chilvence

Well, you don't have to listen. You don't even have to listen to me, certainly I have nothing to give. I gave up mapping before ports even existed.

I only have my opinions.

Personally I think this whole endeavor is short sighted. There are plenty of 2.5 d games out there that are similar and could use the same degree of life support that Doom enjoys. The resurrection of Strife has shown that it is possible, in fact there are plenty of projects on the internet to keep other kinds of games alive that never had a source release. Scummvm, gemrb...

Since there are no more of these games in production, I think it would be much more interesting to design a format that is all encompassing, build the framework of an engine that can be gradually extended to understand all these games, and start working on a 'one editor to rule them all' sort of thing.

Since that won't be happening here though, I leave you in peace.

When I say the format should be designed in the open, I understand why you might not like the idea. But I am not saying it should be designed by committee, that would be ridiculous. I am saying you should give ample time for anyone to comment on it, have at least one beta, etc.
Anyone who has not said their piece by that point can only blame themselves.

And also, as I was trying to imply, I really don't care if DB works on linux or not either. As a linux user I have learned to accept that I can't have everything. But I have also learned to hope that no problem is irreparable :)

So by all means use DB as the starting point. But if you are going to try and actively block people out just because you can't quell a few debates, then maybe the project should be doomed to fail...

I don't know if theres much room to argue about DB being a windows app - I've pretty much accepted that from the beginning.

Its just a shame that by using Windows libraries, it has to be paralysed in windows territory, something that isn't an issue with any cross platform stuff.

So don't blame CodeImp, blame the culture.

As for the extended map format, its something that should be considered before the editor is even built, and by anyone who might be interested. Not just a few people with outspoken opinions on the subject. In the end, if you design it behind a wall of silence, then people who actually make maps are eventually going to think of something they wish they could have had, when it is again much to late.

Indeed, do go on. Anything but more grumpiness :P

At what point do people think 'gosh, I really don't like the three people interested in making hi res facelifts for my 15 year old game, I think I will taunt them until they give up and go and do something more productive, like playing with lego'

Critics of the pack should be aware that I personally am to blame for most of the bad looking textures - which were mostly replacements for all of the _worse_ looking textures. I stopped working on them ages ago now though, and Kurikai just recently picked the project back off the ground. Isn't it a great thing though, that this keeps coming back up over and over again improving every time, just like... I dunno... a 'project' I think is the word? A project with momentum?

The goal of which is to please anyone who cares, however futile that may seem against the 5 or so naysayers who care enough to constantly moan about it at any single mention, and should therefore consider themselves heard and ignored in due process?

If this was just another mod, with no connection at all to the Doom universe, it would have been much more fun to work on. I realised that when I started working with my flatmate on flash games. Hell it would have been worth it just to avoid your incessant opinionating, GRAF ZAHL

ps, I love GZdoom by the way. Please find a way to fork it back into Zdoom eventually... with the 3d features, the fragglescript making it interchangeable with legacy, even the budding model support it deserves more limelight.

See, aren't I nice. Isn't it nice to be nice to people?

I disagree that violent games make you violent. On the other hand, 90% of games seem to be about violence of some sort. Sure, its fun every now and then, but gorging on it takes away the inherent charm and stress relief of it. Like too much of anything I guess.

I hope someday there is a resurgence of less violence-centric games. The two games I am most after right now are Ecco DC, and Myst online, both of which were made ages ago.

I just poked my head at the official website 'teaser'. I will say if it has a heavy African influence, I think it could be interesting.

And you dont think the revenant or the arch vile also have a dietary problem?

Well, I'm glad you think so.

I have been looking for something I can use to animate all my characters for the longest time, and now that I've actually got used to using blender, it seems like some of my projects might finally get some forward momentum. For one thing, I can finally stop juggling between formats... and there are some helpful uvmapping tools and rigging abilities in blender that I never gave it credit for before.

The fact that someone recently added in the sculpt mode though, is the biggest point of attraction. Now I can finally have some fun with this high poly modelling fad thats been going since Doom 3...

heh...

It's actually the other way around, its the supermodels who all want to look like our dark demon spitting overlord. Not burdened with an actual stomach or digestive tract to speak of, he can easily maintain his extra slim figure.


Yes I am sorry the wings look a bit shit. They were only meant to be two sided polies, and it certainly doesnt translate well to a 3d rendering. Thats why I said test...

I decided (can't imagine why.. ahem) to have a go at the sculpting and texture baking features of blender, using this model as a test piece, heres an update:

http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=baconoy5.png

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/2487/testxj1.png

I have to say, its quite fun :)

Aabra said:

Instead of opening the source I think we'd rather have anybody who's got the programming experience, the motivation, and interest in Skulltag simply ask to join the team.

