kunkun

God damn, that makes so much sense. I did my pn09 before I knew about the skip. Afterwards I just looked the skip on UV and thought "that's kinda cute but not really useful" but didn't think how good it'd be on nightmare. All those times I got blasted to the pit by mancubi, for nothing!

Funnily enough, I was just thinking about 10pn since I'm lazy and can't be bothered to learn doom2 properly atm. Have you figured out something classy for map09? From doing nightmare with saves I remember map04 was kinda doable with lots of rockets and luck (like, reasonable amounts of luck). Map05 was surprisingly BS as well because of the hitscan but still semi-reasonable. Of course this was a while back and I didn't really practice it a lot. But from what I remember map09 might be biggest problem in trying this run since it's close to the end and the exit room is such a massive load of bs.

Congratulations on the run zero. Nice to see 30pl get more demos, especially from a new player. Really loved some of the strategies you used, particularly map12 and map15 come to mind. And I already thought getting under 27 was crazy, haha. I just went to reply editor to figure out how this worked. Apparently GF1 tics don't do anything when facing south against a perpendicular wall so when you are in the gliding position in say map09 you need at least two movement (GF2) to get closer to the gap. Strafing with mouse makes this easy because mouse strafe tics are always a multiplier of 2, so instead of doing GF1 to rech the gap you do SR2 or SL2 to reach it. Ofc if you can get it consistent with just vertical movement that doesn't matter. Probably need slightly bigger moves in the beginning since you can be in the glide position while still being relatively far from the gap and it'll take ages to reach it with just SR2/GF2 tics. I should probably necro that glide thread... and also have figured this out earlier. edit: As far as why it doesn't always work, it's very easy to go past the gap. When at one fraction of a map unit from the gap, even a GF4 tic is too much and you go past it. GF3 seemed to work though. That makes the mouse strafing method kinda bad afterall since there's less leeway.

Congratulations man, this is really good. Now you can call me all the awful things you ever want. I'm surprised theres still room for improvement and even more surprised you're actually going to go for it.

At least in my experience all versions of dosbox have slight but noticable input lag. Very annoying, feels slightly like "ice physics" or something. Especially with older dosbox versions I also got frame and input drops all the time, newer versions are much better though.

Did you just bash your head on the bars until you got through or is there some trick for that? I remember spending too much time trying to figure out that glide.

Reason I thought death exits were not allowed was because Vile actually said so in his ep2 run comments. Doesn't specify which trick but I just assumed it was the most obvious one. Cool to learn these little things about compet-n history.

You should probably add a mention that dimes 30pl2807 uses map17 suicide exit since it technically makes it a different category (it wasn't allowed in compet-n rules, rest of the non-tas 30pl runs don't use that route).

Grats on the run dime. I'm not sure if sub 28 is even going to be worth the grind unless there's some new strats found. One small thing that might help is getting the backpack at the beginning of map19 since otherwise you end up missing bunch of plasma pickups due to being capped at 300. Here's some old junk I recorded a while ago. Outside of ep1 seems like no one has beaten these yet so might as well post. Pl ep1 in 8:40 Pl ep2 in 8:26 Pl ep3 in 11:00 plepisodes.zip

I will say I'm going to be mad as fuck if you leave the run at that. Especially for SDA you should use the map17 death exit and aim for at least sub 28. Sadly I don't think I can really play anymore because I started getting carpal tunnel problems during the last grind. That 29:30 is probably the last run for me so if you just want the record you can just have it without anyone kicking you in the ass to improve it. On map28 you can avoid the second teleporters (in the room with the possible linedef skip) by only firing while standing on water by the way. I also still think your map30 setup is silly, you should "always" get at most two cycle.

You can't beat bumper car doom by more than one second? Jokes aside, grats on the run. I will say that I was expecting a real improvement though, lol.

