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Status Updates posted by SaladBadger

  1. ...And I am now stuck on thinking about how games have progressed over time gameplay wise.

    The biggest thing that comes to mind is controls. Wolf3D/Spear were really simple, only allowing a few keys to be bound. Unfortauntly modern-day FPS setups are harder to set up on wolfenstein, due to the fact that there cannot be decicated strafing keys. This was a downfall for me, but I suppose I could get used to holding the right mouse button to strafe.

    Then comes doom. It implements the basis for modern-day FPS controls. Dedicated strafe left/right keys, and mouse turning support. That's how most people tend to play anything these days. Quake then comes along and gives people mouselook. It's a pain to use though since it requires a key to be pressed down (you can enter +mlook into the console or an AUTOEXEC.CFG file though). Duke Nukem 3D, on the other hand, allowed free look at a quick keypress without needing to hold it.

    This leads to an interesting question. Did anyone use pure mouse controls back in the day? Moving using the mouse is probably one of the hardest things to reliabily do. I'm surprised that it has stuck along for so long. It just isn't worth it. Every computer had a keyboard so you have plenty of buttons to move with there.

    And now on the subject of gameplay itself, it's interesting to see how games evolved. Wolfenstein was simple. Shoot nazis with guns while keeping your distance to avoid high damage. Or was it? The limited controls, as well as the damage of the guns made it a challenging expirence, as standing next to a SS will basically kill you instantly, whereas at a distance if they start firing you have a chance. Then on some episodes you have monsters like hitler's ghosts, which implement a slow projectile cannon. The projectiles are slow so a careless player could stumble into them. Also, rocket bosses have a little difficulty because you need to avoid fast moving projectiles with the limited controls. This is easy though but if you screw up you take damage. And lots of it. (It's interesting to note that every bit of damage I took from the death knight was actually from his chainguns, not the rockets. I used to be horrible at dodging the rockets from any rocket boss).

    Doom made the hitscanners a little simpler. They are inaccruate, and always do consistant damage independant of range. Or did it make things simple? the farther you are the more chance of a zombieman missing. At a distance it's going to be much harder to be hit by 2 or 3 pellets from the shotgunner, whereas at close range you may take two or even all 3 pellets. And then the rest of your enemies are projectile throwers. In doom this makes plain sense since it's much easier to dodge. Of course, the enviroment can hamper your dodging ability a bit.

    Doom also implemented floors and ceilings of various height. And this change would change the gameplay of all future FPSes. Monsters can attack from above or below. Of course, Doom aims a bit for you (you still have to get the enemy generally center though), but in later games all autoaiming was removed. It was soon enough expected that player could do this aiming by themself.

    So in general Wolfenstein, being one of the first mass marketed PC FPSes set a base to be improved on. And improved on it was. Of course these days only thing people can ever think of are graphics and "realistic" gameplay.

    (tl;dr version: InsanityBringer beats wolfenstein and realizes that things have changed :P)

    1. Show previous comments  17 more
    2. fraggle


      Danarchy said:

      I remember watching one of the early video game shows back in the mid-90s, and they were showing off some kind of mouse that was supposed to revolutionize FPS gaming. It had a kind of joystick on it meant for mouselooking and they were showing it off using Duke Nukem 3D. I thought the thing looked clunky and awkward, and I guess the rest of the gaming community agreed with me.

      Sounds like the Logitech Cyberman. Incidentally, the Cyberman is the reason that Doom always says "Wrong mouse driver - no SWIFT support" on startup - the Cyberman used a modified mouse driver to provide the extra inputs.

      The Cyberman was supposed to be a 6DoF controller, like the Wiimote. A while back I was looking into how the Cyberman API worked (there is code for it in the Descent and Heretic sources), with a view to creating a DOSbox patch to allow you to play DOS games with Cyberman support (like Doom and Descent) using a Wiimote or similar.

