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Everything posted by Killer5

  1. Why are slaughter maps looked down upon?

    @Agentbromsnor As was mentioned in my previous post and the one I just made. It is unavoidable. And a problem in some I think. Don't troll me. The point is to show to the people who don't play slaughtermaps that there is underlying strategy to circlestrafe.
  2. Why are slaughter maps looked down upon?

    Wall of text. tl;dr: there is way more to simple circle strafing than meets the eye most of the time. I don't know how else to deal with generalized comments except by using specific examples. Oooooi. This is probably the last post I am ever making in a topic like this. Just like when I used to be part of the L4D2 community.. after you see enough of the same shit over and over from different people you realize there is no point in even contributing.. I never learn I guess. So as was pointed out by MajorRawne there are many slaughtermaps on youtube where circlestrafing is a big part of the gameplay. Yep. Circlestrafing is a big part of slaughter gameplay.. especially in larger maps (large arenas = a lot of cleanup pretty much 100% of the time). This is basically unavoidable. Since you mention demos of over hours in length I assume you are looking at chillax tas runs, holy hell, untitled2 run. Can confirm that you will find ample circlestrafing in these wads. I haven't ran any of those wads however. So I'll mention some runs I have completed in other wads that generally end up with ample circle strafing and why they are actually interesting to me (stuff a casual viewer wont pick up on). Sunder Map11: I'll discuss two parts of this map which probably look like fuck all circle strafe or standing and doing nothing to the average viewer. First is the 3 switch encounter just prior to the platforming bit. The 3 switch encounter relies on manipulating hordes around the cybs so you get maximum infighting while you do the maximum amount of dps. The average viewer will watch me aggro some revs, run by some more revs/cyb, hit a switch, then end up in quite a large open area in comparison to the rest and sit in a specific spot while looking at a cyb with more revs while spamming rockets. I am spamming rockets from a specific spot in order to make sure that the cyb I started the infight with from earlier sits as close as possible to all of the revs for the longest period of time. After doing this for a bit I end up cleaning up the cyb and revs in the area I am currently in with bfg. Notice that basically everything else it dead. This is all planned before hand. Sure. The player could just run around in circles forever but then again that is just another way (very inefficient way) of beating the slaughter encounter. Next is the final large fight in the green area because this fight im sure looks like nothing but mindless circle strafe. And you are right for the most part. However there is still strategy at work here managing the horde. There are tons of viles that eventually spawn in the center structure which the player has to deal with if the player is going to max the map. So the obvious idea here is to keep all of the monsters out of that area. The previous demos end up with monsters in that central area. Their strategies for circle strafe were bad because they ended up with crap in an area where it makes life farm more difficult than normal. I modified the strafing pattern which keeps monsters out of that area 100% of the time allowing for easy gibbage of the viles. So yeah.. there is circle strafing but it has a purpose. You still have to deal with the boss monsters here after most of the shit dies. I have never been fucked royally by masterminds as many times as during this fight. So in that way this fight is very significant to me. Stardate 20x7 Map09: The two final parts are basically the only bits where you will see circle strafing and bfg spam. I don't want to go into insane specifics on my routes in the two final fights because they are insanely choreographed. I don't know why I am picking this map because it is so difficult for me to break this shit down in a timely fashion. 2nd to last fight relies on dealing with a massive rev horde while avoiding mass HKs and mass area denial viles. This fight devolves into circle strafe just like every other massive slaughter fight but only after you deal with loads of shit requiring very specific movements in order to pull off consistently. If you watch my demo nothing you see is random in this fight. Anyways the fight begins.. you will see me run around a set of pillars twice after initially running by the revs after the huge wall lowers. This is to setup the timing for when I start attacking with bfg. Fighting the revs on the right side of the arena requires an interesting movement pattern I devised in order to deal the max dps while still avoiding HK fireballs (you really can't afford to waste megas on this fight because the more megas used outside of the plan = vast rng added to fight = incredibly low % of completion). After that you cut by the revs on the other side. This is where you need to pay attention to what the viles are doing. If you get targeted you either need to hide behind pillars or rush over by the wall you see me stand by. If you get knocked up the steps to far at any time during this stage it is game over because you release 10+ AVs. So while dealing with this AV shit you also are running into the rev horde in order to pick up more hp while maximizing dps. You run back around the way you came and sit where the initial bfg barrage began at the start careful not to waste too much bfg ammo here because at this point you will most likely be low (not circlestrafing yet.. you are still having to deal with the horde in a specific way here unless you want to die). You sit in this spot and slowly move towards the rear of the arena. This pulls the revs towards you so you can get enough space to run back around the way you just came from again (still not circlestrafing). Finally after completing this final rush back to the other side you are able to start circle strafing in the fight (you can still die from AVs). This shit took quite a bit of practice in order to get down consistently. And it is funny how this fight even caused someone to claim that it is 'impossible' in the 20x7 thread. So you are welcome to try circle strafing all you want. The final fight.. I'm going to spare the commentary on this one to save my fingers because again nothing I do is random in this fight and the description will end up even fucking longer than the previous. One notable thing that I find fun about this fight though is that I 100% always use the automap during this fight. There are two necessary ammo/hp stashes in specific areas. Because the arena is perfectly symmetrical I need to be sure of my location in the arena. So this fight will always be unique in comparison to other things I have ran because I have to use the automap while avoiding shit in order to be sure of my next move. I'll be glad to get even more specific on pretty much every other map I have ran or played btw. I assume that you havent ever played any slaughtermaps because you were asking for people to name slaughter maps that dont have bfg in them (lol). At least you proved to be the poster child for my post a few pages back regarding people generalizing things about slaughter when they know absolutely nothing about the subject matter.
  3. OSCILLATION, a 9 map boom wad [On Idgames]