Really nice, I've been waiting for someone to post a demo of this. I know Kubelwagon did ep2 with the void glide but only uploaded on youtube. That run had a much sloppier m8 as well.

Interesting read and the routes made a lot of sense at least to me, thanks for acutally posting that.

Could you actually point out some of those flaws? Then your critique would be useful while now you're just kinda being a dick.

Yet another plutonia run, this time finally under 30 mins. My goal was to get under 29 so still not very happy with this but shit happens I guess. I'll upload with a .txt on compet-n later in case you want to put that version on dsda instead. 30pl2930.zip

Plutonia movie in 30:44 Third Plutonia movie. Probably at around 3000 attempts by now, heh. After that ep3 run I tried to polish some strats and ended up with this. First 20 levels go really well, over 2:30 faster than the compet-n run. Then all goes to shit but I still end up under 31. Obviously the part I mess up is the part I practised the most lately. First 10 maps are 2 seconds faster than the ep1 record. 30pl3044.zip

Plutonia ep3 in 11:38 I had to see if that glide was viable in ep runs. Apparently it is. Pretty sloppy but I'm kinda rusty. There are demos in all kinds of difficulties on DSDA, vdgg did a mm2 skill3 run and doom2 has mostly episode and full runs on all skills. I'm sure there's lots of others, especially in movie categories. They're always listed as "other". There's much dumber stuff on DSDA than skill 1 or 2 runs (check out Beginners doom ep1 ballerina run...) 1138pl21.zip

Stuff I was very wrong about (so far): It IS possible to get SR2/SL2 tics with autorun on. I don't know where I got the idea running+mouse strafe always gave strafe50 tics. Aleksander Nikulins 30pl TAS has a south-north glide in map13. For some reason I thought that was west-east. After not very extensive research I have concluded west-east and south-north are equally BS. I managed to do that glide with mouse movement and lots of idmypos-ing but it took a while. Definitely not something that's viable in a run. Map16 glide would be much easier from the other side of the pillar if the wall was on the left instead of right side. Manual glides as I know them seem to rely on approaching the gap from left as that's the direction you go to when running against a wall. xepop: I had heard rumours about pressing three keys at the same time being really hard... and speaking of map02 in 12s is that movie ever getting finished :) Cacatou, I tried that by going to the gap in map16 and facing east + turning one notch left, then running or walking forward. I couldn't really get either to work, usually I got stuck at whatever coordinates closeish to the gap. Same thing with different angles. Sometimes it did work but even then I didn't find it exactly fast or reliable. Not sure if I understood you correctly though. Is this method something you'd use in a 30uv run?

This isn't really a speedrunning thread but compet-n is probably the only reason people use vanilla .exes these days so might as well post this here. Which release of dosbox and what kind of settings does everyone use for it? So far I've only tried the one that came with steam release which was really bad for some reason and SVN-daum which is ok most of the time. Sometimes it'll suddenly start dropping frames like crazy which really blows because it pretty much kills the run. The controls are also slightly worse than on windows ports (especially mouse) but I'm not sure if that's just how it worked back in the day. I've tried messing with different cpu cycle and emulation settings with no luck. Might just be my computer being awful (this) though.