    3. Danarchy


      That seems similar, but I'm not sure if that's what it was. IIRC this show was in like 1997-1998 and it was being touted as something new. It could be it was an updated version of that, though. I also remember the joystick part being round, but I could be wrong.

    4. Creaphis


      myk said:

      the forward-equals-up mode is more expected from a mnemonic or rationalized starting point.

      Indeed. I wouldn't argue that "normal" mouselook allows for more proficient play than "inverted", or vice versa, but I would agree that "normal" mouselook is the more "rationalized" choice, which is why a logical fellow like me might express surprise when confronted with "inverted" mouselook's popularity. I don't agree that "inverted" mouselook has a parallel in desktop computing, however. Consider that a forward movement with the mouse already "equals up" for the movement of cursors in GUIs. If "inverted" mode was analogous to "dragging a window*", then while playing an FPS a user of this mode would move the mouse to the right to look left. Perhaps such input would also have a physically intuitive basis? After all, when one looks left, he has rotated his body to the right, beneath him. :P

      * I think you may have switched your analogies? They make more sense to me when transposed, but I quoted yours anyway.

  2. I occasionally check DW on my phone, usually not logged in since I'm too lazy to put in my credentials, so I get ads. For whatever reason, these ads are now doing this weird thing where they scrape thread titles from here, and then grab complete random images. They got a picture of HDoom sprites for the Doom Slayer is the original doomguy thread, and user avatars in a bunch of other cases.

    1. Show previous comments  5 more
    2. SaladBadger


      Seems a little strange to advertise DW content to DW, but I dunno maybe I'm missing something here. In any case I do like it a bit more than getting those stupid GirlsX Battle ads while I'm in the middle of a public space.

    3. 42PercentHealth


      Wait, what?


      Linguica wants to get paid for what he does -- fair enough. So he begins to allow ads on the site -- understandable. The ads are for his own site -- WHAT??

    4. Linguica


      The idea, as I understand it, is that it shows a bunch of internal links alongside a couple of sponsored ad links, to FOOL people into looking at them / maybe clicking them.

  3. ... And the first day of finals week is tomorrow. It's going to be fun balancing celebrating (if I even have any plans to do anything) and studying...

    Ok, so most of my studying is finished already... It's just this painfully large physics review that's going to kill me...

    1. Show previous comments  4 more
    2. SaladBadger


      Printz: end of the year. I'm still one of those lame high-school students though. I'm graduating next year

      40oz: Maybe a techbase. I like techbases.

    3. 40oz


      This is a couple hours overdue, but it's done. And it's good!

      Happy Birthday InsanityBringer!

    4. SaladBadger


      40oz said:


      And it was a fun map. Thanks.

  4. Oh fuck BTSX E1 MAP19 is actually a nightmare for me. After a bunch of failed runs I had to probe the map out with -nomonsters just to get a feel for where things are. not my most elegant moment with this mapset.

    1. Show previous comments  3 more
    2. SaladBadger


      Oh jesus then, if MAP19 is on the lite end of the spectrum, I honestly have no clue what to expect with real slaughtermaps.


      This is going to be a fun adventure.

    3. Fonze


      The lost soul cap is something that should stay in the 90's with concerns about Doom's performance on old DOS machines. Nowadays that cap does nothing but break large maps. Always keep it off.

    4. Marcaek


      Lost soul cap can potentially render some situations unwinnable due to low ammo, keep that in mind.

  5. Has anyone made a map themed off of Slough of Despair that isn't as bad as the actual one? Or hell, a map that takes that name and develops it into some actually deliciously hellish swampy map?

    1. Show previous comments  3 more
    2. Xyzzy01


      "trying to arm up"


      I see what you did there...

    3. esselfortium


      Espi did a remake of Slough of Despair in the first Flashback release: https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom/d-f/fbdemo

    4. SaladBadger


      Oh, cool, I didn't know that existed. Thank you! I liked Espi's other work, so I'll give it a go soon.

