Dr. Zin
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Status Updates posted by Dr. Zin
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I think I am going to get a new gun this year. I am currently pondering these options:
M1 Garand
The real thing, these are decommisioned guns from the U.S. Army sold by the Civillian Marksmanship Program.
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History
Not Going to be available much longer
Should be pretty accurate
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Fairly Expensive ($450-500)
Luck of the draw as to what rifle they send you
Uses common .30-06 ammunition, the gas system cannont hand many commercial loads so therefore handloading may be nessecary
Heavy
Kicks Hard
Yugoslavian SKS
Unissued battle rifle. Ten round fixed magazine, some versions come with a bayonet and muzzle mounted NATO spec rifle grenade launcher.
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Cheap ($200)
Cheapish ammo
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Even unissued will probably need refinishing due to being stored in comsoline
Not terribly accurate
Questionable quality
Slug Gun
I want to go deer hunting this fall. A new slug shotgun may cost less than buying a slug barrel for one of the guns I already own.
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Practical use, will not just be a range gun
I know my shotguns, and how to pick a good one
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Kicks like the dickens
Already have two shotguns
Probably will not see much use besides hunting
Delayed Gratification
You need to be 21 to buy a handgun, and in May 2008 I will be. If I saved I could buy something really special, like this: http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=007B&cat_id=051&type_id=003
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I would get a really nice gun
Handguns are a totally different form of shooting
Ammo is affordable
Damn that is a fine gun
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Have to wait
Keep a Lookout
Sometimes a used gun comes in that is a steal, like a pump 6mm deer/varminting combo rifle I saw this summer for $250.
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Good Deal
Could Be Useful
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Not a sure thing
I might be able to combine one of these with the pistol if I am lucky. Anyways, vote!- Show previous comments 31 more
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The .30 Carbine round only is defficient when you are comparing it to the contemporary battle rifle rounds, like the .30-06, .303 British or the 7.62x54r.
The .30 Carbine far surpasses most pistol rounds. The muzzle energy is similar to a .44 Magnum, and at 100 yards it actually has retained more energy than said magnum because it is more ballistically effiecient. There is simply no comparision between the .30 Carbine and auto pistol rounds. Remember, the M1 Carbine was designed to replace many 1911 pistols with a weapon that was more accurate and more effective.
On another note, if you want to get a Garand or a Carbine I'd get my stuff together and order one from the CMP. The Carbines are probably going to last only a couple of months and the higher grade Garands are getting rapidly depleted.
Ordering is pretty easy too. You fill out a form and have it notarized and then provide evidence of participating in a marksmanship activity (a copy of a Hunter's Education card will suffice) and membership in a recognized club (you can join the Garand Collectors Association for something like $20 a year). You send the papers and in a few weeks you get the rifle. Pretty damn cool.
http://www.odcmp.com
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I am so sick of hearing people say stuff along the lines of "The South seceeded from the Union because the North wasn't respecting thier states rights and was taking advantage of them econimically" or "The Civil War wasn't about slavery!"
The Civil War was all about slavery. The Confederate constitution included slavery articles. Secession Documents cited a threat to slavery as a reason for splitting off.
Sorry, this stuff just pisses me off. I am sick of reading treatises from some idiot who trys to play the "The MAN was putting us down!" card.
I have no problem with southerners who have a brain, but some of these guys are as bad as Neo-Nazis.- Show previous comments 19 more
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lupinx-Kassman said:
Why do you like to bash Wacky so much?
If he has a problem with it, he can tell me and I'd stop. But so far he hasn't said anything to me so I'm assuming he doesn't take it seriously, which is good because it's not supposed to be taken seriously. I rarely mean it when I'm being derisive to people, especially on the internet. There are times when I've made my best efforts to help him and offer advice, however measly it may be, and anyway I hardly think I'm the worst of the wacky-bashers. -
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It seems in the last few months I have become enamored with pistol shooting. I have had a Ruger Mk3 Deluxe .22 since early June, and today picked up a Smith and Wesson Model 28 in .357 Magnum, which can shoot both magnum cartridges and the lighter .38 Special ammunition.
S&W on left, Ruger on Right.
This is a special edition with wood grips, fiber optic front sight, and slab-sided barrel. Its a hell of a deal.
