captmellow

Looking at the chat log, I'd have to say a few things: Jon^D & Fraggle echo my own sentiments most closely. I do not share Jayextee's concerns re: behavior of monsters. From my cursory read, I didn't quite grasp what relapse was getting at re: the build.exe.

Some really good points made in that chat log, like: 1. call it a fwad or something to make it not work w/ original doom. (perhaps make a certain byte in the iwad (like the one that makes a pwad into an iwad) something that doom.exe/doom2.exe wouldn't support, but could easily be coded into current source ports & enabled w/ a command line parameter.) Perhaps we could make sure the maps included exceeded the linedef limitations of the original Doom engine, therefore insuring incompatibility.

Hmmm... Contributed original graphics, sounds effects, midis would be properly credited, & could be freely distributed only within the iwad. They could not be used to make additional wads. Contributed graphics, sounds effects, midis which were taken from a royalty-free 3rd party entity (e.g. sfx disk, free textures site, etc.) would be properly credited, & freely distributed & used in any manner--it wouldn't do for us to arrogate any sort of copyright on such work. Is this something along the lines of what you meant?

True, true. And making sure they line up properly in existing pwads is important. I think the textures are the only thing that is so contingent upon closely following the scale & pattern of the original. I think all the sprites could vary wildly from the originals, & would have to be, anyway. Well, then, let's get cracking on these textures, eh? We should probably each call dibs on the ones we are working on, to prevent redundancy.

Okay, this is what's currently working in the Yet Unnamed Doom Game editor: 1) You can load a background graphic using a standard windows program file selector. It gets resized to the level size (1280x1024). Don't worry, the level is bigger than the editor or game window. You can scroll around using the arrow keys. If you get to the edge & keep scrolling another second or two, you wrap to the other side of the level. 2) Right click to toggle the pointer to a block or pointer. When it is a block, you can place blocks wherever you want with a single left click. When it is a pointer, you can click on a block to remove it. 3) You can save the map to a file that you name. The map won't be packed like originally planned. Rather, it is mapname.txt. It's pretty simple, just a total number of the blocks, & then the individual xypos of each block. The background picture should probably be bg.bmp (keep in its own dir), or maybe mapname.bmp (can share dir w/ other maps). Next on the agenda: 1) Map loading. This will be pretty easy, & maybe w/ the July 4th holiday coming up, I can get it done. 2) Other shaped blocks 3) items 4) perhaps a toolbar to let you select from this rapidly expanding inventory of map items. Or maybe just another pulldown menu.

Fraggle, I appreciate you inquiring this of Carmack. So, we will need new everything. Just as well--I cringe when I see TC's that use ripped gfx. Please disregard my reprehensible post re: pulling stuff from different shareware (id, raven) iwads. Music: I am fairly certain that Fanatic wouldn't mind contributing music, & if he does help then we are well taken care of in that dept. Monster Sprites: I have obtained permission from Iikka Keranen to use his monster sprites in his POVDoom pwad, & have already merged them into a doom2.wad. He did an amazing amount of work in modelling the Doom1 monsters & rendering them in POV. They are nothing like the original Doom monsters, so this may be a good step forward. Admittedly, they are rather whimsical & even goofy-looking, but they are very well-done & fun. SkaDoomer, how about doing some original replacements for Doom2 monsters like the chaingunner or mancubus? Other GFX: This will be a lot of fun coming up with new weapon, ammo, projectile, & puff gfx. Textures: I would like to see the likes of Ola &/or Nick contributing some stuff. The Darkening2 textures would be great, wouldn't you think? In fact, having the maps from the Darkening2 would be pretty cool. I imagine Afterglow would have some good input in this dept. Maps: Lüt, those maps you mentioned would be great. We would have to re-texture them, though. Wouldn't it be interesting to include some dm maps as well? Perhaps have less than 32 sp maps, & the balance of dm? Just a thought, given the post-Quake trend of including dm maps in games. SFX: Maybe I can see what I can find. In my tracking endeavors, I do run across quite a few samples sites. I'm sure Fanatic knows of some good places to look as well.

I got permission from Iikka to use his POVDoom monster sprites--properly credited, of course. Does your iwad have new maps? How are the textures? Midis? I am interested.

Nice work. Keep them coming!

This is what I am interested in--something that allows one to run any doom port w/out buying the now hard-to-find retail Doom. Yes, that is a concern I was referring to about textures tiling properly in the original levels.

In the early 90's, I ran a bbs which I arbitrarily called Mellow Land. Friends immediately said the name was appropriate for me, so I kept it. Among other things, I was running some interbbs tournaments in the game VGA Planets. One of my callers on our team called himself Captain Bob, which I rather liked the sound of. I took the moniker Captain Mellow later on, after the demise of the bbs & the advent of widespread www usage.