    Hello. Here are more fdas. Map04: The ysk fight. This fight seems incredibly underwhelming. Especially when compared to the final fight with the lifts that lower more and more monsters. Could use more viles here or something. You will see me go out of my way just to circle strafe around without any worry of dying. Switch prior to bsk. I simply ran out removing any threat from this encounter. Should probably lock the player in if you don't want them doing what I did in the fda. PE at the start. This is somewhat of a pet peeve of mine. There are powerups on the ground around a PE at the start and even more powerups if you were to kill the zombies around the area with the PE. Lost souls get jammed up when flying over powerups. I suggest placing the powerups differently in order to avoid this and make the PE more effective. Otherwise I would normally suggest using a different type of monster. Map05: Nothing really comes to mind regarding this map. Map06: Void area prior to final fight with 3 cybs. I was really enjoying myself here.. until I realized that all of my careful movement was negated by having impassible lines preventing me from falling into the abyss. This is obviously a taste thing and I'm super weird in that I really like pits (especially inescapable stuff). I think being able to fall here would be incredible. 3 cyb fight. So I originally thought that the hitscan was supposed to pull the cybs to the edges so they shoot kinda erratically before I noticed that the cybs just chill outside of the ring. The cybs just kinda chilled out and didn't really do much up against the walls after they got shot (at least I think that is what happened). Still a cool idea though. Edit: I forgot to mention that, although I really enjoyed the area with the light switches, I never really felt like I had to use them because there was nothing that I needed to really avoid when moving around (like.. obstacle wise). Maybe put some obnoxious 32 unit things around this area to make the darkness a bit more threatening. I still enjoyed playing. Once again take anything I say with a grain of salt. fdas (created with prboom+ cl9 with Oscillation_V3.wad): https://www.dropbox.com/s/7y6bjz8em1txp97/Oscillation_v3_fdas_04-06.zip?dl=0
  4. OSCILLATION, a 9 map boom wad [On Idgames]