The Ruger Mk3 is a descendant of the the Ruger Standard Auto, the pistol on which the Ruger company was founded in 1949. The Ruger .22's have pretty much set the standard for .22 pistols since then. It is fun as hell and cheap to shoot.
The Model 28, six inch barrel.
The Smith and Wesson 28 is a descendant of the original .357 Magnum revolver (which was later named the Model 27). It is an N-Frame (originally designed for .44 caliber cartridges). Smith and Wesson built their early .357's on the N-Frame due to durability issues with the smaller K-Frame (designed for the .38 Special). K-Frames have a section cut out of the bottom of their barrels to clear the crane that the cylinder is mounted on. This section is prone to cracking with hot magnum loads.
Yes, those little chambers are for .357s.
As you can see, the N-Frame has no need for a cutout in the forcing cone area. These guns will withstand extensive use of full house magnum ammunition. Unfortunately, these loads (158gr at 1400fps) are difficult to find; most domestic manufacturers stopped producing them after S&W released K-Frame magnum models that could be damaged by their use. Such ammo is still available from Fiocchi and Sellier and Belloit, however.
I'm hoping the S&W shoots as well as the Ruger tomorrow.- Show previous comments 17 more
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Dr. Zin said:
Eh, it turns out the problem was easily fixed by buying a 20 dollar pack of endshake bushings, taking apart the cylinder, and installing two of them. Now the gun has negligible endshake and is looking to be fairly accurate (it shoots better than I can). The real problem now is how damn expensive ammunition is. I am saving my brass and trying to scrounge the range for cases people dispose of (which few revolver shooters do) so I can send it off to a commercial reloader. Cast bullet reloads are a third of the cost of factory new ammo.
Anyway, I am suprised at how mild the .357 magnum is. I was expecting an intense recoil impulse, but instead the gun snaps back a bit more and makes an admittedly impressive boom. It certainly is not like shooting a shotgun slug.
Why not reload yourself? The initial costs are kind of sucky, but you'll save the cost in ammo within a year if you shoot a lot. -
Naked Snake said:
Why not reload yourself? The initial costs are kind of sucky, but you'll save the cost in ammo within a year if you shoot a lot.
I don't want to drop a few hundred dollars on a basic single stage reloading kit and accoutrements. Plus reloading is time consuming unless you have a progressive setup, which itself will costs hundreds of dollars more and is prone to breakdowns. I am perfectly fine paying less than $5.50 a box for light .38 wadcutter reloads.
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I guess I am an S&W collector now. The lower gun in the picture is a Model 66 made in 1971. The price was so low in todays market that I was compelled to buy it. The 66 is basically a stainless version of the Model 19. They are .357 Magnum K-Frames with adjustable sights.
The K-Frame isn't the best suited gun for the .357, as the forcing cone at the end of the barrel is not very thick. This is compounded by the fact that there is a cutout in the forcing cone at 6 O'Clock so the crane which the cylinder is mounted on fits in the frame. Because of this weakness the magnum K-Frame's barrel is prone to cracking. However, this can be mitigated by not shooting magnum ammunition that generates more than 1200 FPS of velocity; most instances of cracking occur after significant erosion of the forcing cone caused by high velocity ammunition. The stainless guns are also noted to crack less frequently than the carbon steel guns, likely due to the increased resistance of stainless steel to gas erosion.
That said, that other revolver in the picture is my Model 28, a larger N-Frame .357 that will eat a steady diet of the hottest .357s and beg for more. The 66 will be primarily shooting .38s.
Its hard to get a good picture that shows the size difference between the 28 and 66. Probably the best indication is to compare the distance between chambers on the two cylinders. If you can find an older post of mine when I got the 28, you can see how much thicker the forcing cone is on that revolver compared to the 66.
Oh, and for shits and giggles here is a clear picture of my FAL, as I finally have my camera back.
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Bought a Marlin 39a Lever Action .22 today (but still have to sweat out the Illinois one day waiting period on guns). Its an older version, with no checkering or hammer-block safety (you have to manually lower the hammer to a half cock notch). Long barrel for a .22, 24 inches. Pics when I get it.
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Went to an indoor range today (normally don't like them, but haven't gone shooting in too long) with my .22 rifle. I have two magazines for the gun, and the protrusion that engages the magazine release snapped off (this is a Thompson/Center .22 Classic fyi). Magazine is no longer held in the gun.