Got some ideas for the editor in my head: 1) Load desired graphic for background. You would use a paint program to do the bg. 2) Place collision blocks onto the bg graphic. You would line them up with the ledges etc. which you painted on the bg graphic. These collision blocks would turn invisible in-game. 3) When you save the map, the editor counts the collision blocks & writes their xy pos to a text file. Then the bg graphic & the text file get packed together & compressed. That's what I have so far. Now to start "coding". ;-)

LOL dude thanks for your concern re: klik, it has been noted. And it is pretty ambitious, too huge in scope for one guy. This will be all phased in. First up will be an editor for the sidescroller engine. We'll get some people helping out w/ maps. Multiplayer would be easier to do first, since there's no ai to mess with--just weapons, items, physics. Then we can plug in monsters later.

I was wondering if you intended to use the word "deluded" as in "delusional, having delusions," etc. rather than using the word for "watered down", i.e. "diluted". I began to suspect that it was a misused homonym when I saw another person use the word in that manner. Anyway, if using the word "deluded" was your intention, you may want to correct that.

Hey there Nash, I just checked your site over there with Marcello. He's a pillar of the klik community--I rely on a few of his objects. I'm surprised you haven't mentioned your own Doom sidescroller--the screenshot looks good.

Flynn ran headlong into the first room in E1M1. He automatically turned left & darted up the stairs towards the green armor room, firing his pistol ahead of him to take out one of the shotgun-toting zombie sergeants which stood at the top of the stairs. He hurdled the fallen form, grabbing the shotgun as he passed by. He spun around, backing towards the armor as he blew away the other sergeant. He dropped off the ledge to the left of the stairs & hit the button on the side of the pillar. Another sergeant lumbered towards him. Flynn dropped him with a shotgun blast as he ran out into the blue room & through the opening by the window. He found himself out in the familiar outside area. He ran toward the nukage pool & leaped over to the other side, bypassing the blue armor for now. A section of the wall had lowered, revealing the dark interior of the computer room above. Flynn looked up into the opening to see the ceiling & walls. No zombies had walked into view yet. He jumped up to the ledge & walked inside to dispatch the zombies within the room. BREEEEEEEEEP! A whistle blasted behind him. Flynn stopped & turned. "What the...?" A man in a blue uniform & sunglasses approached him, clipboard in hand. Flynn gaped at him. "Doom Police," the man said. "You just jumped up to that ledge. This level wasn't designed for that. You can only enter this room by the door from the blue room, or from the zig-zag room if you go into the outside area & through the tunnel. I'm gonna have to write you up." He pulled out a pen & yanked off the cap with his teeth. "Not only that, but you looked up. You know that this game isn't designed for that. Look at all the distortion you caused to the walls." He began scribbling on his pad. Flynn was stunned. "But, I was too busy looking for the zombies to notice the distortion. & I jumped up because it's fun to take this shortcut." The cop shook his head. "Did you even stop to think of the consequences of your actions? You look up, you look down. So you can see things a little better. If id had wanted you to look up & down, they would have put you in Quake, not Doom! "But what's the harm in it? & so what if I want to jump over things I couldn't before?" "Son, you've just ruined the continuity of this level, & any other level you go through. All the hard work that's been put into those maps, & you're just gonna skate on through? Not while I'm around, mister." The cop pointed his finger at Flynn, & began to wag it at him for emphasis. "You're gonna hoof it through, just like all the Doomers in my day did. We didn't have all this pansy hopping around then. We walked to the armor & back, through 3 feet of nukage, both ways. & we were thankful for that armor! Did we complain about not being able to jump up to the ledge & walk around? No! Did we cry about not being able to see the snipers in the computer station? No! We fired blind, & let autoaim do the rest. Autoaim was good enough back then, & it's good enough today." "B-but," Flynn stammered, "I like being able to jump & look up & down. It's FUN!" "Well, son, that kind of fun comes at a cost. Have you ever stopped to think of how much it upsets other people to watch you jump & look up & down? I didn't think so. Well, son, there are still some people with traditions around here, & they aren't happy one bit to see you jump over those carefully placed knee-high barriers." "But..." PWAAAANNNNNNGGGG!!! A gong sounded somewhere nearby. Flynn spun around to see an elderly, stoop-figured man dressed in flowing robes. The man's features were serene. His hands were hidden by the flowing sleeves of the robe. He held out one hand, palm up, to Flynn. "One true path there is," he intoned. "One way through the level go. Forsake the jumping, & the way you will know. You must not deviate from the way of the mapper. You have forsaken the true path, & the mapper is displeased. You must go back & start anew, without the wrongful jumping." Flynn looked at the man, sensing that there was more to be heard, & was silent. The man extended his other hand, also palm up, & spoke. "You have gazed up & down & beheld the forbidden sights. Your eyes are seared with the visions of things that were meant to be left unseen. You have seen the walls stretch & bend. You have seen the tiling sky texture, or even worse, the stretching sky texture. You have looked with the wrong perspective, the perverse mlook!" "Waitaminnit!" Flynn held out both hands as if he was pushing away the cop & the elderly man. "I know that the maps don't flow like they were designed to when I jump around. I know that the walls & monsters don't look right when I use mlook. But I can see more now. I can go further now. I am having fun, which is why everybody else comes here. I don't mind the problems. I'm not expecting Quake or Unreal. I don't expect you to follow me. I don't expect you to agree with me. Just let me enjoy the new things that I can do in here. You, mister Yoda-Whatever, can follow your true path, & you, Doom Cop, can.. go eat doughnuts, I guess." The cop & the elderly man stood silently, watching Flynn as he hefted his shotgun & ran off, seeking zombies & imps.