    Hello. I don't normally play maps like this but people seem to dig these so I figured I'd give em a go. I played the first 3 maps so far but I noticed some things I want to point out. Comments: Map01: At the end with the two switches.. each guarded by 1 chaingunner. After I hit the switch nothing forces me away from where the switch is. I can kill everything safely by sniping it from where the switch is. Not sure what the difficulty is you are aiming for but imo this part would be more engaging if I was forced down from the switches by some other monster. Or just simply pressured a bit more where the switch is located. This part was by far the weakest part of this map imo in comparison to everything thing else. I liked the rest of the map. Map02: Biiiiiiig time cheese at the final fight. I happened to move and avoid a blind rev rocket after jumping down back into the initial area (from raised soulsphere) and noticed a bunch of stuff heading my way. I simply just jumped back down where the blue key switch is located and waited for everything to get close. Easy rocket spam. I suggest triggering this fight after hitting the yk switch and locking the player in to that initial area. Would make that area pretty great I think. Map03: No issues really. Maybe move the spawns of the cacos around at the final bridge fight so the player cant simply sit behind them like I did. Edit: Map03: Or maybe give less cells in the blue key area and force rockets or something on the bridge fight. Could be fun. Whatev like I said I don't normally play maps like these so take anything I say with a grain of salt. Enjoyed them otherwise. fdas (created with prboom+ cl9 with Oscillation_V3.wad): https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ib0ci0g211mvje/Oscillation_v3_fdas.zip?dl=0
  5. Why are slaughter maps looked down upon?

    @GarrettChan As long as your comment is referring to the person trying hntr (and the wad also has difficulties implemented) then I think it is relevant to my comment. That statement was me wondering how someone who doesn't make uv-max demos playing hntr would feel because me being pressured is probably not the same as someone not experienced being pressured. I can't relate to what someone else feels is a grind.
  6. Why are slaughter maps looked down upon?

    I have been keeping an eye on this thread because I was curious what answers people would give with regards to the OP's comment: 'But honestly, what's so bad about these slaughter maps that they're considered to be for "dumb children"?'. I don't consider subjective statements such as 'I don't like them' valid for this topic mentioned by the OP. So far I only see the same descriptions of why people don't like playing slaughter maps. Some are valid complaints in a lot of maps but I don't think they are valid as generalizations (which is normally all I see from people describing slaughter maps). I'll try to use well known slaughter wads for examples in my post. I'm also assuming UV difficulty. 'The first 20% of the fight is exciting, the rest is just circlestrafing and cleaning up the remaining monsters.' - This depends on the type of fight in the wad. I'll use Sunder Map07 and No Chance as examples. Everyone has apparently played Sunder and I have seen enough jokes about No Chance while streaming to assume that everyone has also played it or at least seen it (because this is the internet it is hard for me to assume either in my experience). In Sunder Map07 I'll use the 2nd to last fight as an example. You run in, kill imps while everything else leaves the monster closets then avoid manc fireballs/rev rockets as you run around in circles cleaning up everything. So I think this is valid for the most part (I won't talk about the deaths from people during this fight I have seen from livestreams however so it is still an effective encounter even though it ends up falling into the circle strafe cleanup phase). Now lets switch gears and use the blue key fight from No Chance. Good luck ever circle strafing for 80% of the time in the room with the blue keys. I assume you are save scumming like a madman here if you are trying this. 'All slaughter mappers can do is to spam revenants and cyberdemons. And when you're done with everything, a bunch of arch-viles spawn in the middle and resurrect everything.' - I recently read the Swim With The Whales thread because I thought it would be interesting to check out (I don't really consider this wad slaughter but it was mentioned in this thread so I assume other people do). It was interesting how people were constantly dying to the Mastermind fight in Map02 which consists of hks, PEs, imps, chaingunners, avs, revs, and a Mastermind. 'All the copypasted detail can't hide the fact that the rooms are essentially big boxes with some pillars here and there.' - Im not really sure why detail is even mentioned here.. but the finale of Miasma and the finale of Sunder Map13 come to mind as things which are not copy pasta. I can't really defend a wad like SF2011 however. 'You have to play Doom 24/7 to even have a chance of beating one of them.' - I think there is a lot of truth with regards to this statement for many slaughter wads. The nature of many of the encounters really don't lend themselves well to lower difficulty settings because they would end up looking like the '20% circle strafe' bit even more than they already do. But most of the time this is in relation to the super large scale slaughter wads. I played Combat Shock 2 on hntr recently to learn more about how well known mappers have implemented difficulty settings. I did run into that problem on Map04 for a couple areas.. but I am curious how someone who doesn't record uv-max demos for hard wads would feel. Ended up blasting through the entire wad in a couple hours. Was good fun I think. Other blanket statements such as 'they are boring and tedious' I cant really address. I just assume it isn't the person's thing. I think a LOT of people making these claims don't play slaughter wads at all tbh. Then come making these generalized claims. Which is unfortunate.
  7. Fixed map11. Updated changelog in txt. https://www.dropbox.com/s/xz4a387ighda339/aztec_ruin_v5.zip?dl=0
  8. No-Save November

