bonnie

Friend, I already told you what you needed to get started with fixing the map. The map is still potentially salvageable and I firmly believe you would be able to accomplish such a task. Please reconsider. Again. We can help on the discord. We currently have lots of slots opening up as people are dropping out, so it looks like my dreams of making 3-4 maps is going to come true :o I would prefer having new names join the project, but I'm okay with having people make multiple maps. I had more to say but I already forgot.

@HAK3180 If they have the same properties and are adjacent, they're already considered the same, I'm 99% sure. Then again I don't know if we're talking about drawsegs or visplanes, as visplanes are just the floors and ceilings. edit: I am aware, that's why I was confused. Yes? Of course? Why wouldn't it? No it doesn't you fool!! How could anyone think that. I surely didn't. I'll take a look at the map.

@xdarkmasterx No. I'm removing you from the project. That was a lot of wasted potential with the first map too, man. Anyways with classicgamer6 reclaiming his spot, @FelixTheWolf gets another chance at a spot if he likes, but he'll have to tell me within ~12 hours if he actually wants it or not. Currently both secret level slots are open, so if anyone would like a shot at them, please PM me with your idea, otherwise I might steal one myself :o

here's an easy one to get you started friend: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FePwmIl_UxI can you make a midi version of this? preferably one that loops. you can take some creative liberties with it if you'd like, such as extending it or making it even more somber or whatever. if you'd like to see how it was used originally, check this clip: https://youtu.be/UWGtZ9Oqcwc?t=45 you can include the zombies droning in the background if you want i'd do it myself but i am inept thank you friend

It's a start. Have you played your map? Like a full playthrough of the map. I'm just curious. Anyways, it still needs reworking and tweaking in a lot of areas. For the starting area, I would either move the shotgun onto the player so they pick it up right away or put it behind the player. It's kind of frustrating tapping forward everytime to pick it up. That's about it for the inside, since you've got a pretty fun start. For the cyberdemon area, I really don't see many options there, aside from completely removing it. It's not Inferno-like at all and isn't really much fun. Maybe thinning out the hordes on imps on those narrow pathways? For the outside, it's pretty boring. It's a big circle with hitscanners, mancs, and arachnotrons, which doesn't play very well. And that curved staircase seemed completely pointless, especially with the inaccessible imp platform. That's like 20 imps that aren't even in your way and don't guard anything. They're just kinda there. As for the rest of the map... My best suggestions for the map overall: Play it yourself and balance accordingly Reduce the amount of doom 2 stuff Try to keep more in line with the start of the map: hectic and difficult yet fair doom 1 combat Keep it moderately short Don't pull any meme stuff

