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ReX

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  1. ReX

    Generating levels with scripting

    @M4ukka Li’lWhiteMouse had created a mapset for ZDooM named Chibi Rebellion, a mission-based game. One of the features is that, upon completing a map you get sent to a randomly-selected map based on some internally-defined scripted rules. I know this is not the same as having randomly-generated maps on the fly, but the scripted rules she set up might be instructive. Also, I’m pretty sure she created some maps that meet the criteria in your original post, although I don’t remember which ones. I’ll dig up a link if I have the chance. Regardless, LWM was one of the all-time great innovators for ZDooM, and I encourage you to examine her work.
  2. ReX

    What difficulty do you play Classic Doom on?

    For virtually every mod I play on UV, and see if I can manage. Of course, the fact that I use save-games makes it easier.
  3. ReX

    Commissioning mods?

    Pretzel Logic is an (excellent) album by the 1970s/1980s band Steely Dan. Mr. Freeze posted the album cover in response to my comment about logic being twisted like a pretzel. [The fact that Mr. Freeze was able to quickly find a clever reference to my post suggests s/he is an aficionado of Classic Rock.]
  4. ReX

    GZoom features

    A couple of points to note. Although dynamic lights and 3D constructs greatly enhance the mood and design of maps, they can get resource-intensive. Therefore, you'll probably need to balance the "wow! factor" with the map's playability. I'm behind you all the way for wanting to use scripting. Best wishes.
  5. ReX

    And the heaven?

    If you've watched Supernatural, you'll know that angels can be real assholes with a God complex (pun intended). So, I can easily see a version of DooM where DoomGuy is battling angels. The show does feature some good angels too. That's where co-op gameplay could shine. Heh.
  6. Curiously, playing DooM (or any other FPS) has just the opposite effect on me. I get wound up and tense and wired, and I often feel a tightness in my shoulders and back after playing for a couple of hours. Some of it, undoubtedly, has to do with the involuntary motion of my body as I try to "dodge" an enemy's attack. I suspect that if I played DooM while I was angry, I'd come away feeling worse than when I started.
  7. ReX

    Commissioning mods?

    One way to discourage this sort of "piracy" is to do what many commercial companies are doing - lock the software and issue a product key to a genuine buyer. Not an easy technique for an amateur modder to implement, but some enterprising member of the community might be able to come up with a suitable alternative. For commissioned works, of course, (as you said) piracy is not as great a threat.
  8. ReX

    Commissioning mods?

    It seems that you are unprepared to engage in civil discourse, so I'll be blunt: Your logic is not just circular, it's twisted like a pretzel. My exact words were: "As a matter or record, the only proof you need is that virtually no one is charging for DooM mods." My point all along has been that DooM mods have largely been free for quite a while. I don't see evidence of any significant amount of commerce involving DooM mods, whether the mods are freely available on idgames or otherwise. In other words, the lack of commissioned mods on idgames doesn't diminish the point that few mods appear to actually be making money. [Whether or not they deserve to make money is something I haven't disputed; I'll go one step further and say that I feel some of them do deserve to make money.] Please note that I didn't once say that people should "work for somebody else and not ask for money". In fact, I have repeatedly said the opposite. To wit: "You have every right to ask for the price that you deem appropriate." "I am not against people marketing their talent. In fact, I wholeheartedly support it." "If I approach you for a custom mod, or I approach esselfortium for custom music, you both have the absolute right to ask me for payment." Therefore, if you have hopped aboard the "merry-go-round-town", it is because you have chosen to ignore what I have stated plainly. Incidentally, I do know that the word "market" or "marketplace" in an economics context does not require throngs of people; it can consist of just two people. So, in this at least, you and I are in agreement. All it takes is a buyer and a seller to agree on the product/service and a price, and the transaction can proceed. If someone wants to commission a modder in the DooM community, that's fantastic. The modder will get remuneration, which might perhaps even be commensurate with her/his efforts and talents. If I want Slayer or Lady Gaga to play at my birthday party I would certainly expect them to charge me a fee. Likewise, if I want someone to create a custom DooM mod for me, I wouldn't be surprised if they expected to be paid. However, if someone in the community were to offer the same service or product for free, I'm more likely to go with the "free" option if the standards of quality were acceptable to me. This doesn't mean I don't support the right of a modder to seek recompense for her/his efforts. Dial down the hostility, please. You appear to be taking this personally, which was neither intended nor even implied. I didn't say that people have never made money off other peoples' effort. [In fact, in one of my recent posts I specifically pointed out that it has happened in the early days of DooM.] I was referring to the current situation, where money doesn't appear to be changing hands for DooM mods. I don't disagree that unscrupulous elements could get involved in the sale of work done by others. However, I was not debating the merits or demerits of commercial enterprise in DooM mods; merely, why I don't see commissioning of DooM mods being widely ready to take flight just yet.
  9. ReX