    Time to revisit Italo Doom? Also Holy Hell saveless would be interesting since I haven't really learned any of that wad. I don't want to attempt to learn untitled2.wad atm.
  9. Dimensions [/idgames]

    Map32 was a bonus map. I made that thing a long time ago for slaughtermax but it ended up becoming a map I started using simply for practice. It was something that I never meant to be released but I have fun on it so I figured it would make a good map for slot 32. Attempting it on UV is a high calling. I never really meant for it to be beaten all at once. I would simply work on specific skills in each area. The yellow key area was always my favorite to beat though. Good luck if you want to keep trying!
  10. The DWmegawad Club plays: Crumpets & Stardate 20X7 & Rush

    @Grain of Salt Damn. Really went all out huh? :P
  11. The DWmegawad Club plays: Crumpets & Stardate 20X7 & Rush

    Map05: So as an aside before talking about the actual map. This map started my obsession with punching cyberdemons, and actually practicing effective techniques in punching cyberdemons. I have been playing zdoom quite a bit lately going through the Mayhem 2017 maps. I cannot stand the changes zdoom has made to the fist. I can punch cybs without even thinking about it. I found you can even circle strafe and simply punch monsters constantly, especially cyberdemons with a tiny bit of practice, without even worrying about the monster's attacks in zdoom with ease. It was very refreshing playing this map in prboom+ and actually having to deal with the old fist again, rather than the fucking 20 foot spear in zdoom, and use my old techniques which I will be practicing again (going to be playing grain of salt's dmp2016 map again). Anyways onto the map. Map05 returns to a more standard layout of linear progression. I don't mind this because the encounters are really great (especially if you use fist). The rl fight is especially great on hntr I think. The caco swarm still manages to be effective, the revs are still sorta hard even without the accompanying viles which are normally present, and the cyb can still catch you out if you aren't careful when dealing with the barons. Punching the cyb in this particular area is so great. The area is small but still large enough so you have to worry about splash damage but through good movement and positioning you can mitigate splash damage almost entirely. Makes the battle very strategic. The next notable area is the drill area where the floor lowers into a pit where you need to deal with another cyb and a little horde of monsters. This area brings another challenge in the form of bumpy floors and pain sectors. I had made a previous demo on hmp of punching this cyb using far less effort, but returning to this area this time being out of practice was so much fun. The fun in this area was compounded by the bumpy floors. I had to be very careful in this area and really wait for my opportunity to deal damage to the cyb. Really great design here. The arena is larger so splash damage is no longer a threat.. rather being caught out and eating a rocket because of the bumpy floors. It was quite annoying to die in the secret area. I had screwed up my positioning here and was destroyed by the viles. When making whatev uv max demos for the beta version I had previously beaten this area without getting hit when I had the correct setup. So I need to practice this area again in order to get back up to par. On hntr the bonus encounter, if you get the bfg prior to getting the black key, in the black key area is gone. Probably for the best because there are like.. 8 viles and a cyb on uv in that area, if you get bfg first, and just more of everything else in comparison to hntr and hmp which is already normally in that area. The bfg is so powerful in this black key area on hntr and hmp.. but it makes sense I think (you are rewarded for exploration). Everything is quickly dispatched with bfg here. The final fight is still really great. There is more hp, fewer viles, and hks added (probably fewer monsters in general too in comparison to hmp and especially uv). This fight is fucking amazing on uv. There is some rng involved requiring the player to practice it extensively and come up with strategies for when things don't go according to plan. Really enjoy this fight tbh. In comparison to the beta this fight gameplay wise is much improved.. but I still really miss fighting on that structure with that crystal thing in the center which you see off in the distance as you play the map. Amazing map. Demo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uv8v3q0dgt3w3cb/s705_skill2_cl9.lmp?dl=0
  12. The DWmegawad Club plays: Crumpets & Stardate 20X7 & Rush