Forgive me, but, popular as it may still be, the world isn't brimming with dedicated Doom coders willing to commit to a large project. Most people who are asking for the source probably only want to tinker and experiment with it. That doesn't mean they will never create anything substantial out of it, it would just allow them to do so without the pressure of a team of cloak and dagger modders eyeballing them for input. You refuse to release the source, AND you are scaring people off.

I'll certainly take any suggestions on what he should be, maybe I will want to start the idea afresh in future.

One thing I would like to argue though, is that most of the doom monster classes are hardly even vaguely similair to any of the others (except of course the obvious clones like the zombies). You have fatty, floating blobbies, pinkies, bruisers, imps, lanky alien looking things, giant skeletons, brains on stilts... While this does make you wonder how they organise the seating at dinner parties, its always been a good thing in my opinion. And with that said, I think I could just have easily made him into a giant worm with a goat head and still fit the context of the game :)

Well, you're right on the nose with your description - its really just a winged skeleton with hoved feet.

But then I don't really know if I could say what would be appropriate for a Doom 2 boss. Certainly not a big wall texture though.

The grin is there by the way, its unfortunately lost in the flatness of it all.

Point taken to heart, the legs do actually look lots and lots better after a slight scaling. However, the gangly look and the oversize head is more of an on purpose thing - the intention was to make it look very sick and emaciated. That would have to be skinned to really be convincing though. This is actually a hastily edited cousin of hexen's death wyvern, if that helps conjure up the image for you.

Hmm...yeah - I often think I should take a step away from 3d modelling altogether, and focus on just being able to draw well, clear and proportionately. I don't find it as fun as computer art, because you have to have paper and stuff at hand. But theres alot to be said for it developing your overall arty knowledge.

Come on. You're just being indignant because I tried to make one of your precious gargoyles, aren't you :P

There are things in this world that I couldn't possibly dream of approaching without winning the lottery and devoting every minute of my time to practice and study. Incidentally, I was having a browse of a zbrush forum earlier and found it to be shocking.

Therefore, I don't try to. I use the tools that suit me and anything I learn is a bonus. When I started out, it pained me to make simple trees and pots and weapons. I myself am something of a joke to me at that time, and I am sure that this here will seem a joke to me another few months from now. But I don't point the finger and go 'ah-ha', to me nor anyone else!

You may find it amusing that I am stuck in my ways. Do you think I am that stupid that I enjoy being sentimentally attached to a piece of crap tool that crashes if you dont love it well? When I do find a new tool that suits my purpose, I shall be very happy indeed. It wont be because of your helpful advice though, I can guarantee that.

Bank said:

This shall be settled with a modelfight.

No, I wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on, Cheapy is far more practiced at modelling than I am. I can still call him a snobby git though :P

And how is it any of your business if I decide to use q2mdlr instead of blender or max or whatever? I have tried a dozen different programs, and I always reach the same conclusion; they all give you far too much more than you need, and in so doing become ugly and cluttered and I cant abide that in anything. I would just as soon replace my toolbox with a swiss army knife, thank you very much. And last time I checked, 3d models were still made out of the same triangles as ever.

Although its something of a running joke with me that I never finish a model I start, I did feel quite proud of getting this one to a fully meshed state. Its based on an old, old fan pic somewhere on this site.



Alas, its the weight of the other three tasks that usually stops me dead (uvmapping, skinning and animation). But I am having counselling for that.

AndrewB said:

Because my time is more important than yours.

I don't really need to know anything more from you, thanks for saving me some time in future :)

I don't know, why don't you take a detailed analysis and relative comparison of system specs and capabilities and work it out, instead of asking me, like I give a crap?

Scuba Steve said:

I guess... why would I buy Mac... to install Windows... just to use as my primary OS?

Why would you buy a pc just to install Windows as the primary os :P .

You wouldn't really anyway, you'd buy a Mac because its pretty much any old computer nowadays. Apart from the fact that someone actually put some thought into the design.

kristus said:

You mean it has in game wad loading and downloading? Legacy had this for some 6 years now, so much for novelty.

Oh. Well anyway, its about time someone else caught on, other games have had similar cabability for years (at least as far as managing a collection of random maps goes)

Quasar said:

but that they chose to demote him because he was too similar to D'Sparil and they wanted something bigger.

This has always really aggravated me. The second serpent rider is supposed to be similar to the first, and it was always perfectly obvious from the start that the Heresiarch was meant to be the bad dude and Korax just the beastie. I always considered it as an excuse to cop out on the two extra boss monsters that could have been in the game. Like maybe a big Iron Golem defending the castle throne, and maybe even a Lich placed in there somewhere.

Eidolon in Hexen 2 was even worse. After struggling through an exceptionally dull game to find that the only awesome level was right at the end, and after fighting four dudes riding on horseback because they ran out of ideas to steal from DnD, he turns out to be a stupid red devil man that gets really big when you make him mad. They could have at least given him a beastie to ride on, seeing as it worked for the other bosses.