  6. its kind of hard to accept the SSG as unbalanced when the game has offered since the release of registered doom 3 options that do more damage.


    I guess its unbalanced with the regular shotgun maybe since it uses ammo more efficiently? but overall it fits in just fine.

    1. Show previous comments  2 more
    2. galileo31dos01


      Oh ok, no problem, but I still don't understand what you mean by unbalanced... Ever since people told me that calling HMP "the most balanced skill" is not very appropriate, I lost its definition :(

    3. Phade102


      IMO, if the super shotgun was ported into doom 1, it'd be unbalanced due to the limited monster pool. However, the new monsters added in doom 2 were built to be balanced around the SSG. Otherwise it'd take what, 12 shots to kill a baron, 4 to kill a revenant, who knows how many to kill a mancubus, all with the normal shotgun!

    4. Nine Inch Heels

      Nine Inch Heels

      @Phade102 The baron is a doom staple, it has not been introduced in Doom II, it was always there. Also, the normal shotgun fires 7 "pellets" per shell, whereas the SSG fires 10 pellets per shell for a total of 20 per shot, which means the SSG is a lot more ammo efficient on anything that takes 2 SSG shots or more. This also means you can't simply multiply the shots you'd need to score with the SSG by 2 in order to determine how many shotgun rounds you need single barreled, because the math doesn't work that way.


      Cacos for instance take like 5-6 shotgun hits for the most part, whereas the SSG will deflate most of them with 2 well placed bursts.

  7. I dug the colormaps out of GBA Doom II's rom file. Conveniently it has just enough levels to work in the original game, so have an eyesore:



    I'm still trying to dig out the map data but I'm not having any luck. I have a few potential leads and I'm trying to map out what I can to make it easier to find without falling into unrelated data, but its elusive. I have no idea what format it could be stored in.

    1. Show previous comments  1 more
    2. Maisth


      Looks really cool! but it hurts my eyes 

    3. Voros


      What format was the colormap lump in?

      Other than that, it certainly looks way too bright. Although if playing with a resolution similar to a GBA, it wouldn't be that noticeable, would it?

    4. SaladBadger


      the colormap format was the exact same format as the classic doom colormap. Mostly. The invuln and unused entries weren't there, and there's a bunch of extra levels I haven't found the use for, but its just a standard 256x32 byte table.


      I have found some leads to the maps. I think. I've found a table with 34 128-bit entries, which appears to contain three pointers (three 32-bit variables that increase as you get further in the table) and one size variable (it doesn't get larger as you go through the table. It gets larger when its in the index of a larger Doom II map). 34 is the amount of maps in GBA Doom II (since chasm and industrial zone are split), and the table is shorter in Duke Nukem Advance, a game using the same engine with less maps than Doom II. I have found what block of data the size corresponds to, but I can't make any sense of it. I have found what might be vertex positions: This is only a hunch, I'm assuming so because there's a pretty consistent pattern of a (generally increasing, so its stored in a really odd manner...) first byte and then a second byte that remains fairly low (since most Doom maps don't extend too far), but they definitely aren't vertex pairs. Instead it seemed to be just a bunch of potential coordinates. At least, that's what I thought, but overwriting this data did absolutely nothing visible to the map, no matter how much I corrupted. I don't know if I'm hitting the wrong map data or something, or have just misread it entirely, but I'm stumped.


      I can't make any sense of the rest of the data either, and I fear it might be compressed, which would go beyond what little I know how to do. Fuck. I'll keep on poking at this until I can get something to happen.

  8. I noticed poking at the user information there's a way to link a steam account and a few others to your DW account. What does this actually do? I don't notice a place for links to these kind of profiles like the old forum software had.

    1. Show previous comments  1 more
    2. SaladBadger


      Ah, simple enough, but it makes sense. Cool. I guess for actually linking profiles then the about me information is sufficient enough.

