Sandstormer

I haven't done much modding lately due to not having much free time. I looked in the forums and found this interesting thread, so please forgive me if it is considered too old to bump. May I offer some rambling insights and opinions as a 3D artist who has made models for Doom? Most of what has been said in this thread is spot on. My personal experience and frustrations wrt working with models in Doom has led me to make the very same observations that have been pointed out in previous posts. I think that the biggest roadblocks are the technical hurdle, the general attitude towards 3D models within the community, and the inescapable fact that 3D models just don't mesh well with the general aesthetic of Doom. The technology hurdle is not to be underestimated. While it is true that a poor artist blames the tool, it is also true that there are only so many hours in a day. I hit a wall while making my own models. It is not so much that it is difficult (the more you model, the easier it gets) as it is discouraging knowing that the technology that you are working with is not going to be able to handle the load to the point that a large number of people would be able to actually enjoy what you are working on. There is no way that I would be able to make the quality of models that I want to make and have them run adequately in a Doom engine. Trust me - I've already tried with multiple sourceports. Then I scaled back the project. Then I scaled back even more. I scaled back so much that what I produced ended up looking like pure and utter crap (just take a look at some of my WIP screenshots over on the 3DGE forum). So then there is the question of do I want to soldier on and push through just to release pure and utter crap that will only appeal to a small niche within the Doom community? Not at all. I've already made that mistake too, and I don't intend on repeating it. I'd rather save people the bandwith and avoid more angry messages in my email. You could make 3D models that are of the same fidelity of Quake I's models, but how many people within the Doom community consider Quake I's models to be of high quality? Then there is the whole "The Hell That's Coming" TC that is already available for Quake I, so it would be kind of redundant. I think that there is a difference between having the ability to support 3D models, and having the ability to actually do so at a level that the common 3D artist and player alike would find to be worth their while. The Doom community has achieved the former, but we are still a ways away from the latter, assuming that it is even a shared goal within the community to begin with. I've talked to other modelers and asked them if they would ever attempt to make models for Doom. The answer is usually somewhere between "Hell no!" and "Stop wasting my time with nonsense!" Another interesting yet not uncommon response is "Why would I do that when there are free, open source 3D engines out there that easily outperform anything that you'll currently find in the Doom community?" I've sat down and watched youtube videos of Doom's 3D models with some of them, and while they agree that the overall quality could be much better, a look at the comment section is usually enough to put them off from committing the time and resources necessary to make decent models for Doom. The general impression is that no matter how good your work is, the community will automatically reject it due to the fact that it is 3D models and not sprites. That may not be true across the board, but that is definitely the impression that I get from talking to other 3D artists. Then there is the point that 3D models look completely out of place in Doom. They just don't have the look, movement, or feel of Doom. I've thrown away tons of 3D models that I've actually received many compliments on. They looked and moved pretty decently, but they didn't have that Doom look and feel to them. they were too "natural". A lot of Doom's art is implied, such as the details on the decorations and monsters, and the animations in-game. 3D models show everything from every angle, so you don't have the luxury of being able to let the player "fill in the blanks", so to speak. You're practically forced to take creative liberties, and those creative liberties are exactly what contribute to most 3D model packs not looking or feeling like Doom. A 3D model would look too "natural" and convey too much direct information compared to the implied nature of Doom's art. I've been told that the Duke HRP doesn't have this problem and it is based directly on Duke 3D sprites. However, look at how much larger and more detailed the Duke 3D sprites are compared to Doom's. There is a lot more for an artist to work with. I can look at a pig cop and pick out nearly every single detail on it. That is crucial to an artist who is trying to translate something from one medium (sprites) to another medium (polygons) while keeping the latter as faithful as possible to the former. So, I guess that's the end of my ramble. If you read this far, then thanks. As an aside, I figure that it is more productive for me to focus on making my own sprite-based gameplay mod not suck so badly (Doom R3loaded), as opposed to trying to push a model pack that most don't even seem to want (or love to threaten me over, via email, for daring to put those "ugly 3D models" into "Their" game).

Oh, what the hell. Updated again with new download link in the OP.