I am interested in helping out with an open source iwad. I have obtained permission from Iikka to use his POVDoom monster sprites, & I am waiting to see if he will let me use some of his textures. I was thinking that we really should have new maps in it as well. Would you be interested in pooling resources? If not, the more free iwads the better.

Agreed, the Abuse engine would rock. If I were a coder. However, I'm using Multimedia Fusion. Sort of a poor man's Flash, coded by the French guys at Clickteam.com. Destroyer is using Game Factory, another klik app. There's a pretty huge klik community, & coders are adding extensions for MMF to add quite a few functions. I am leaning towards sidescroller myself (easier to map for), but thinking of the more complex maps possible w/ isometric is also appealing.

Hmmmmm... I can sense a little hate here. Let me remind you, that hate is the emotion that these guys felt too when they raped/shot/stabbed someone. In other words > Hate is an emotion you can't remove from a human being. So, as long as there will be humans, there will be serialkillers, rapists, murderers, etc. Um, dude, don't even presume to know what is going on inside these guys' heads. I don't. Re: hate, you are correct in that we are inseparably entwined with our human-ness, but that doesn't excuse criminal acts (I'm sure that's not what you meant anyway). Yes, we are all flawed & capable of despicable acts. That's where volition comes in--we resolve to not act upon our impulses. We quell outrageous thoughts when they arise. We bite our tongue when we feel like ripping on someone. That's sort of where the "turn the other cheek" & "don't return evil for evil" is coming from. & yes, I feel a bit like a hypocrite because I feel like I was ripping on you a bit, & I'm sorry if I came across that way.

modplug.com

I was big into Sabbath (the Osbourne years anyway--Iommi has been beating a dead horse for years). I owned Just about all the albums w/ Ozzy singing. Big Motorhead fan as well Ace of Spades was a classic album, as was Iron Fist. I even checked out some older Lemmy when he was with Hawkwind. I like older Metallica--Puppets & earlier. Especially Ride the Lightening, that is for me Metallica in absolute top form. Their current stuff (Load) is aptly named. When I heard no leaf clover I was finally convinced of what I had begin to suspect--that they had begun to suck. But I will never forget seeing Cliff Burton play Anesthesia Pulling Teeth live at the Aragon. He was going way up the neck of that bass, bending notes like a lead guitarist. Older Maiden was another big one for me. # of the Beast was their best. Priest had a great pair in Tipton & Downing. They way they tag-teamed through all the solos was awesome. I loathed the pop metal/glam bands. The newer stuff is great as well. I love how music has changed over the years, especially how it has gotten away from the glam stuff. Sure, it's still there, but the stuff from Seattle opened a dam-burst of honesty. Now, there's so many regular joes out making great music, it just seems to be so much more accessible. Plus, I always want to be hearing & enjoying what people are coming up with these days. The last thing I want to do is stagnate in my music, become locked into an era like an old grandpa--even if I am getting up there myself.

Ah, I forgot about that. Actually, given the mileu, it probably wouldn't be Flynn anyway. More like one of his descendants.

Rick, you rock. Holy cow, dude, in that opening scene you cranked the imagery to 11 & let it wail! Do you have any published stuff?

LOL Marc, you're so unbiased. ;-) ROKS is very cool, with lots & lots of players. Too few & it's a snipe hunt.

True, putting them into jail doesn't solve the real problem. Executing them does. You know, I doubt that you have ever been a victim of a violent crime, & that you say things like that because you only deal with the cerebral concepts, not the reality of what these people are like. If, like me, when you were 5 some guy held you at gunpoint in your apartment, telling you that if you cried he would kill you, while 3 other guys raped your mother, you would want to see something happen to the criminals other than having them attend meetings or lay on a couch in a shrink's office. I think that people who feel as you do should all be moved into the same community, & then have all these criminals, thiefs, rapists, serialkillers, etc. move right in with you guys, like as neighbors and roommates. Then let's put your concepts to the test. You can give them a hug & tell them you understand them & that they're not responsible.

/me claps Hear, hear! There seem to be more incentives to get into prison than deterrents to stay out. "Guilty as charged. Your sentence: free room & board for the rest of your life, at the expense of your victims. Victims, get back to work so you can pay your taxes." We don't have a justice system. We have a legal system, designed to make lawyers & judges rich. & the more rigamarole these guys dream up, the more $$$ they make.