Here's a loooong beta version of a glide tutorial I wrote in case someone new to the game wants to figure out how this stuff works without wading through billion doomworld posts in random threads. It's probably more confusing than helpful though so read at your own risk. Would probably be more helpful with video tutorials but oh well. Chances are there's also tons of errors and typos. Normally in doom, you can not go through a 32 unit wide gap. However, as doomguy is exactly 32x32 map units in size, with perfect positioning, luck, tons of practice and some arcane voodoo magics it's possible to squeeze through a gap of that size. That is called a "glide". Often very useful in speedrunning because it lets you skip large parts of levels. Glides work very differently depending on what sourceport and compatibility level you use. I remember speding over an hour wondering why I couldn't do doom2 map16 glide on prboom-plus then realising I had it on some weird complevel. I'd imagine especially the sourceports with freelook and whatnot will be very different from vanilla compatible stuff. I, and I guess most people that have put work into glides, only really have experience with glides in vanilla compatible sourceports (doom.exe, doom2.exe, chocolate-doom, prboom-plus with complevel 2/3/4). Since glides are mostly a speedrunning thing, they are usually done while using the built in demo recording (-record demoname). Doing glides with -record makes a HUGE difference because it basically reduces the amount of directions you can face, making finding the correct direction easier (or even possible). http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Turning_resolution_is_lowered_when_recording_demos for a better explanation. While there are demo formats which remove this problem/feature, I don't think I've ever seen a vanilla demo without the reduced turning resolution. Demos recorded for .wads that can't even be played on the vanilla .exes usually use this reduced turning resolution! For some reason "longtic" demos never caught on. Some ports have command line options for using the lower turning resolution without having to record a demo, like prboom-plus with -shorttics. What seems to makes glides happen is getting in the correct fraction of a map unit. Checking coordinates with idmypos it seems like whenever I get inside the gap either x or y coordinate is 0x****0000, depending on which direction the glide is in. Obviously you can't visually judge if you're in the correct position or not. Best you can do is figure out when you're fairly close (less than one whole map unit from the gap close). Then you need to find a way of very slowly inching yourself towards the gap, which is probably best done with mouse movement - either playing with vertical mouse movement on (better for glides, at least on vanilla/chocolate doom) or using strafing with the mouse (much less consistent on vanilla/chocolate). Difference between mouse strafing and vertical movement is that vertical movement can give you the smallest movement tic there is (GF1 if you check on a replay editor) while smallest movement tic mouse strafing can give is SR2 / SL2 (if you don't know what these mean, bigger number kinda makes you go faster... but doom movement code is very weird and there's a lot more to it than that). The bigger movement tics can lead to getting stuck one fraction of a map unit from the glide spot which will require repositioning, but more about that later. Now, with prboom-plus it's possible to get SR1 and SL1 tics with mouse strafing which is a massive advantage for anyone playing without vertical mouse move. It is still "vanilla compatible" in the sense that it will play back on original .exe, but as far as I know getting SR1/SL1 input with original .exes or chocolate doom is impossible. For doing any of this stuff you'll want to have autorun off. In some ports it's a toggle and that's probably nice and all, but vanilla doesn't have that luxury. There having autorun off means you'll have to almost constantly hold down run. With run on, mouse strafing will always give SR50/SL50 tics which makes these tricks impossible. Not running also seems to increase the probability of getting "stuck" when positioning for east-west glides. tl;dr walking is good running is bad Easiest category of glides is the guided glides, where you can use a wall for positioning yourself in front of the gap. For practice I'd recommend using vertical movement, even if you're not going to use it in a real run it should make learning how this works much easier. Doom2 map16 has one of the better known ones. Loopers 30uv run has a good example of this that isn't terribly fast, he does it with strafing though. Looper and xepop actually used a weird way of strafing towards the wall with keyboard and away from the wall with mouse at the same time but that's just weird, I'll let them explain that crap themselves if they show up in this thread. Individual level compet-n records are usually crazy flukes where the glides are done almost instantly and it's hard to even tell what happened in them. Just run against the "corner" of the black wall and the red skull pillar. Then facing directly east (this is where that reduced turning accuracy comes in handy) just move forward with mouse very slightly. For strafing you'll obviously want to face north or south, otherwise it's the same, just with the possible difficulty of not having as precise movement as with vertical movement. Note that you need to do this glide from east to west, gliding from the other side of the pillar from south to north is much more difficult. Why? Who knows. Doing glides, even guided ones, from south to north is obscenely difficult for some reason. Sort of second easiest category is east to west guideless glide, as popularised by I guess cack_handed. In these positioning is slightly trickier as you can't use a wall to get close the gap, you need to use the gap itself. His pn08-019 demo ( doomedsda.us/lmps/946/3/pn08-019.zip ) has a text file explaining his method. Personally I do these by facing west, going to the right side of the gap, and then sloooowly moving left towards the gap by walking against the wall. Normal keyboard walk is fine, no need to mess with mouse movement yet. With luck, you'll end up stopping right at the gap (or with even more luck getting instantly through it, that's fairly rare though) - not running seems to increase chances of getting "stuck" like this. Then just push through with mouse movement. This is where novert makes a huge difference because it's possible to get stuck one fraction of a map unit from the glide spot (at 0x****0001 or something) when trying to get through with strafing, unless you're using prboom which changes the way mouse strafing works (even on complevel 2/3/4). If you get stuck like that reposition and try again. Vertical movement will never get you stuck like that which is why it makes learning this stuff easier, no need to worry about the completely random factor in strafe glides. Last and maybe not least is the north to south guideless glide mostly done by yours truly I guess. The positioning for these is fairly similar to east-west ones, but you will almost never get stuck at the gap when running against the wall like in east-west situation. Visually the correct glide spot looks the "same" as east-west, there will be one column of pixels on the left side of the screen from the wall on the left side of the gap showing (assuming vanilla FOV, things will look weird if you play on some widescreen resolution with prboom). However you can't judge this only visually, there's a timing element in knowing when to stop after seeing that column of pixels show up. Then by walking back and forth using keyboard with a certain rhythm you can glide through the gap sooner or later... Note that this method is doable even with keyboard only play, mouse isn't used at all. I'm not 100% on how this even works but I believe there's timing in both knowing when to stop when positioning (so you're close to the glide spot) and to the rhythm in doing the back/forward movement. It's a very weird trick that took a lot of practise for me to figure out and I still can't pull it off that consistently. Guideless glides in other directions just don't seem to happen manually. Same thing with guideless glides with normal turning. I've done at least east-west and west-east with longtics so it's possible, but it wasn't very fast. I haven't really put much thought into that though since demos are shorttics anyway. Some TASes also do west-east guideless glides, but I can't think of any TAS that did a south-north guideless glide. Aleksander Nikulin's Hell Revealed TAS had at least one guided south-north glide though. After you first figure out guided glides which, assuming they work at all non TAS, work the same for every direction, good place for getting used to how guideless glides in different directions work is plutonia map19 exit room as you can glide to the exit teleporter from every direction.