    Commissioning mods?

    Agreed. It's also pretty much what I've been saying all along. Yes, sadly, throughout most of history artists have been relegated to a life of penury. The 20th century changed that, primarily because technologies allowed the rapid and relatively inexpensive distribution of content (radio, TV, internet), and the increase in disposable income. Now, musicians and authors and actors can acquire a degree of wealth that was inconceivable even a century ago. But, I suspect that neither the people on this community requesting commissions, nor the people prepared to offer it, expect that the offerors can make a living off this. They can certainly hope (and even expect) to make some money off their efforts, but it will likely simply supplement another source of income. A small part of the Gig Economy at work.
  10. ReX

    Commissioning mods?

    As a matter or record, the only proof you need is that virtually no one is charging for DooM mods. This does not imply that mods are worth precisely zero; just that, currently, the price is zero. Asking talented mappers what their mods are worth is not the same as declaring what the community would be willing to pay for them. It's not difficult to understand, and I have not misunderstood. Read my posts and you'll see I have not suggested that if someone wants a custom map they should be unwilling to pay for it. On the contrary, I have said just the opposite. My principal declaration is that, ultimately, the market will dictate the price. The "whole bloody point" is that commissioning will flourish partly based on the availability of talent for sale (supply), and the willingness of people to pay for that talent (demand). Introduce lots of free, high-quality mods (oversupply), and you will generally have fewer buyers of "paid" mods (diminishing demand). This seems to be the current state of the market for commissioned DooM mods. In contrast, in the early days of DooM modding, when high-speed internet access was not widespread, people paid for data disks containing mods that were freely available on idgames. Once again, the basic laws of economics were at work there. The demand was high, and the supply was limited - many people did not want to spend hours and days to download free mods, when they could pay US$ 10 to get 750 or 1,000 mods that they could pick up at a retail counter in a fraction of the time it would have taken to download that many mods. [The fact that most of those mods were trash does not negate the fact that people were willing to pay for them, possibly in the hopes that some of the mods would be worthwhile.] Let me reiterate what I have been saying all along: I am not against people marketing their talent. In fact, I wholeheartedly support it. If I approach you for a custom mod, or I approach esselfortium for custom music, you both have the absolute right to ask me for payment. If I deem that it is a fair price, we'll have a deal. Otherwise, each one of us has the right to walk away. Furthermore, I've been saying that the price I will be willing to pay is based on the value I perceive I am receiving, and my financial ability. As neither of these parameters will be the same for all members of the DooM community, it is very difficult to definitively declare what everyone will consider a "fair price". These factors make the commissioning of DooM mods a challenging proposition at this time.
  11. ReX

    Commissioning mods?

    I said: This boils down to what value the buyer places on the product or service You said: You will dictate the price. It's not a buyer's market, and I can't make you sell for less than you think your effort is worth I never said you don't have the right to dictate the price, or that this is a buyer's market, or that I can force you to sell your effort for less than you believe you should. You have every right to ask for the price that you deem appropriate. But if I think your price is too high I can walk away. Or, I can negotiate with you, and we can try to come to a reasonable middle-ground. That's what's mostly happening in the DooM community right now, except that the price happens to be zero - this is a price that the modder is asking, and this is the price that community member is accepting. Agreed. One interested party, however, doesn't a trend make. That's not to say that a trend will never develop. Think about the rich people who played Nintendo games as kids, and are willing to pay boat-loads of money (at least compared to the original price of the items) for the consoles and cartridges, all for the sake of nostalgia. DooM community members could have made it big, and would be willing to pay hundreds of dollars to commission a creation made solely for them. It's just not widespread yet.
  12. ReX

    Commissioning mods?

