BiZ

The wad was updated, link should be the same https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/c0f3e4bnsff8pgnk2ikly/DBP_62.zip?rlkey=58iqg2sc5iwbfrsjv4vh84tjo&dl=0

Tempest Enterprise v1.1 https://drive.google.com/file/d/11arCQc05VhdOCxKNnyAmn2If7Is7bhJo/view?usp=sharing An update for this wad was pushed out a few days ago. Maybe @matador can update the first post when he sees this. Thank you to the players for the bug reports. Changes:

Buddy, you keep asking me if I realize this, or realize that like I'm some oblivious child...So let me ask you, with all due respect, do you realize that when I quote you I'm talking to you and when I quote somebody else I'm talking to them? Look I understand your position, we've peeled that onion. You like a thing. Somebody else doesn't. You think that if they would have just done the thing this other, more correct way (according to you), then they would change their mind and also like the thing you like (or appreciate it more or whatever). I get it, youre passionate about a thing, thats cool. What are we supposed now go back and forth about some hypothetical review that you think could maybe, possibly, happen at some point in the future? Where some wad you enjoy doesn't get the score you were hoping for, and that some how leads to a cascading domino effect where people no longer appreciate said wad as much as you think they should appreciate it? I have no interest in that.

it was absolutely not the secondary aspect. The post that started this was about the reviewer "doing it wrong" by pistol-starting instead of playing this wad continuous...at least on its face. Now after some sussing out it seems like the real issue was that "the reviewer criticized the creator that i hold on a pedestal." As for the alleged personal attacks, its a futile endeavor to argue about imo. Just scroll back a dozen pages to the controversy surrounding the btsx e2 episode. This reminds me so much of that. If you want to have an actual dialogue about it regarding this episode, i went back and watched the video again but I'm really struggling to figure out where the personal attacks are, so a timestamp or quote would definitely provide some concrete footing to facilitate the conversation you want. (I'm not saying you are wrong, just that we are all going to have different perspectives, interpretations, levels of sensitivities, etc.) In general though, i just disagree with this notion that players are only allowed to have or express opinions on the work and not the author as if the two things exist in a vacuum. That seems like pure fantasy to me. I'm struggling to think of any critic that doesn't sometimes reference the author in regards to to their work, that doesn't try to divine their intent or motivation behind the work, that doesn't notice or reference trends or quirks across the creators body of work.

yeah, if you don't care about leaving monsters behind there is plenty of time. If you want a max, you are going to have to learn the map and play a bit aggressively at the end. there should be a patch out the end of this week to address this map and any other bugs which have cropped up so far.

heh, good thing he isn't reviewing choose your own adventure books. What I took from your original post (and this is just my interpretation) is that you thought the review format should change to accommodate this wad or other old wads. I don't personally see the value in it and would rather the criteria and metrics for judgement stay consistent, otherwise the outcomes (grades) are useless. If an A level is "fun and visually memorable" this week, but "short and has ammo for the gun I picked up in the last map" next week, then the grades get muddy. So my point was that while maybe this thing was done a certain way in the past, now its being looked at with this different lens and it either stands on its own legs or doesn't. And this always happens through time inevitably.

We can look to the past to understand what the standard was then, but like all work, it will inevitably be judged by the standards now. life can only be understood by looking backwards, but it must be lived forward...or something like that.

Thanks for the feedback galileo.

The wad was updated with a quickfix that adds in missing mapname graphics, updates the text file, and (hopefully) fixes a crash on map03. If you see this, re-download from the link in OP. Thanks and enjoy!

Can you two tell me what port you were using? Trying to track this down for fixing and seems like it is port specific. thanks!

Thanks for the clarification. Sincerely appreciate the effort of you two, we don't have a lot people who do midi work over on the projects so this is a big help. Hopefully I didn't come off as complaining, but I always try to be upfront with people. The midi pack has been posted in the bugfix thread and everybody really likes what you've done.

Wow, thanks for sharing this. Really awesome to see contributions from outside the dev thread, its highly appreciated. I briefly browsed through everything and the mix sounds way, way better volume-wise. I'm wondering though about what exactly all the tweaks were? I noticed right away, for example, that the MAP17 midi is missing quite a bit of notes on track 14 (cause i listened to this on repeat to death while I was mapping) and I'm personally not a fan of the alterations, tbh. I'll put this in the bugfix thread, but we may need each mapper to kind of go through and make sure they are okay with it where changes were made outside of volume balance (some might not be as picky about it as I am, but the music is the soul of the map to me).

Thanks for the feedback. Generally speaking, items aren't counted in a max of a map (at least in terms of recording speed demos) so we didn't really factor that in with regards to the story stuff in the wad, and I didn't take that into account with my map either. I know the wad had an extended development cycle, but truth be told, all the story stuff was thrown together in the last week. At one point we considered using something like animated midtextures instead of actual objects in the cut-scenes, but I decided it was better not to bother the project lead with requests for more custom assets right at the end of the dev cycle when the crunch is high, last minute updates to maps are being furiously made, and internal betas being compiled. Also its important to note that in cl2 we only have a limited number of textures that can animate, so burning a slot on some one off textures was also a consideration that had to be weighed. In the end this is the route we went. I am sympathetic to completionist players though, and in the future, if something like this manifests again, i would definitely give it more consideration. I'll suggest if maybe we can alter the dehacked to untag the area map and blursphere as counting toward item counts, but no promises. For this one you may just have to take a page from the speedrunning playbook. Whenever monsters that can't be killed, or secrets that can't be tagged are found, we note it and less than 100% is considered a max.

Congrats to all the mappers and really appreciate all bug reports from the players. We will try to fix as much as possible. Don't think much else is drawn from that game except a couple borrowed sprites...(if the story is the same you can burn me at the stake) I can't speak for everyone involved, but this thread is the first time I've heard about these sprites being ripped from the game (shoutsout to DW legal dept). The dev thread for this wad is an open book, so you can browse yourself, but i don't ever remember a mention of hobs barrow or where the NPC sprites came from. I definitely believe in giving credit though, so I will be updating the credits map. The dev cycle for this one ran a bit over the deadline and the release was rushed out before the project lead left on a trip. Its entirely possible that he just forgot to include a full credits list since there were lots of other errors in the readme file (or you can attribute subterfuge/malice as the default motive)...Either way we will see what he says, and then adjust accordingly. Hope you enjoy the wad!

Finalized and now on idgames: DBP40 - https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/dbp40 DBP42 - https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/dbp42 DBP43 - https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/themes/xmas/dbp43 DBP44 - https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/dbp44 DBP52 - https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/dbp_52 DBP55 - https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/dbp_55 DBP56 - https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/dbp_56 DBP57 - https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/dbp_57