First update, Doom R3loaded v1.1 New link in the OP. - Added new weapon sprites for the pistol, plasma gun, and BFG. The pistol has been replaced with the rifle, but the weapon's strength and behavior remain unchanged. - Added simple muzzle smoke to all weapons including enemy weapons. - Added ejecting bullet and shell casings to all weapons including enemy weapons. - Added a couple of shootable zombie decorations (the twitching blokes). - Changed the BOBBING property for the player and weapons so that they follow PSX Doom's view bob and weapon bob more closely. - Changed the SWAYING property for all weapons so that they follow PSX Doom's weapon sway more closely. - Changed the dynamic lighting so that it is a little closer to PSX Doom's lighting. This meant switching from quadratic to constant lighting, removing dynamic lights from all pick ups, and expanding the dynamic lights on all applicable scenery objects so that the colored lighting has a definite source and is not there randomly. - Changed the lost soul's HP by lowering it so that the lost soul can now be one-shot with the shotgun. - Changed the spectre's properties so that it now renders transparent just like its counterpart in PSX Doom.

Apologies. Thread title updated.

Doom R3loaded v1.2 4/29/15 Started out as a stylish wad in the vein of Smooth Doom and Beautiful Doom, but I decided to start all over on it and go in a different direction. The PSX sounds are still in the WAD, but I've made a few gameplay changes mostly in the form of slight alterations and additions to monster behavior. There are also some simple RNG elements such as different armors and new enemies spawning in place of old enemies. I've redid the gore system to make it is less sloppy and obtrusive, and I got rid of the shell/bullet casings due to it being so annoying to have so many things flying around on the screen. I've also restored the weapon graphics with the exception of the rifle and the chainsaw. Perhaps the most obvious change is that Doom Guy is now Doom Girl. I've used the rifle major sprites from Immoral Conduct for the time being, but I plan on making original female marine sprites. We're just going to have to live with the lip stick, especially since it matches the status bar face. Her gib graphic is a resized version of the ROTT gib state with the Doom palette applied to it. More details in the changelog. Download link is at the bottom of the post. ***Changelog (v1.2)*** - Replaced Doom Guy with Doom Girl. New sprites, sounds, and status bar face graphics have been added. - Added alternate rifle sprite with bayonet. Bayonet is now the default melee attack. - Added a slight buff to the rifle so that it is stronger than the pistol that it has replaced, but still weaker than the shotgun. - The rifle now fires with similar timing and cadence to the zombie's rifle. This makes the player's rifle and the zombie's rifle more consistent. - Added new shotgun sprites from Don's Challenge by Cory Whittle per the readme.txt file. - Replaced original chainsaw with Doom 64 chainsaw. - Restored original sprites for the remaining weapons. - Added new super armor. It is yellow and it absorbs up to 75% of all damage. It has a 10% chance of spawning in place of green armor. - Added new ultra armor. It is red and it absorbs up to 90% of all damage. It has a 10% chance of spawning in place of blue armor. - Replaced default light amplification goggle graphics with 3DGE's own light amplification goggle graphics. - Removed all shell and bullet casings. - Removed simple muzzle smoke. - Replaced simple smoke trails with Hexen smoke effects. - Added smoke effects to all explosions including the lost soul and pain elemental death states. They were not added to fireball death states. - Added the nightmare imp. He is a stronger, faster, and translucent version of the imp. He has a 50% chance of spawning in place of an imp. - Added the gun shade. He is a "fuzzy" flying chaingunner torso, and he fills the niche of flying hitscanner. He has a 10% chance of spawning in place of a chaingunner. - Added a new bayonet attack for the Zombieman. It is deceptively powerful, so be careful at close range. - Increased the speed of the pinky demon's attack so that he has a higher chance of landing a hit. This also allows him to really devastate the player at close range as well as not look so pathetic when he tries to bite another monster. - Made the hell knight translucent to further differentiate him from the baron of hell. - The lost soul now glows red to match the flames around him. - The pain elemental now glows orange to match the fire in his mouth. - The pain elemental now has a melee attack at close range that does the same amount of damage as the cacodemon's close range attack. - The mancubus now has a 10% chance of ripping ass and leaving a fart cloud. - Removed the flying blood and replaced it with floating blood. It is the original blood graphic, but it remains in the air instead of falling to the ground. - Removed all alternate death sprites and replaced them with randomly mirrored vanilla death sprites. - Added "skid marks" to all gibbed corpses. Gibbing a corpse leaves several pools of blood as it slides across the ground. - Added new custom crush graphics. Each monster has a unique crush graphic that contains a recognizable body part from that monster. These are my own original graphics that I threw together. Installation: - I recommend downloading and using the latest version of Doom Launcher. Many people complain about 3DGE's weird behavior when dragging and dropping files onto the executable. I've experienced this, as well. Doom Launcher alleviates most if not all of these issues. Download and instructions at: https://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-general/69346-doom-launcher-doom-frontend-database-v2-2-1/ Starters: - Download the latest version of 3DGE at: http://sourceforge.net/projects/edge2/ - Buy the Doom series DRM-Free at: http://www.gog.com/game/doom_ii_final_doom - Hard times? Strapped for cash? Then download and support the Freedoom project at: https://freedoom.github.io/download.html Tech Talk: It is a very good idea to make sure that your computer has the recommended specs that Coraline listed on the 3DGE Wiki: - Pentium-class 1.0 GHz CPU or faster (1.2 GHz recommended for modern modifications). - 128MB RAM (512MB RAM recommended). - Hardware accelerated 3D card with OpenGL drivers. Should be at least a Voodoo, but you'll need better, especially if you want to use dynamic lights along with the models. Future Plans: - Make original female marine sprites. - Add more 3DGE-isms. Credits: - Sprites Apogee ID Software Rogue Entertainment Cory Whittle Lynn Forest - Sounds ID Software ULTRA_LASER Aubrey Hodges Soundbible.com Screenshots: Download Link (1.9 MB): https://www.dropbox.com/s/j08njqnl0dxwrto/Doom%20R3loaded%20v1.2.7z?dl=0