Son of a bitch!
What's worse, I suck at shooting rifles. My shotgun shoots tighter groups for me than my .22.
Note to self: Buy another shotgun, not a centerfire rifle as originally intended.- Show previous comments 1 more
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Dr. Zin said:
Went to an indoor range today (normally don't like them, but haven't gone shooting in too long) with my .22 rifle. I have two magazines for the gun, and the protrusion that engages the magazine release snapped off (this is a Thompson/Center .22 Classic fyi). Magazine is no longer held in the gun.
Son of a bitch!
What's worse, I suck at shooting rifles. My shotgun shoots tighter groups for me than my .22.
Note to self: Buy another shotgun, not a centerfire rifle as originally intended.
I'm glad I have a huge tract of land for hunting and plinking at my aunt's. I don't usually shoot at paper targets, usually just cans, whatever else and soemtimes coins, usually nickles, dimes and quarters because they are easier to see compared to a penny, unless the penny is exceptionally new.
However, I can consistantly hit multiple targets in sucession (they were not in a row, just randomly strewn about amongst branches and on this old-ass rocking chair) with my Marlin Model 60. The 100+ year old bolt-action .22 my dad has is a pure tack-driver. Beautiful firearm. My uncle once used it to shoot a .22 round from between a tree and he had carried the bullet that was stuck in the casing with him for years until he lost it.
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I was moved by BBG's latest thread to ask for some outside advice for my latest firearms purchase.
For reference, at this point I have a pair of .22 rifles, a pair of shotguns, plus .357mag and .22 handguns. I really enjoy shooting the handguns and the rifles. Right now I am looking for another gun that will run $500 or less. I want to get into centerfire rifle, particularly since it seems like the golden days of semi-auto rifles may be on the wane as surplus parts dry up and legislation is looming.
Ideally, I want an FAL rifle, but this doesn't look like it is going to happen. All of the affordable ones have been swept off the market by panic buying. I had a lead on a rifle, but the guy was looking for $800, which I simply don't have. Oh, and there is also the fact that I would never shoot it because .308 ammo is ridiculously expensive.
Anyway, here are my options as I see them:
- My preferred shop has an Egyptian contract FN49 in 8mm for $500, and I could probably talk them down a bit in price. The FN49 was the predecessor of the FAL (the FAL can be thought of as an FN49 built to take detachable mags and use a pistol grip and stock attached to the trigger group). However, it is limited to a fixed 10 round magazine, and has quite a bit of finish wear (as you would expect to see on a 50 year old rifle that served in Egypt).
Pros:
*Cool looking, historical
*Shoots full power cartridge
*Surplus ammo is fairly cheap
Cons:
*Fixed magazine
*Cheap ammo is corrosive (thus major cleaning after every shoot)
*Exterior of gun is worn
- Greek return (but US made) M1 carbines are available from the Civilian Marksmanship program at $500 for a service grade example. They lack the power of a full power cartridge, but they are also the size of a .22 rifle. Fifteen round detachable magazines are reasonably inexpensive.
Pros:
*Cool looking, historical
*Light and handy
*New production ammo is reasonably priced
*Can accept detachable mags
Cons:
*.30 carbine is basically a souped up pistol round, it does not compare will with true rifle rounds in range or power
*Condition can be iffy (a Service grade rifle rifle will be good mechanically, but some exterior wear is expected)
*Availability of inexpensive ammo can be off and on
*Have the price of mags on top of the price of the rifle
- A local shop has AR-15 lowers in stock. I could build my own custom rifle. However, this would be the most expensive (minimum $600) of the options nad there are several issues I have with the platform.
Pros:
*A new custom gun
*.223 ammunition, while a light rifle caliber, is decidedly more powerful than .30 Carbine.
*Steel case .223 is reasonably priced
*I already have three 20 round magazines I bought as trade fodder
Cons:
*Expensive
*The AR-15 receiver is constucted of aluminum, and is pretty much only available with plastic furniture. It is not totally logical, but I want my guns to have steel receivers. I think they are more durable, look better, and wear better.
*Brass case .223 ammo is expensive, and some ARs have trouble digesting steel cases.
*The AR-15 blows propellant gasses back into the action, which means that cleaning needs to be more frequent and is a PITA.