here's a quick small feedback post that i'll edit as time goes on for mappers not in the discord, but first i'd like to ask the remaining unsubmitted mappers to give a small update or something letting us know that you're still with us within 48 hours: @printz, @bioshockfan90 ✓, @ETTiNGRiNDER ✓, @General Rainbow Bacon, @DMPhobos ✓, @Classicgamer6 ✓, @JustCallMeKaito ✓, @Breezeep, @danielhday ✓, @Kapanyo... @bonnie some reminders: include a unique identifier for your name as well as a version number in your filenames. real simple stuff. also don't forget that the links in the OP are what will be used for compiling so make sure they're fully updated. this isn't to make extra work, it's to make compiling smoother. another reminder is to make sure you're balancing for both pistol starts and continuous, another fairly simple concept. just incorporate basic ammo balance and incorporate weapons accordingly with your map's difficulty and length (i.e. no bfg/plasma in a short easy map) to prevent wild overstocking between maps, and make sure your map doesn't completely break (flow or otherwise) if it's being played continuous and make sure it's still possible from pistol start, yadda yadda yadda EDIT: OH MY GOODNESS i forgot to mention we're extending the deadline to august 4th, stay tuned for possible further extensions feedback: ~~~ @elmle Awesome map, almost definitely gonna be an episode-ender. I'll let you know when I can confirm that so you can add a death exit (and perhaps a boss fight). Minor concerns: ammo is a bit tight at the beginning and a little too plentiful by the end; texture alignment is poor and while it seems to be on purpose in most areas, some spots like the blood-sewer-maze don't really benefit from it; the gap you have to jump near the end of the level (sector 55) seems too difficult to do without straferunning; the ending fight is a bit underwhelming overall; it might have been a secret or I got it at the wrong time or something, but that megasphere seemed oddly placed and hurt the balance. Major concern: Visplane overflows!! I started becoming very fearful entering the center area after having 2 consecutive runs end at hand of chocolate doom crashing. Still an amazing map though. ~~~ @xdarkmasterx Yeah that's gonna be a NO from me, friend. I saw your changelog and feared the worst when it appeared to say that you didn't actually fix the map on UV, but I never tried it until now. We're balancing for UV friend. I'll give you one more chance to fix the map because it's absolutely still salvageable, but if you don't understand why 20 archviles and 2 cyberdemons (among plenty of other things) don't fit with the Inferno style, I might have to remove you from the project. Please man, just make it reasonable. HMP seems like it would make for a great lategame episode-starter, though it still needs work in a lot of areas. Once you fix it up, I'll try to get you a demo and some proper feedback. ~~~ @Garbage Tutti-frutti in the third room on the first stair. A few too many shells, as I ended with quite a large number of them. Boxy in some areas, a little too symmetrical in others. Inferno has a lot of unsymmetrical designs and areas. A little too cluttered in some parts. I liked the really bright sector in that one curvy room at the start, though. I recommend spacing a lot of areas out (but don't forget to add decorative things/detail to fill in the empty spaces) and adding more chaotic design to others, while lowering shell counts, at least on UV. Also that soulsphere was kind of weird. Is that supposed to be on the lower difficulties? Because it's only on UV. Overall a somewhat decent map that has room for improvement. Here's a demo: garbage_bondemo.zip

here you go friends https://discord.gg/sxkqxWh mentions:

it has come to my attention that it may be worth biting the bullet and creating a very late discord for this project, as we need to get rolling with quick feedback, exchanges, and updates, especially for me. if you're interested, say I. if literally anybody says I i'm makin it it wouldn't be mandatory, but it would be extremely beneficial to join. you may also join if you'd like to just be a dedicated tester or something also i'm almost certainly extending the deadline, but i'm not entirely sure when.

If you're using an nvidia card, right click your desktop and select "NVIDIA Control Panel". Once open, click "Adjust desktop size and position" on the left, select the "Aspect ratio" scaling mode, set "Perform scaling on:" to GPU, and check off "Override the scaling mode set by games and programs". I think.

@Classicgamer6 Please friend, take a day or two to think it over. I can help you with your map if you want on Discord or through PMs if you want!! Trust me, 8 days is more than enough time to finish a decent Inferno map. On top of that, I'm strongly considering extending the deadline by a week due to my inability to give feedback on the submitted maps. If you truly want to leave however, just edit your post confirming your decision sometime tomorrow. Until then, @FelixTheWolf may have the slot if you leave.

They're just in case we get enough people to have an overflow episode. I didn't really advertise it much because I can't deal with the hassle of having over 32 maps. I'm not giving priority to them for replacing empty slots unless the mapper specifically wants to. I will, however, give priority to people without a map yet, like FelixTheWolf. edit: also sorry about not having any feedback for maps, I've been trying to prepare one large post for it but I've been insanely busy for like two weeks now and have only been able to slowly chip away at the maps. I'll break the feedback post into two or three different posts at this point, unfortunately with no demos. I will however record demos for any maps needing them after the deadline, as well as new demos for any updates post RC/idgames release. @NaZa yes

The xbox version does indeed have much greater pitch shifting than any port I can find however, which is quite upsetting. It can sound goofy at times, but it keeps the sounds fresh when they have such an extreme range.

PM me your idea and we'll see friend.

