agenten

I agree, it's kind of annoying when a game makes you shoot all these dogs. I don't really play Wolf, but I didn't like shooting Brahmin(cows) and Mutant Hounds in Fallout. Elevator Action 2 comes to mind as a game completely ruined by this. Realism though is a huge factor and to me the cartoon cat was inoffensive. What's OK to kill in a videogame is pretty subjective.

I'm using the hanging Keens in a nonfarcical context! =D I'm turning them into a sortof easter egg hunt, find the hidden ones in each map. TTYTT I was happy when I saw the new capsuled alien thingy, because it works well for this (not that it makes sense to kill baby alien jars in my game for any reason, but it works.) I think things like this and BossBrain sprite shouldn't be thought of as joke sprites nobody will ever use. iD used them as a tool, and made them fit their purpose, which was the joke, but most mappers that have them available could use them for whatever they want, or may find a problem that they help solve. IMO they should be thematically consistent with the other sprites because you never know what someone else might like to do with them. They each use code that none of the other Actors use. I also use BossBrain for something completely nonfarcical, but I can get around to replacing Stallman's head later. XD Although I should say for the most part I don't care what gets left in or out resource-wise as long as it makes its way to the Attic, and I always thought the cat was cute. I don't see the difference between that and shooting hundreds of dogs in Wolfenstein. It's okay because they're nazidogs? I still think the aliens make more sense.

Holy f†††. This is exactly what I needed. It's hard to learn the new GZDoom stuff without a solid grounding on the original engine. Thank you so much. I'm looking also at the wealth of resources on Dr. Sleep's Apothecary, but I'm not sure the exact document you refer to, could you point me in the right direction? Either way you've set me down a rabbithole I won't soon see the light of day from. This is all pretty fascinating, though I really didn't expect it to be. It also clears up a couple of confusions and makes the whole process sound less terrifying. Thank you. Very well, I will read this 900 page book and start a small vanilla map on the side. If it turns out to be any good, Freedoom can have it, but it will mostly just be a learning experience for me. Ooh. Sorry to derail the OP.

Before I dump a wall of text, this issue concerns the new vanilla limitations, and their need to be downconverted from Boom-compat? Or just their playability and enjoyability in general? Okay, hoping the answer doesn't make this irrelevant-- Without being terribly familiar with the maps in question and their respective authors, I have been watching talks about these things. To my understanding, the main issue is the play-quality of the older maps, yes? I don't see why, in the case that the authors don't want to see their work removed, they wouldn't try to update their maps. Freedoom seems to take whatever assets it can get at the time, and then reassess their value later, as possibly better assets become available. I can see both sides of the story--this sort of 'use and discard' mentality surely rubs people the wrong way down the road, but competition can only be healthy for the end product and user. If someone made an asset ~8 years ago, and something new and flashy comes along to try to replace it, well, hopefully in that time the person has gained skills to improve the original work and remain competitive. Idea: What about having the older maps as an additional episode? "No Rest in the Attic?" Idea: What about having the newer maps as an optional IWAD? then the old maps could be used for vanilla, and the newer ones could be retargeted for Boom, Zdoom, or preferably even GZDoom/GZDoom-GPL(the most liberally licensed source port being currently updated)? I don't see the point of throwing away all these very old Boom maps and then having a need for many new maps to be made, in vanilla. That seems like a turnoff to all but the most hardcore '93-era Doom modders. AFAICT it would be easier to convert the older maps, and easier to get mappers for new maps without targeting for vanilla only. Kick me if I'm wrong about this because I have no interest or experience in vanilla mapping. There are a lot of new modders coming into the fray this year, myself included, and I'd guess almost none of them are targeting for DOS/Chocolate Doom, and I'd assume that the older mappers would have more knowledge and interest in things like visplane monitoring. I'd much rather check out DTWID than try to make it myself. I respect my elders but I'm out for new horizons. Either of these are basically the same idea, to functionally split the project into "Freedoom Classic"(or "Chocolate Freedoom"), and "Freedoom EXtended", wherein the old assets and maps would remain as a static installation whereas EXtended would continue to grow and mutate. The number one problem with this (besides fragmentation) is those contributors might see the Classic variant as a distributed Attic of sorts, that their work still goes largely unseen in favor of the new content. I think the specific port-targeting could help allay that feeling, it's not "old deprecated Freedoom," it's "Freedoom's vanilla compliant episodes." I'm the wrong person to sympathize with this because I'm using the project for its assets, so I've gone through the attic, I've thrown away a couple new sounds and sprites in favor of the old ones, I have copies of most of the old WADs. The good stuff in the attic isn't rotting, it's just waiting to be needed. The discarding of old material benefits me greatly because it brings new material into availability, while retaining the old assets somewhere accessible, so I have a bigger pool to work from. If someone decides tomorrow that the Aquatex textures look like $h††, because they found something barely slightly better, I'll be happy to keep the Attic well-dusted. I realize that has nothing to do with the actual maps, but if I was somehow reusing the maps for a project, it would. What is the *overall* playability of the maps in question, versus what they could be replaced with? Most of the maps I've played through (that are complete) seem fine at a cursory playthrough, maybe not stellar, but target port affects that. If that's the general consensus, it gives a stronger argument for them to not be outright replaced. Back to your post, what is the definition of an "acquired-taste map?" (Serious question, again I'm not super familiar with the maps) I often don't see the point of making any art "just for yourself." This seems like a crutch to negate criticism. "I didn't make this with the idea of someone else enjoying it besides me in mind... but please use and appreciate it." Nope, things like this don't belong in a game, a song, a movie, unless you intend to be to sole audience of the product, and if so, I think the licensing is needlessly liberal in this particular case. XD The fact is that you should ALWAYS be designing maps for yourself, as the best judge of what's FUN, not as the only person who understands the work's intention well enough to criticize it, and then refuse to do so. But maybe people just don't agree with the difficulty or the playstyle or something. Some doomers like different things, more slaughtermap, less keyhunt, etc.??? Freedoom means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. The best solution is to include all those things, and all those people, as much so as can remain reasonable for the project. A lot of my points are not simplicity-friendly. I am all for keeping the old maps in as long as they remain fun and playable. I think reframing them under vanilla limits, if possible, might increase their perceived value to players. I also think that if the original authors can be reached, but they don't want to continue working on their maps to fix whatever might cause them to be replaced, then it probably doesn't matter at all. There's nothing stopping them from releasing their own favored version as "Freedoom: Director's Cut". They could even sell it on Steam or to Martin Shkreli for a million billion dollars. Personally, I think Freedoom should release a final version of Phase 1/2 as soon as it can, and then move on to a full sequel, targeted for OGL ports, in UDMF, with no lump limit, no need for support of DOOM1.wad, and a focus on being the best game it can be and providing the most and best assets, rather than a straight 1:1 conversion. Of course, everything I say comes from the lens of the end-user, rather than as a contributor. But for myself, I'd be willing to contribute some new Actor code if that ever happens(as of now, the project would simply have no use for it), and of course I'd be far more able to contribute a map, working in the modern style I'm more familiar with. Once Freedoom reaches a certain point of progress, it can't do anything new besides cannibalize itself.