*The Ar-15 Kit companies are running a 3-4 month waiting list for kits.
- Lastly, there is the option of getting another pistol. I believe I made a post a year or two ago where I commented I wanted a Browning Hi-Power. Well, my preferred gun shop doesn't have a Browning HP, but they do have an Argentinean FM model. FM was licensed by FN (owners of the Browning brand, and makers of the FAL and FN49) to produce a clone of the HP. While it lack the finishing detail of the FN, it still is well made and is quite a bit cheaper at $325 (possibly with some wiggle room). Although I already have a .357, it is more expensive to shoot both .38s and .357s versus the 9x19, plus it does not have the capacity of the HP.
Pros:
*Looks classy
*Ammo is comparatively cheap
*Inexpensive
*Cheap mags
Cons:
*This is a pistol, and I already have two of them. I would like to start shooting some centerfire rifles, but I already like shooting pistols.
*Again, this is a pistol and is unlikely to be heavily hit by new legislation. I do want to own a semi-auto centerfire rifle.
Anyone have any advice?
Oh, and to compare ammo prices:
9x19 Luger: 20c per shot (reloadable)
.223 Remington (Steel): 26c per shot (nonreloadable)
8x57 Mauser: 26c per shot (nonreloadable)
.30 Carbine: 31c per shot(reloadable)
.223 Remington (Brass): 46c per shot (reloadable)- Show previous comments 1 more
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Naked Snake said:Out of those choices, I would go with an M1 Carbine. .30 carbine is comparable to .357, and .357 is nothing to sneeze at. External finish isn't really important if it has a good bore and goes bang.
I can second this. I was recently given an M1 by my father and it's a great little gun. Very little recoil, and it's very accurate. Ammo isn't too expensive, and like Snake said, magazines are very common. If you're looking for a tack driver or plinker, you really can't go wrong with an M1.
I'm currently looking into getting an SKS as my next centerfire rifle. I don't know too much about them, but I do know they fire the same ammo as an AK, which is dirt cheap. I like the aesthetic of older combat rifles, too. -
Naked Snake said:
If you want a gun that isn't used, for $600 you can get a damn nice AK : http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/rifles/ak-47-and-rpk-rifles/p/hungarian-amd-65-ak-47-rifle%2C-feg-receiver%2C-w-side-folding-stock-/cPath/209_214/products_id/3115 <--just take the stupid extra grip off and you can use 30 rounders.
If you want a dirt cheap centerfire rifle to shoot, get a Mosin :
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Russian_Hex_Receiver_Model_91_30_7.62x54R_Mosin_Nagant_Package.html
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Russian_Model_91_30_7_62x54R_Mosin_Nagant.html
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/7_62x54R.html <--currently has surplus, 800 rounds for $150.
I'm not really a big fan of the pistol grip style AK. I was thinking about getting a Saiga, but prices have shot up since everyone is converting them to the military styling.
Also, I am left handed so bolt-actions and me don't get along very well. I'm also more of a fan of semi-autos.
Snarboo said:I'm currently looking into getting an SKS as my next centerfire rifle. I don't know too much about them, but I do know they fire the same ammo as an AK, which is dirt cheap. I like the aesthetic of older combat rifles, too.
SKS are nice, but around here they are bringing inflated prices due to the panic buying (I have no clue why). If you like classic military rifles, you would love the FN49. It is kind of like an SKS meant for use with full power cartridges. Too bad they tend to be very expensive (outside of the local shop Egyptians seem to bring a minimum of $600, and the other contracts go up from there).
So I guess the vote is for the carbine at this point. Still, the FN49 is extremely tempting. There is nothing quite like ten shots of 8x57 Mauser on tap. But then again, the M1 gives fifteen shots of a .30 caliber .357 equivalent. For further reference, I would probably say that the Egyptian FN at the local shop would probably qualify as service grade on the CMP scale. Its a shame, as there is a refurbished rifle for $40 less than the one I am looking at, but the last two inches of the barrel are devoid of rifling. If the barrel was good on that one it would be a slam dunk.
Decisions, decisions. -
Dr. Zin said:
I'm not really a big fan of the pistol grip style AK. I was thinking about getting a Saiga, but prices have shot up since everyone is converting them to the military styling.