    Map04: This map is really great on hntr. There is still some challenge at the start (can get trapped and die instantly) but if you just avoid getting trapped there are enough medikits/stimpacks around to still get out alive without too much hassle. After that fight the map opens up and changes pace. Allowing the player to explore while dealing with some less threatening groups of monsters. The ssg fight with the viles/PEs/imps is nerfed quite a bit on hntr. But I think it is justified as beating that fight on higher difficulties requires some out of the box thinking (shooting a rocket just prior to grabbing the ssg). You will see me try this but I couldnt remember the timing so I just shoot the wall :P. The other ssg fight is also really cool. Abusing the fact that viles don't do full damage when you are up against a 32 unit high block. It is a lot of fun seeing a weird quirk of the game used in this fashion. The secrets are very well hidden on this map. Requiring some exploration. The blue armor secret is notable because you can simply make it inaccessible if you kill the vile at the start. Things that the player can royally screw up are really great. Reminds me of playing older games and breaks out of the mold where games now-a-days hold your hand till the very end (at least the ones I have played recently). The afrit was very shocking the first time I saw em. I was insta-gibbed. Now it is just kinda like.. a weird quirk that it appears in one map. But it is interesting none-the-less seeing a purple afrit and is something very memorable imo. I'm neither against nor for the puzzle at the end. I think it is a very different approach to blocking off the exit. So I give it props for that. This is definitely one of my favorite maps in the wad without a doubt. Map05 is probably my favorite simply because I really dig the atmosphere and the opportunity to punch cybs is always a bonus :D. Demo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dqvxvu56dbkb4n2/s704_skill2_cl9.lmp?dl=0
  13. The DWmegawad Club plays: Crumpets & Stardate 20X7 & Rush

    Hmmm.. so tbh there is a lot of shotgun here. which is fine because most things are simply hitscan. However.. I can't forgive the removal of the cyb in the secret fight. I wanted to punch that cyb so badly.. even without berserk. UV is definitely the preferred version of this map. Demo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/aqwl1po9skbfm8f/s703_skill2_cl9.lmp?dl=0
  14. The DWmegawad Club plays: Crumpets & Stardate 20X7 & Rush

    Yeah. So Map02 on hntr is incredible. Honestly this is the version of this map I will be playing from now on (even though I still really enjoy the uv version). Demo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/f9zrvdosod940ts/s702_skill2_cl9.lmp?dl=0
  15. The DWmegawad Club plays: Crumpets & Stardate 20X7 & Rush

    In order to improve my own mapping I have started going through wads on lower difficulties. Since Ribbiks stated he spent time on 20x7's hntr I am going to change up my normal routine and play through this wad on hntr. Probably summarize my thoughts after I am finished. I will make demos of each map. None of these have foresight on hntr but I know these maps pretty well still. Map01: https://www.dropbox.com/s/f0q4xl6ibzsi1oe/s701_skill2_cl9.lmp?dl=0
  16. The DWmegawad Club plays: Crumpets & Stardate 20X7 & Rush

    20x7 map02: This map.. is really great. There are lots of interesting scenarios and.. lots of punching =x. I really wish that I couldnt stuff the vile in its closet at the ysk area. Really enjoy the layout. The first time I played it took me forever to find all of the secrets. That soulsphere inside of that waterfall eluded me for so long.. Favorite fight is definitely the pk fight. Also the yk fight is greatly improved in comparison to the beta. Casual route max that ended up not so casual until after the pk fight (pk fight can be a bitch): https://www.dropbox.com/s/6e8dvod2axfizw8/s702_cl9.lmp?dl=0
  17. What is your stance on bumpy floors?