@Darox thank you friend for showing me screenshots while i'm away c: my my only concern is the green alter room. it's really red, so i would suggest either altering a part of the room like the floor or ceiling or something to be not-red or get some light variation in the room (such as darken blood parts, brighten green parts slightly) to add atmosphere and take away from the redness, or a combination of both also this isn't as much an inferno thing but I think the red brick visible on the raised lift (as seen at the bottom of screenshot 2) should have a different texture on it besides those two things i really like the texture choices c: and yes @sarge945, i'll allow the custom aligned teleporters. don't get carried away with other flats just yet though

I mean it was really always this "specific". It's just that I clarified more on some of the techniques Inferno implored that people were kinda ignoring. You can still easily reach the stated expectations while remaining short and simple. It just seemed like the maps I played were straying further and further from Inferno and becoming generic heck maps. Anyways, I really didn't mean to come off like I was demanding more silver exits, I was just using it as an example. I feel so influential now though ;~; @sarge945 So they're in between the correct markers, but are they 64x64? Are they actually in flat format (they'll be exactly 4kb in slade if they are)? Did you remember to NOT add the flats to PNAMES and TEXTURE1 (never add flats to them, they work right out of the box)? Are you sure they have unique names? @Darox Couldn't you stick two silver teleporters side by side in between where the teleporters are now? I think that should still let them be aligned

*** IMPORTANT UPDATE *** I just wanted to restate some key points about the project regarding the kinds of maps expected as well as a reminder of the submission guidelines. First, on the submission guidelines: something very important people have been neglecting to do has been properly naming your .wad files. They should be including an identifier of some sort (like bon or bn) as well as a version number. All files are to be formatted like this before the deadline. Another thing to remember is to update all previous posts with the latest version of your map. Just include the most up-to-date link in all posts containing a link to a different version, as well as a version number. Simply changing the link isn't enough. A final note on the submission guidelines is that you should actually be following the format I posted in the OP. If you're unfamiliar somehow, it's this: If you've already submitted a map, update one of your posts to include this. If you're unable to fill out one of the items, just put a ? or a N/A or something similar, and edit it once you can fill it out. Don't forget to pick out a demo to represent your map (once you believe it to be in a finished state, so it would be best to leave this until we're nearing the deadline), and to mention who made the demo and what kind it is (casual, uv-speed, nm100s, etc). No exceptions. If you've submitted something and aren't using the proper filenaming convention, editing your posts to be up-to-date, or using the submission guidelines format, please do so soon (you can wait on the filename part until your next update however, just focus on the other aspects right away). If we all cooperate on this, it makes life significantly easier for everyone, especially me when I'm organizing, ordering, and compiling maps. ~ Anyways since some of you seem to be getting confoggled, I'd like to remind you guys that this is supposed to be Inferno, not generic hell maps. You should be aiming to emulate both visuals and gameplay from the E3 maps, such as for example the silver teleporter exits. Every single E3 map outside of e3m8 (and the secret exit) ends with a silver teleporter, so it's surprising that not many people have been incorporating them. I'm not heartbroken over it, just surprised. However, one thing I want to stress (again) is the length of the maps. I'm okay with closer to Plutonia levels of difficulty (so long as the combat still retains a largely doom 1 feel), but the maps should not last all that long. Inferno maps create length through their interesting or slightly obscure progression, fit with a multitude of optional areas, traps, and pseudo-puzzles. Most of the Inferno maps can actually be completed quite quickly in a casual setting if you already know where you're supposed to go, as much of the level can be skipped and many traps avoided. This doesn't mean your levels can't be long, it's just that they can't be ridiculously long and certainly shouldn't require extensive exploring each time to complete the level. Another aspect I'd like to stress again is to avoid having "finales" in your maps, as it's very un-doomlike in general. Your map should just end once all progression requirements have been met, you shouldn't have some massive horde waiting at the end or some grand ambush. You should just reach the end and (if you want) have a monster or two waiting at the exit. Gameplay should be simple and brutish, with crowds of low to mid tier enemies in areas along with thorough ambushes, not massive hordes of high tier enemies or slaughter-levels of low tier ones either. As for the visuals, they effectively use lighting to create atmosphere in the levels, as well as using either good texture variation or focusing on a color other than a generic red or brown (see e3m4 for a lot of these elements). Don't forget that too many Doom 2 textures or enemies can start polluting the E3 feel, so try to limit yourself somewhat. Try to focus on some of these elements in your maps over the coming weeks. ~ P.S. Here's a spoiler with the mapper list again, just so that all mappers get mentioned and thus a notification for this (at least I hope, I really don't want to type out the mentions again ;~;). *** some feedback *** @Darox I really liked it friend. It was simple and short with good E3 vibes, although some of the texture usage (especially in the center room and lifts) kind of hurt said vibes. I also felt like maybe some parts were just a little too difficult considering the relatively short length of the map, but it's most likely fine. One particularly odd (and irrelevant) nitpick: I think you should probably just leave the exit door closed, for speedrunning purposes. I had some fun doing some UV-Speed runs on your map (my best time was 52 seconds), but it bothered me that you could just skip over the line that closes the door to nullify and kind of ruin the run as it just becomes a game of trying to skip the line. Obviously it doesn't actually matter at all, but I dunno :c I played some other maps, but I'm gonna be away for the next few days and limited to my phone. I'll have a post dedicated to feedback when I get back. I don't know why I wrote this one at all, though. Oh well.

