Tracer

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    While I will acknowledge that not all Black Lives Matter activists are criminals,

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  1. Warning: This will probably "trigger" some people.  This is an opinion about the recent "Dreamer" that was deported by the the U.S. Border Patrol.  My opinion is probably an expected one for some...so don't act surprised.  The point of this post is to encourage open discussion about what is currently a source of debate.  You are not forced to participate or read this.  Proceed at your own will.

     

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    The "Dreamer" Juan Manuel Montes Bojorquez wasn't simply deported.  He was asked by a border patrol agent to present his identification and didn't didn't have any.  It even says in this article from the Washington Post that he did not have identification on him, therefore making verification of the legality of his visit (he has a work permit and is attending welding school) impossible.  So this isn't a case of the "evil border patrol" or "evil Trump" deporting somebody.  This is a case of the guy didn't have his identification on him when he should have, making verification of his status impossible, therefore warranting the deportation.  I hope he is allowed back in once it is shown that he is legally allowed to be here.  But I won't condemn the U.S. Border Patrol for doing one of their jobs, which is deporting people who cannot prove that they are here legally.
     

    1. Nine Inch Heels

      Nine Inch Heels

      Something about this doesn't smell right for me...

      Quote

      He was asked by a border patrol agent to present his identification and didn't have any.  It even says in this article from the Washington Post that he did not have identification on him, therefore making verification of the legality of his visit (he has a work permit and is attending welding school) impossible.

      My issue with the logic at hand is that, as it would appear, it is known that he is attending a school in the U.S. Which from my point of view should require him to be in the U.S. legally to begin with. Following that logic, his deportation seems to be based merely on not having his papers with him when he should have, which I would consider to be an overreaction, to say the least.

       

      I'm not saying border patrols shouldn't do their job properly, but if my view of the situation is even the least bit accurate, a formal deportation, with no chance for the person to clarify the situation after the fact, is too much.

    2. Tracer

      Tracer

      I see where you're coming from.  But through the eyes of the deportation agent, there was no way he could have known for sure that this guy was even who he said he was.  I'm sure that Mr. Montes told the officer that he just didn't have his I.D. on him...but I guarantee that he has heard that hundreds of times before.  Now I don't know what the formal deportation process is, so I can't say with confidence whether or not standard policy was followed in this instance.  But if the question is, "Did the B.P. Officer do his job properly?"...the answer is absolutely if you ask me.  

      If anybody is involved with or knows somebody involved in the U.S. Border Patrol and can offer a first or second hand knowledge of the standard operating procedures of the deportation process, your input would be appreciated here!

    3. Tracer

      Tracer

      *Did the B.P. Officer do his job properly:

      IF standard operating procedures were followed, then my answer is absolutely.  Didn't mean to leave that out.

    4. Nine Inch Heels

      Nine Inch Heels

      The thing is though, in spite of having heard "excuses" like that several hundred times over, at least the jurisdiction should apply the "benefit of the doubt". Which is obviously not the case.

       

      It says in the article, that Montes left his wallet in a fried's car or so. Meaning that a relevant ID existed at the time. Which is why I'm saying that's just too much for not having the papers ready when asked.

       

      Of course, the border patrol needs to operate within the confines of their common procedures, and it would have been tolerable to have the "dreamer" under supervision until the situation could be clarified.

       

      But at the end of the day I'm going to stick the point I already made: If the laws in action allow for a formal deportation just because somebody left his wallet somewhere, there's something wrong about it.

    5. Marnetstapler

      Marnetstapler

      I'm actually not familiar with the case at hand since I haven't been following headlines much recently, but it's worth pointing out that we have a flawed immigration system and Donald Trump doesn't intend to make the process any easier.

       

      First, before you apply for citizenship, you have to become eligible for a green card. For guaranteed eligibility for a green card you need to meet one of the following requirements:

      -You are engaged to marry a U.S citizen and have filed a K-1 finance visa, which costs $535.

      -You have family in the U.S. who are willing to petition for you and have promised you financial support

      -You have a job offer in the U.S for which there are no other qualified workers available

      -You have $1 million or more to invest in the U.S

      -You are a clergy worker who has come to the U.S representing a clergy you've been working with for at least two years

      -You are a graduate of a foreign medical school who came to the U.S before 1978

      -You are a former overseas government worker or or retired employee of an international organization who has worked at least half of the past seven years in the US

      -You have served in the US armed forces for at least 12 years

      -You are fleeing persecution in another country, in which case you are eligible for refugee status and can apply for a green card after one year

      -You have lived in the US continuously since 1972

       

      If you say all of the above, you have to find an immigration attorney, who will typically charge you $200-300/hour for their services and apply for a temporary visa, which costs $190.

       

      If you are eligible for a green card, you must wait for five years before you can file for naturalization, which costs $595 for the application and $85 for the biometrics fee.

       

      After this you must be fingerprinted, which costs $50.

       

      Only after this, years of time and thousands of dollars, are you able to apply for a naturalization interview.

    6. Marnetstapler

      Marnetstapler

      If you say none to all of the above *

    7. Tracer

      Tracer

      Thank you very much for your insight, man.  Very much appreciated.

       

      I agree that we have a flawed system.  It is too difficult and costly (both monetarily and in duration) to become a citizen.   These people are just looking for a better life.  It shouldn't be that hard.

       

      But opening the border is not a good option either.  There needs to be a process and deporation for those who attempt to bypass that process, even the current one, as shitty as it is.

    8. Marnetstapler

      Marnetstapler

      Sure, but the flaws in the current system need to be exposed, and reporting like this is how you rais awareness. It's not simply "condemning border patrol for doing their jobs," there's much more to it than that.

    9. Nine Inch Heels

      Nine Inch Heels

      I don't see anything bad about having a system in place that provides a certain degree of insight on who's "coming in". It's not the "coming in" that's the problem here, however messy the process in and off itself is. It's the "getting out for good" that needs an overhaul as well.

       

      You gotta think there's money on the line too. That guy, like it says in the article, was working a job while also attending school to carry his own weight to the best of his abilities. That was most likely "a good man" right there. He was paying taxes, and on top of that he had ambitions to become "a proper citizen".

      The way I understand it, when it comes to these so called "dreamers", the U.S. also put money on the line as well, and that's basically all getting wasted now, because of "antique" laws that nobody seemed to care about for a bunch of decades. Basically, "dreamers" are a time and money investment which, as it stands, can get thrown out the window on a moment's notice, and that's just sad for all involved.

       

      Chances are that guy is now taking a bullet, and one can only hope that this will wake up a few people in the right places. Not that I have high hopes when it comes to Trump, but maybe we're in for a surprise at some point, I don't know.

    10. Tracer

      Tracer

      The system is undeniably flawed.  If it wasn't flawed, we wouldn't have millions of people here from all over the world who have risked deportation by coming in undocumented.  Some of them have proven to be threats, sure.  Most of them are decent enough people though.  But decent or not, there is no way for the people or the government to know who is a threat and who isn't without proper background checks.  Furthermore, getting documented is an accountability system.  If you come here and fuck up, they've already got your name, photo, know where you're from, and have a good idea on where to find you.  If you're a ghost in the system, it makes finding you that much harder.  Not impossible, but unreasonably harder.  I feel that the amount of red tape needed to get through to become a citizen is way too high, but I also don't know what kind of a backlog there is, how long a thorough background check takes on citizens of foreign countries, what that process entails, how deep it goes...there are a lot of variables that I am unaware of that make it impossible for me to have a well informed opinion on the process.  All I can say is that it seems like it takes way too long and if it didn't, people might be less likely to try and squeeze in around it.