Will PM you.

I thought I'd post a few edits to the stock Freedoom assets, such as, I felt these Egypt textures could use a little cleaning. Anything I post here can be used for your project or moved into Freedoom/attic/etc. and this should serve as notice that I agree with the Freedoom license etc. Egypt cleanups: https://mega.nz/#!2Qc0QRKb!Iy0g31jfWMcMz1RatdK-MYDmSK2rVrsapAhNSy0HnKI

Sorry I skipped over those. lotta stuff to sort through. Here's a new zip with the missed files included. I'll update the Mega links later when my RSI chills out. https://www.dropbox.com/s/hbe4huu8tybl6d7/Egypt%20CLN%20w%20forgottens.zip?dl=0

Thank you Voros. I have no further arguments at this time, because I feel like i'm derailing the OP. I also hate law. XD I will add that I find it disappointing that ID's games are now solely in the hands of people who do not share ID's philosophies on software. =(

In my opinion if Zenimax has a lawyer and owns the DOOM IP it knows about Freedoom, and probably any other mod that isn't completely low-profile. I also don't depend of them to be predictable, or to act in line with their own expectations. Lawsuits aside, we've seen Brutal Doom praised and then they kinda took the best ideas and put them into D4. And then we've seen a New Vegas mod basically ported to FO4 with some changes. The modmaker in this case doesn't mind, but i think it's kinda messed up. The message here is, "you can have all the fun you want writing content for our game engine for free, but you can't sell it, but if it's good enough, WE can sell it. On that note I would think that if there were any new complaints from Zeni it would likely be about Brutal Doom since like, HoESP runs without a Doom wad and ships w/ copped Doom sprites/graphics. But BD is too high profile and Zeni would just get DDOSed constantly by angry children. So the 'logical' thing to do is just draw mods out of a hat, and sue whoever we pull out of the hat if their mod's not good enough for our next game. I'm making a commercial product (don't hang me, it's in the license) using Freedoom and GPL'd IDtech1 technology. I'm being very careful about the licenses yet still I do not feel safe from their eye. I think Freedoom itself is safe. It's also not a commercial product. It does *replace* doom but I think if anyone is targeted it will likely be someone with a commercial product trying to make a name for themselves. I guess they've sent a pretty clear message--"you can't use our game to plug your other game." I have a feeling this was all to make an example after Romero dropped 2 doom maps to promote Blacklight, since they couldnt *honestly* drag Romero through the dirt in public. Again, I'm outside their IP. But that doesn't guarantee there won't be complications. It is merely supposed to. I keep trying to stop myself from sounding paranoid. If anything, getting a C&D from Zenimax probly only pushed DoomRL/JupiterHell more prominently into the public eye, ensuring they'd meet their kickstarter goal. I'd never hope for the same luck. When I first started this project I figured I'd make a legit DOOM mod for practice. That project has completely been abandoned in light of DRL because I now don't want an IP'd mod preceding the game's release if it has any of the same ideas as the mod, even if said ideas are my own additions. IMO Zeni could easily C&D Freedoom's name because while the word may be generic the games in similarity are very close and they're running on the same-ish technology. It's not like putting out a game called "Towers of Doom" which is a tower defense game running in unity. I don't doubt that you guys could fight that if it ever happened but I'd predict that you'd be more likely to just change the name to something else instead because it wouldn't be worth the trouble. This is just my perspective, that the name is mostly fine for a free game but it may be cause for concern to some people using it for development. It's not going to keep me from using it... unless a new and similar IWAD replacement project called TotallyNotDoom hits the market. XD I thank anyone who even read this all the way through.