Well currently we don't actually have a map31 anymore, since Alter dropped out. If anyone is interested in taking the secret slot, PM me first with your idea (don't say anything in the thread until you get approval). The other free slot is currently being reserved until further notice.

It should indeed cause tutti-frutti, I had it in my own map when I tried. A steep staircase should work however like you suggested.

Well since not even Inferno is consistent about it, I think it's best that I don't enforce any rules about them. Just don't do anything ridiculous like make lava non-damaging or something.

I hadn't thought about custom bosses until just now actually. The dehacked file was originally just going to be giving some enemies KeenDie actions on their death states so you'd have to kill them to progress the level, like in Doom 1. I really don't think I want a custom boss as that would likely stray quite massively from the Inferno feel, but perhaps if the project starts to feel monotonous and I find one or something close to what I want, I might try to add it in to keep things spicy. which is what I named this project after If we do a sequel, it's gonna be called "Infernewer: STOP THAT INFERNAL RACKET" ...what? My take was that being inspired by particular features of the E3 maps was a requirement. I wouldn't be horribly disappointed if we ended up with 32 Inferno homages, but I would absolutely be disappointed if we ended up with 32 generic "Hell" maps. I was hoping that people would make maps matching both the Inferno aesthetic and gameplay to a degree, as that was kind of the point of the project. I'll try to clarify this more in my next update. edit: why would it be?? omega edit: @NaZa what wording?? where???? my goodness friend @sarge945 Yes but even with the worst zdoom settings I could think of, I couldn't get the lines to appear on the automap, nor could I get the decorations to block bullets. Were you referring to prboom+'s default automap colors?

Unfortunately zdoom ports do indeed make Doom quite a bit easier in a lot of areas. Have you tried glboom+? That alone should be easier than chocolate doom. You can use my starterpack if that makes it easier. Anyways, sorry for not updating like I said I would. I've had a lot going on. Specifically work. Just work. I got home last night, downloaded a single map and decided "oh boy time for bed!!" I'll have a lot of time tonight (and tomorrow) so I'll finally get to play all the maps, give feedback, and make various other updates. It's just hard at work when I only get sparing moments on my phone to do anything.