    Abusing the terrain is the best. If you put crap on awkward locations that the player runs into while avoiding rev rockets or something it is adding difficulty without rng. Bumpy floors are whatev in my book too.
  18. The DWmegawad Club plays: Crumpets & Stardate 20X7 & Rush

    20x7 map01: Enjoyed this map. I really liked how the switch that exposes the yk (on uv) lowers into water to give the player the hint of the yk's location. There are a lot of opportunities to punch stuff in this map so I enjoy it a lot. I do miss the cyb in the arena prior to the exit teleporter and the purple key arena. I really like the more quirky maps in this wad in comparison to the usual slaughter arena stuff. Map02 is probably the map I revisit most in this wad. Here is a low effort speed in :20 https://www.dropbox.com/s/d1kgned3r9vyqsg/20x7_map01_speed_cl9.lmp?dl=0
  19. Dimensions [/idgames]

    @CrazyDoomguy Sorry man been gone helping people in Port Aransas. Your demos will desync if not made with the idgames version.
  20. Dimensions [/idgames]

    Uploaded to idgames (link in op). Thanks to all who played and tested!
  21. Dimensions [/idgames]

    The first secret has a secret fight yeah. In boom you cannot have a secret map exit on something other than map15 without more robust mapinfo implementation iirc (someone can correct me here if I am mistaken)? Even if I could that second exit is just for fun. Not meant to go to map 31 or anything.
  22. Dimensions [/idgames]

    Cool demos. I am getting ready for idgames upload however =x. I'll leave the version currently in the op in case people want to watch your demos though. Also.. those videos remind me that I need to recommend players use software.. these maps, ESPECIALLY map02, look bad imo in opengl.
  23. Night Town (Limit-removing map on /idgames)

    So I decided to play this wad again this morning when I'm not spent running something else. I enjoyed the encounters. The weird cyb room with the invuln was cool. Also looking at the final set piece prior to jumping down into the arena was awesome. Since this is supposed to be an easier map I don't have any issues with anything. Thanks for making it! Here is a demo that is mostly blind (I never found any of the keys last night) if you want to watch me run around for ages: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lmam7q9ua9mbpf4/ntown_cl2.lmp?dl=0
  24. The DWmegawad Club plays: Crumpets & Stardate 20X7 & Rush

    Map07: I don't like this map. There is nothing in this map I found particularly fun to play. The start seemed cool. But then I realized that I can just grab the ssg and run into the room with the imps/bfg on pillar. All you really need to worry about in this room is getting tagged by a chaingunner until the entire first section is dead. The next bit with the av/revs/imps/manc. This part seemed cool until I realized I can just sit in one spot and chill until I am forced to do something. Sometimes if a rev gets hit by the manc the rev wont even shoot. It just runs back and forth for ages. I really didn't enjoy this fight tbh. Also you can easily get shot through the wall by the manc. Also if you want you can run behind the baron pillar. The baron wont hit you as long as you hug the pillar. The fight with the 2 PEs/hks/av. You can just run out of there and snipe everything from the previous area with the av/revs/imps/manc. So there isn't really any threat here. The block lines make this super simple. There is a megasphere bfg thing after hitting the switch in the area where the PEs/hks/av were. I liked the idea of shooting a shot of bfg prior to jumping down and then shooting another bfg shot right when grabbing the mega. You can kill almost all of the chaingunners every time doing this meaning you only get hit one time normally (most often from a chaingunner that doesnt die). This fight seems like it is just a little bfg party but with no threat. I think if I found that area without bfg or something first I would have found it more fun.. but I never really tried the PE/hk/av fight the 'intended' way of staying up in that small arena. I also found out you can shoot some rockets between the rev perches into that mega area. Sometimes you can kill a few chaingunners behind the wall prior to jumping down. I didn't bother researching a consistent setup for this though. The yk area is easily dealt with without taking damage pretty much 100% of the time. Just creep around the corner and pick off each chaingunner. After that you just need to run out and lure the 2 AVs/revs into your healthily supplied bfg. Then snipe each av with the 20 rockets beneath them. So reality on this map requires you to get past the manc shooting gallery thing and especially the megasphere bfg spam thing. I couldnt really get the megasphere thing consistent.. maybe I'll grind on this map for an hour a day or something until I get an exit. Because reality is definitely possible if you can get lucky at that mega area one time.
  25. What's your worst Rage Quit?

    I won't lie.. after missing a monster again and again and AGAIN trying to get a good max time in totg02 I ended up slugging my keyboard and cutting my knuckle. I haven't ran the wad since.