This can be done in MAPINFO lump. This is not compat with Boom but as I went to look it up I see it being said that if Boom sees a MAPINFO lump in its wad it will scroll right past it, so you should be safe to include it. Apologies if I'm wrong. http://zdoom.org/wiki/Actor_properties#Powerup.Color Check for other properties in this lump which also effect powerup fx. You can change the Item pickup flash too. I made mine purple. Thanks to you, I find out just now that Invulns can be given a Reflect property to repel enemy proj. I was going to cut the invulns out of my game entirely (don't need em, just don't take damage). But after seeing this I may just use Reflect and cut the duration down to like 5, 10, or 15sec, as a short-burst godspurt to rack up some swarmkills. i may have to play with the properties to make it so reflected bullets hurt monsters. I currently have most infighting disabled.

I think it's a good idea, I'd love to use a less jaggy font. You know, the Freedoom font is WAY jaggier and blockier than the OG DOOM font. As far as packing it in additional PWAD I think that would be smart too. If the vanilla compat thing causes space issues, I think lots of stuff could be put in PWADs--alternate textures, monster palswaps, older versions of the weapons... you could have a "Freedoom EX" PWAD just like the one I'm making for myself, out of palswapped sprites and textures, reindexed for use in GZDoomBuilder alongside the stock-named sprites. For my project I am using GZDoomGPL so the vanilla (hard to wanna make an original game in vanilla, cause it's harder to do anything else besides a straight DOOM game) thing doesn't really do much for me, at a point it would become disappointing what doesn't get included because of it. For people who need an extra version of a Freedoom monster in a different color with reindexed spritenames[and possibly some unique actor code] I could send a couple of those, but they wouldn't include it because you already have a Serpent, why would you need a forest green Serpent, and a ripleyalien black and green Serpent, if there's not much room left? (I have 3 different FreeCacos by now, only 1 of them still has sucky actor code) If someone were to donate another Huge amazing texpack like Aqua, there'd be no room for it without an expanded resource wad, but I would definitely want to use them. If this does get done I'd love to add a couple things to it. I've seen a couple Freedoom expansion wads with a small feature or other, perhaps someone would want to make a compilation wad of the best of those, with a clear license. The last one of these I was looking at just an hour ago didn't have any mention of the Freedoom license, so I skipped over it for now.

Mr. Flibble, I actually kinda love the new infinity logo because of the symbol itself. I'd have to pull my Character Map up to type it out in the credits, but yeah I do like it, if you're serious. It might not be helpful for you guys, assuming you want to be easy to google. Like I said that sort of thing I don't find to be crucial for my own use cause I can work around it as a precaution, but it certainly might be helpful to others as well as me, and it's something I think about a quite often--complications arising from the original IP despite measures taken. Well, thanks for even suggesting it. I know I kinda just stepped in through the front door here. I suppose another (possible) option might be to modify the license to allow mutliple options for crediting, like, if I use the FreeDM wad and could credit "FreeDM" (and BLasphemer) instead of "The Freedoom Project"? Stop me if that sounds rude or stupid, I don't want to seem like I'm trashing the branding, it would be with a heavy heart that I even change the name of the source port for branding consistency and IP conflicts... cause I love Doom so much. Shame that such a lawyer-happy publisher resides over the IP nowdays. Sega's out there giving ROMhackers a job making the next sonic game... anyway, don't mind me. I'm pretty good at having way too many opinions. =)