Also, I am left handed so bolt-actions and me don't get along very well. I'm also more of a fan of semi-autos.
SKS are nice, but around here they are bringing inflated prices due to the panic buying (I have no clue why). If you like classic military rifles, you would love the FN49. It is kind of like an SKS meant for use with full power cartridges. Too bad they tend to be very expensive (outside of the local shop Egyptians seem to bring a minimum of $600, and the other contracts go up from there).
So I guess the vote is for the carbine at this point. Still, the FN49 is extremely tempting. There is nothing quite like ten shots of 8x57 Mauser on tap. But then again, the M1 gives fifteen shots of a .30 caliber .357 equivalent. For further reference, I would probably say that the Egyptian FN at the local shop would probably qualify as service grade on the CMP scale. Its a shame, as there is a refurbished rifle for $40 less than the one I am looking at, but the last two inches of the barrel are devoid of rifling. If the barrel was good on that one it would be a slam dunk.
Decisions, decisions.
Have it counter-bored, presto, fresh rifling and crown.
EDIT : for $700 you can get a CETME with 2 20 round mags from classicarms.us . It's no FAL, but it's another nice .308 battle rifle, so it may tickle your fancy.
If you buy a Saiga, in order to use magazines with a capacity greater than 10, you must be 922(r) compliant, so basically you'd have to replace the gas piston with a US made piston or replace the fore-arm with the Tapco Saiga-specific Galil forearm and then use US-made Saiga magazines.
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I got a phone call from the college that I applied to (Aurora University). They told me that my transcript didn't have 30 hours worth of classes on it, so I needed to send a high school transcript. I told them that the grades for my other classes that I just finished must not have been recorded on the transcript I sent them, but that I would go in today and have another one shipped.
Anyway, they told me once they get the new transcript I am admitted as a Biology for Secondary Education major. No more of the hellhole that is Community College!
Well, I'M excited.- Show previous comments 1 more
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High school students. You can work pretty much anywhere, have lots of vacation, and get decent pay after you have been working a few years. Alot of my family are teachers.
I don't know where it will take me, but I hope in a few years I can move out of the suburbs of Chicago to someplace nice, without alot of people. Like Iowa. Then I'll just work to buy books, food, broadband, and bullets. -
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I haven't been around here in like... four years. Grad school will do that to you. How have things been going? Any good wads worth playing?
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Mine?
Heh, worth a flick. Here's some of the more notable recent stuff:
-Doom II the way Id did.
-Unholy Realms
-Mayhem Mansion -
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My birthday was the 21st, and it was definitely one of the better birthdays I have had. Got to go out to lunch with three good friends, and had a nice dinner with my parents. I also was able to link up with a guy to buy a rifle I have been actively seeking for six months (and desired for years), an FAL. The particular rifle I bought is built on a Brazilian IMBEL receiver with a mixture of British, Belgian, and Austrian parts (of the ones I was able to identify) and has Rhodesian markings on the trigger-housing assembly and bolt.
However, the best part of the day was receiving a letter accepting me as a doctoral student in Entomology at Iowa State University, with a concentration in Systematics. I start there January 2010 (I finish up my undergraduate degree in December).
Hell of a birthday present, that is.-
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:) Glad to hear you finally nabbed a FAL and now you can buy handguns too :-D
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/308-2.aspx
http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/ammo-for-rifles/308-win-7-62x51-nato-/cPath/12_43 -
Naked Snake said:
and now you can buy handguns too :-D
You are thinking of a year ago.
Anyway, buying ammo is the one thing that is going to suck. Well, that and how damn heavy the rifle is. I need to get a reloading setup for this and my .357. The rifle might need a new gas piston, as the current one appears to be one of the notorious "Two Piece" CAI compliance parts. They have a nasty tendancy of shearing or bending themselves when the rifle cycles. Luckily pistons are pretty cheap, and the rest of the gun seems in good shape. I might post some pics when I get my camera back.
Ever end up getting that .223 Saiga?
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Does anyone remember a song from a late 90's luxury car commercial? The commercial was filmed in black and white, and IIRC it involved the car drving past someone on the side of the road. The song was kind of atmospheric, and had the word cruelty in it. Does anyone know the name of the song?
I have a little bit of it stuck in my head, and people here seem to be able to recall songs well.