Updated with panoramic sky boxes. New link in the OP.

@Jayextee: I added an alternate download that uses .ZIP format. I couldn't find any issues with the .RAR download. I asked several others to download it and test it, and they couldn't find any either. Unfortunately, the extra link has a larger download size than the .RAR link. Hopefully the new link works better for you. @Glaice: The sky boxes are part of the AltDHTP pack that the Doomenator put together. I'm planning on making new panoramic sky boxes and putting them into the next update. I try to keep everything as close to vanilla as possible, so expect them to follow the original sky boxes more closely. @ducon: I'm assuming that you're downloading the latest version of 3DGE from sourceforge (updated the link, btw). I'm not in charge of that page, and I don't know of any other pages that include a direct link, so I can't help you there.

@Jay: I'm looking into it at the moment. @Kurikai: My sentiments, exactly. 7Zip/PK3 support for 3DGE is in the works, but I'm stuck using .wad format for the time being. It's a pain, but it's all that I've got to work with at the moment. Github could definitely be in the future. I'm currently out on assignment in the middle of the desert for my job (gotta love work, yeah?), and my internet is spotty at best. I'll fix and update the pack as soon as possible.

Noted and updated.

Updated with much smaller download size (230 MB). New link in the OP.

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I've had to do things very differently with 3DGE due to the engine not supporting PK3 and a directory structure as of yet. There should be a folder with the main textures shared throughout all of the iwads, then there should be a separate folder for each iwad that contains textures that only appear in that particular iwad. I've had to put the main textures into each individual texture wad, and that increases the size enormously. Trust me - it made me consider scrapping the whole project altogether because it is unacceptably large. Other 3DGE users have emailed me personally and told me that they would really like to see this thing released, so here it is. PK3 support is planned for a future point release of 3DGE, so I will eventually be able to put this texture pack together properly. @Da Werecat: I'm updating the model pack little by little. This latest version was more about fixing bugs and optimizing while putting in models that are a little more up to date. I chose that shotgun because it is the one that looks the most like the vanilla version, even though it may not be the most popular one to use. I kinda want to keep things as close to vanilla as possible with this pack.