Yes, I agree. But it's easy to retain a certain paranoia about these things. Found this quote in the Zauberer thread that says it best: I'm not saying to change the name. For my part I just want to gain as much verbal dissimilarity as I can. I feel the same way about using GZDoomGPL(an awesome fork), I had considered forking it just to change the name to something like "G-ZedEngine" or similar, but that would likely turn out to be redundant since I'm assuming I'm going to be fork-and-recompiling it to change the name of the EXE to whatever my game is called. There's not *too* much precedent for this sort of thing, and I don't want the project to look like a reskin of Doom to the point I worry if my Decorate code is even unique enough. That could just be me and all this may be out of the scope of the thread, so I won't say much more. =)

Hi, sorry if I'm not supposed to necrobump this, I have some responses to the original post, or more so just my perspective. So anyway, I think Freedoom is amazing as a game development resource, and I think that most people's complaints if they wanted to use it as one *should* be that for them, it didn't completely fill out what they needed, or they couldn't use everything included in their game, because of fit for purpose/varying quality. It's understandable why someone wouldn't view it as a proper full construction kit (even though it totally is, when coupled with GZDB/Slade/etc., and a damn fine one at that, if you want to use Unity Asset Store as a modern comparison, I don't think you'd say the quality here is worse, I'd say it's just as varied). Freedoom has pretty okay sprites, I REALLY love Raymoohawk's work, and there's stuff I'm seeing on the forum that I'm on the edge of my seat to see make it into the IWADs. I would give them good money to sprite a whole game if I had it, no question. Freedoom has amazing textures. Some of them are too similar to doom. There are a LOT of textures. If they match your target resolution, they're incredibly useful. A 64x64 grass texture or 3-frame animated water is a godsend if it fits your project. In working with these I have found that the least helpful ones are very similar to DOOM, you have your DoomyDoors, your GigerDoors, I can't really use those. But that goes doubly for the sprites, so it's easier here. Many many of these textures can easily be used in ANY game, again, prov. they match target res etc. Honestly the more generic, the better in most cases. Oh, so I've been using Freedoom resources for my game, it provides all the graphics thus far, save for a couple things from the awesome Blasphemer, which I haven't fully looked at yet. The textures will almost certainly remain in final release, though a lot of them will have their colours edited to fit in more with the project. Similarly I've been recolouring sprites to fill out multiple enemy attack types, and some of these *could* remain in the final game, but some of them don't fit, etc., and I just wonder if I'd lose some form of "validity as a game" if the characters are seen in other games such as Doominator Wave Survival. The textures worry me less in this regard. It's something I've been thinking about quite a bit but overall it's a challenge to match another game's assets to your overall plot and setting, all that stuff. I'm in the attic combing for stuff too, sometimes I find something old that fits my project better. Great archive! All the projectile Sprites will likely appear in the final release, heavily recoloured. I don't know if this fuels anyone's drive to have made such an amazing free resource for wannabe gamedevs such as myself, but I will say I'm very thankful the project has fulfilled this role for long enough for me to come around and need it. I see some talk of shifting the project's focus more towards *just* being a fun game to play, and that doesn't really worry me, since the assets and license will still be available. It's good that people are keeping this alive at all. I haven't really wanted to say much about the project until it's a little more off the ground, but seeing this thread made feel like piping up and saying that yes, I am using a lot of this stuff as not just a placeholder. =) EDIT: I'll add one thing, that one of the things that could possibly make someone hesitant to use the assets is the name of the project itself. In crediting or just referencing "Check out these sick Freedoom sprites I'm modifying!", I am having to name-drop an IP currently owned by Zenimax. I'd like to stay more under their radar than not seeing as the recent small drama with DoomRL and a lot of activity in the scene that may be drawing their attention more towards the modding community whether for ideas or to keep their bored lawyers in busywork. I considered running my entire project as a Heretic IWAD just so I could lay Blasphemer IWAD under it instead. Currently I'm using the FreeDM IWAD instead, for simplicity. I've also made my own custom 'practically-blank' IWAD that doesn't quite fully work yet, which in the end I'll use, and of course there will be some Freedoom credits in there somewhere regardless, but in terms of just this one issue, I wonder if a name like FreeDM Project or something like FreeFPS/FreeShooter would be more helpful. Obviously I want to give as much credit to this amazing work as possible but in general my strategy is to avoid invoking the word DOOM as often as possible.

old http://imgur.com/YZcYS7H new http://imgur.com/yJyAytT I just used Slade color remapper to suck out some of the more jarring yellows and give a more even tone.

Yes, they are in Doom format, because Freedoom is Boom-compatible and I don't know almost anything about Boom ports(I am using GZDoom-GPL), such as whether they support PNG, so I didn't anything regarding the format. You can do that in Slade3.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/226937100707037194/263301182313857034/Egypt_cln.rar