    Agreed. I am completely in favor of someone expecting a fee for providing something of value. And I also understand that others might not share my opinion of what I consider valuable. Specifically, what I consider valuable enough to pay for. In my line of work, I market many different clients; some sign a contract, others don't. You produce music; some people buy your music, others don't. The lack of signed contracts/purchased songs doesn't diminish the intrinsic value of the service/product. It just means that people weren't willing to pay that price.The same principle applies to commissioning. That's precisely what I'm saying, with the operative words being "rare" and "fan art". I've been speaking within the context of commissioning for DooM, where it is quite rare for members of the community to pay large sums of money to get the custom mods they want. And a large part of the reason why, is that high-quality mods are given away for free as fan art. My point in no way suggests that artists (specifically, DooM artists) shouldn't be paid for their work, if they so demand. The question I have been asking is: How many people would be willing to pay what the artist's time and end product might really be worth?
  13. ReX

    Commissioning mods?

    I think you're missing the point. Yes, perhaps you would rather pay for something made by a member of the community, and not by Romero. But I can see other's being willing to pay for a one-of-a-kind map made by someone that many consider a legend of this game. This boils down to what value the buyer places on the product or service. You would pay for a Ribbiks or Mechadon map; if others were equally willing, then a marketplace would form, and Ribbiks and Mechadon would be compensated for their time and effort to the extent that the marketplace allowed. But the fact that such a marketplace is not widely in evidence, suggests that the community might not be ready for the commissioning of mods.
  14. ReX

    Commissioning mods?

    In the consulting world, pricing options fall into a variety of categories, including: 1. Firm Fixed Price: This is the category into which esselfortium's songs would fall. 2. Cost Plus Fixed Fee: Mik5757's pricing might use this formula. S/he feels it would take 8 hours of work @ $20/hr, which presumably covers Mik's wages and profit. 3. Time & Materials: This would typically give the buyer only the agreed-upon time, whether or not the product/service was completed by the seller. When it comes to art, however, (and I consider much of what we do in DooM art) the "normal" rules of buying and selling go out the window. There is typically less agreement on the value of something artistic, than something material (like a sandwich). Throw art-for-free into the mix, and successful commissioning becomes even more challenging. Until people commission DooM mods we will probably not know if $20 per hour and 8 hours for a map are typical for pricing in this marketplace. [And, yes, people did pay for DooM mods. But they were buying a retail product, not commissioning some work.]
  15. ReX

    Commissioning mods?

    And this, precisely, is what a marketplace is all about. It doesn't matter if there is an extremely talented mapper (or even a professional one) that is offering to work on commission. Unless a buyer considers the product worth the price, and the seller feels the price is worth the effort, the commission will not be given. When it comes to DooM, there is a minuscule chance of a single commission being worth hundreds of dollars. I'm not saying the mapper hasn't spent an amount of time that, elsewhere, might be worth a lot of money. Or that the end result doesn't have a great deal of value. Or that the mapper doesn't deserve adequate reward. I'm simply saying that it's unlikely someone will fork out large sums of money for something that many others are giving away for free. One caveat I see is where someone like John Romero offers to work on a commission. [This falls into the category of a "collector's item", which I have previously touched upon.] Many in the DooM community would undoubtedly be willing to pay a pretty penny for a unique Romero map. But this is an outlier, and isn't representative of the DooM marketplace. Having said all of this, I am all for free enterprise. If someone wants to create maps, or art, or music, or any other resource for DooM, and wants to sell them, I say: "Have at it!" But ultimately, the success of the enterprise will be based, in part, on the monetary value placed on the product by the buyer.
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