Finally! 3DGE now has a version of the DHTP to call its own. With full permission from the Doomenator himself, and with proper credits to all of the authors who made this possible to begin with, I humbly present the 3HTP. Installation: - Unzip the contents to your 3DGE directory. Load the 3HTP Base Flats wad and the 3HTP Base Textures wad, and then load one of the proper HD texture wads according to which iwad is being used. Bugs and Issues: - There is no way to solve the STEP1/STEP2 issue at this time, so those two steps will act weirdly at times. - A very small number of textures are missing, but they will be added later. Starters: - Download 3DGE 2.0.2 at: http://sourceforge.net/projects/edge2/files/latest/download?source=files - Buy Doom Classic Complete at: http://store.steampowered.com/sub/18397/ - Hard times? Strapped for cash? Then download and support the Freedoom project at: https://freedoom.github.io/download.html Tech Talk: It is a very good idea to make sure that your computer has the recommended specs that Coraline has listed on the 3DGE Wiki: - Pentium-class 1.0 GHz CPU or faster (1.2 GHz recommended for modern modifications). - 128MB RAM (512MB RAM recommended). - Hardware accelerated 3D card with OpenGL drivers. Should be at least a Voodoo, but you'll need better, especially if you want to use dynamic lights along with the models. Future Plans: - Add missing textures. - More bug fixes. - More optimization. Original Readme: === Credits: ID software: http://www.idsoftware.com/ Chilvence: chilvence@gmail.com http://www.stateoftheworld.eclipse.co.uk KuriKai: eunbolt@gmail.com Freelanzer : http://freelanzer.com freelanzer@gmail.com Tea Monster: Tea_monster@yahoo.com Harry: harryboam@hotmail.com esselfortium: sl4@mac.com DaniJ: danij@dengine.net http://modelyard.newdoom.com Cpt Howdy: malfunction@accessky.net Freedom: http://freedoom.sourceforge.net FAK: flaviofak@gmail.com Reinchard: Reinchard2@gmail.com MR_Rocket: mrrocket2001@hotmail.com Jive: jean.yves.delpech@gmail.com Cpt Howdy: malfunction@accessky.net Fredrik Johansson: http://fredrik.mancubus.net/ Zimond: ben.maas@gmx.de Mr.Chris: icedragonchris@hotmail.com Cheprasov Andrey: Video-Ripper@Yandex.RU / Satan-213@yandex.RU Coen Zimmerman: tabun@planetquake.com http://www.tabun.nl/index.php De-M-oN: de-m-on@gmx.de MikeNick2: nickecky@web.de lostless: lostless@gmail.com Rygel: unknown_ivy@hotmail.com KMan: kman@polycount.com Necro: necrodome@gmx.net Saint : http://www.saintshaven.com/ Tabun: http://www.wireheadstudios.org/generations/ Slide: http://slide.newdoom.com Gamedude : brad_brake@yahoo.com John Doe: Envid: Missacula: Dorian gray: Zabnat: LStanley: -RightField-: Ravenlot: PickleBro: Mr.Hat: cheps: Zaom: Moon[Drunk]: mmnpsrsoskl: piz: Skitso: Besli: Kirk Barnes & KriGSSv1N: Jim and Chris Waurzyniak: * KMan: kman@polycount.com / http://www.polycount.com/cottages/kman/ * Simon D Howard: sdh300@ecs.soton.ac.uk / http://freedoom.sourceforge.net * mmnpsrsoskl: mmnpsrsoskl@hotmail.com * Mr.Chris: chrisdragon425@yahoo.com * Michael D他fler: necrodome@gmx.net * Alexander Hvostov: alex@aoi.dyndns.org * WWS: jarik@chnpp.atom.gov.ua * DoomKid: doomkid@swbell.net * Alexey: piz@pochtamt.ru * Albert: A.Werfhorst@Chello.nl * redM: CHARGER@t-online.de * Carol: carollauer@earthlink.net * Reinhard: RUnterreitmayer@aol.com === Some source: http://www.freefoto.com http://www.mayang.com/ http://freedoom.sourceforge.net http://www.textureking.com http://www.filterforge.com === Software: Adobe Photoshop Filter Forge IrfanView Paint GIMP Screenies: Download Link (212 MB): http://www.mediafire.com/download/j0hhmdrz73ftcl5/3HTP+%287z%29.7z

That's awesome, and it's good to know. I'm still trying to figure out the plasma rifle situation, myself.

Ok, show me where in my post that I mentioned anything about COD or COD style FPS? At no point did I say that I want Doom to fucking be like COD or the millions of COD clones out there. The statement was a reference to the fact that they are willing to add a few new things to spice up the gameplay like fatalities, double jumping, and the ability to climb stuff. They didn't say, "Oh no, we can't add that because it wasn't in vanilla." Don't think for one second that I'm defending the bog standard COD style cookie cutter BS that currently permeates the market. No, my statement alludes to the fact that they are trying out new things with this latest entry instead of simply mailing it in and relying on the Doom name to sell the game. Stop assuming. In multiple posts on this forum I have reiterated the fact that I prefer classic Doom over the more modern variations, so you'll have to apply that stereotype to someone else. The line of reasoning is something that you are blindly attributing to me that clearly isn't there (why would I play and mod a game from 1993 if I preferred modern style? and for the record, I hate COD). Again, where in my post did I state that anyone who reacts badly to something new is doing it just because it is new? I didn't even mention anything about anyone reacting badly to begin with. A general statement praising the fact that they are willing to add a few new things to the latest game that weren't in the old school game instead of just simply mailing it in and relying on the name "Doom" to sell the game, and you launch into some weird ass rant about Call of Duty (I hate even typing that name), the gaming market circa 1993-2001, and people being afraid of change. That points at a much deeper issue within you, not me.

No problem! That was more of a general list for people who think that Quake one doesn't have any good maps available. Abyss of Pandemonium would be closer to the original set.