@HAK3180 Starts only doesn't neccessarily mean 4 DM starts, it could potentially mean just one start. On that note, if you only have one start, the map won't crash in DM but it'll result in players telefragging each other constantly since they have no other place to spawn. I'm not sure what you mean with the whole keys and doors thing. Unless you're adding a dm arena outside your map (which exist by the way, such as in plutonia map30), you really shouldn't be changing up the single player experience exclusively for DM purposes unless, again, the map would be perfect for DM. As for marking multiplayer starts as multiplayer only, it doesn't make a difference. They won't be used in single player and they'll always be there in multiplayer, unless you map for boom and flag them as "not in coop" and "not in deathmatch". Extremely important: please remember to add coop safe switches and teleporters and whatnot to prevent softlocks. Just imagine beating your level but then getting teleported back to the start of the level and having to progress through it again in the same state you left it in. If you can't do it, you'll need to adapt it for coop. Or like if you all went into a room and everyone died, would the map break? If you need to, you can do "-solo-net" in pr/glboom to test maps in coop with just yourself, complete with respawning, multiplayer things, and all that good stuff. Obviously it isn't horribly helpful for balancing purposes or testing DM however. On that note, I totally forgot that chocolate doom has multiplayer capabilities, so that's totally an option if you're interested c:

Basically what they said, but I'll say stuff too for funsies. Don't worry about DM unless you believe your map would be amazing for DM. In vanilla you only have a single multiplayer flag, so multiplayer-only things will appear in both coop and DM. Doom II decided to put weapons in balanced around DM and then occasionally put enemies in to balance coop around the weapons, but Doom II coop actually plays like garbage so please don't use that as an example. Just focus on the coop experience and remember that people will play in a variety of ways with different rules regarding multiplayer things, respawning (the survival gamemode where you get limited lives is quite popular), among other things. I've noticed that the best coop experiences in wads are typically designed for either people who've already played the wad before and are looking for a "new game+" style experience (like scythe 2) or for people playing through it for the first time and thus having a slightly adjusted yet fair experience (I don't have any examples). Rarely does just doing nonsense like throwing in a BFG and 20 cyberdemons work out well. tl;dr unless your map is perfect for dm, just put dm starts in to prevent crashes and exclusively balance around coop If you want, we can get some people together and play some wads together on Zandronum and even test some of the maps that've been submitted to far to give you some multiplayer experience c:

@NaZa @HAK3180 As long as the final product retains a visual resemblance to Inferno, any textures are allowed. @xdarkmasterx First off, please refer to the submission guidelines for how to submit your map. Second, there's absolutely no way I'm going to accept your map in its current state. 25 archviles? Did you even play your own map? The cyberdemon arena even has visplane overflows. The only way I'll allow this is if each difficulty still followed the convention of being easier than the last. On that note, I updated your fixed version of the textures to include some other Infernew resources as well as change all 3 skies to use the SKY3 patch. d1gfxd2_infernew.zip Anyways, I want to talk about what I have played, and issue out some caveats: Please please please don't try to make your map overly long or overly difficult, nor should you try to put some grand finale in each map. We're likely looking at a full 32 maps here, so don't be scared to make short and (somewhat) easy maps. The maps I've played so far have been trying a bit too hard. Also keep in mind that we'll be balancing and ordering around UV, and you should also balance your map for both pistol start and continuous, to an extent. Another announcement is that now that we're filled up on slots, we'll need some boss levels. If you're interested in turning your submission into a potential boss level, let me know and I'll give you a dehacked file you can use. We won't need many, and I'm still working out how many boss levels and episodes there will be. Another-another announcement is that you may now enlist for the reserves if you so choose, meaning that you join the project but without getting a slot. The first people on the reserves get access to slots that open up, and if we get enough people, I'll consider allowing an overflow wad for all the extra maps c: i had more things to say but I forgot them oh well, happy mapping

I hope to implement at least some quality control, so if you're new to mapping you need to be prepared to put in more effort to improve your map before the deadline. Thankfully however, Inferno maps are fairly simple, so just play through it a bit, study the maps, then pick a map you really want to emulate before extensively studying it. If you're willing to put in the extra effort, then yes, this would actually be a great project for you friend.