Thanks for the replies, in the end 0.74 main release of dosbox did the trick. Only setting I changed from default was scaler to normal3x, switching anything else seems to be a bad idea. Especially switching output mode or using aspect ratio correction. So now things are looking pretty wide but guess I can deal with it if I play in a window.

You can just use novert for disabling forwards/backwards mouse movement.

Sounds like the infamous intercepts overflow / all ghosts bug. Not exactly known why it happens, just that it's more consistent on some maps than others and I think length of linedef 0 had something to do with it. Can also be triggered by shooting over lots of linedefs/things with hitscan weapons apparently. I remember getting it once in doom2 map26 and twice in plutonia map12 (after shooting the hell knight at the beginning with ssg, both times at the same place). No demos sadly, because it crashed the version of dosbox I was using at the time. http://doomedsda.us/wad198.html has a couple freaky looking speedruns with this glitch. I think kimoxvirus had a doom2 map02 demo with it as well, just can't find it atm. There's also one for doom e1m3 by Donatas Tamonis. Not usually very useful since unless there's a death exit (say doom e1m8, plutonia map11 or the aforementioned blacktwr.wad) you're stuck.

Weird run I got while taking a break from uni crap. Now I really feel like I should push this under 30 but not sure how much effort that'd take. 30pl3146.zip

More crap. One can only wonder how long was spent recording this and the earlier demo... Plutonia Map03 Nightmare 1:11.86 plutonia_nightmare_map03_0011186.zip