    3. Linguica


      Maybe one day I will add linked accounts to people's profile pages, but I figured the fact that the "about" page has a rich-text field was good enough for now

    4. Linguica


      Plus I didn't want to just add them since people might want to use a social media account to log in here but not have that account be public knowledge.

  9. I was going to make a blogs post about how I lost somewhere around 80 pounds in the last two years, and perhaps ask for advice on how to avoid snacking since that still happens to be a bit of a problem for me, but when I went to do so, blogs was no longer a thing, so that's not good

    1. Show previous comments  1 more
    2. SaladBadger


      I've been doing some calorie counting, but I should probably do it more rigorously. Seeing the numbers add up would definitely discourage further snacking, for sure. Thank you for the app recommendation, it looks like a pretty nice one, and I believe my sister is using it or a similar one to great effect.

    3. Ichor


      Actually, you just did make a Blog post. Blogs may not exist anymore as a forum, but the Blogs threads were moved over to the status section.

    4. sesq


      right now i'm in the process of starving myself.


      Not the best option?

  10. how much easier is BTSX E1 on HMP? I've been playing through it on HMP pistol starts since it sounds like it gets difficult and I'm not great at doom, but overall the first crop of maps hasn't been too bad. And yet so many of the DWIronman deaths were within this first crop. hmm

    1. galileo31dos01


      When I tested the first two (or three maybe) maps, same skill as you but continuous, at some point in the second map I run out of rockets, shells and bullets, and to be honest I wasn't wasting my ammo with unnecessary minorities, but yeah I'm sure that's part of the idea of the wad, to think of strategies to make the most of your limited available arsenal. No idea how much harder would be on UV. 

    2. GarrettChan


      I tried to use IDDQD to get through first 6 maps to see the difference. Honestly, except for the SSG trap on Map01, most changes are kind of subtle. Sometimes they remove like 1~2 monsters, or sometimes they change Chaingunner into a Shotgunner. Then, on the supplies side, there's 1 extra Plasma gun (none in UV) and 1 extra Soulsphere (1 in UV inside a secret) on Map04. There's a Megasphere (none in UV, but there are a Megaarmor and a Soulsphere in 2 different secrets) on Map06. Judging only from this, I guess they just think what if you don't want to look for a secret.


      Besides this, whether doing single segment may have heavy influence to this. The difficulty level doesn't reach the point you can't even solve the problem by scumbag saving/loading. By the way, sometimes doing pistol start may be easier because players like me has some "must save ammo for next level / must have 100 health to exit" BS OCD to deal with. If you make good use of the supplies in the level, it should be fine. Can't say for the later long levels though.

    3. GarrettChan


      Well... the wrong propositions of "in UV" bug me a lot... but I can't fix it. Sorry for this stupid post.

  11. My surgery yesterday was to replace a faulty bone in my ear. My hearing's been crap the past few years, one of the causes being that one of the hearing bones wasn't flexing right. The surgery was to replace it and it seems to be working a little now. It'll take time to fully take effect according to the surgeon.

    1. SaladBadger


      side effect: the way they were mucking around with my nerves while doing this has a ~5% chance of causing one half of your tongue to taste like metal for a bit. I was one of those lucky folk. I hope it goes away quickly.

    2. Phade102


      Ah, so from your previous post, I take it they replaced that bone with a piece of metal? I have hearing problems myself, though I doubt from the same issue as yours. Glad it worked out though!

    3. DeathevokatioN


      I'm glad it worked out, and goodluck with your recovery! :)

  12. I unironically like d_stalks which may just be yet another piece of evidence that i have the worst taste in the world.

    1. Da Werecat

      Da Werecat


    2. Bashe


      D_STALKS makes me pretty nostalgic for some reason. You're fine.

    3. Teivman


      I really like all the music in doom 2. 

  13. I know people around here aren't that huge into Tim WIllits and I don't think this is going to help that


    Apparently Carmack's also backed Romero up on this but I lost the link to that.

    1. Captain Ventris

      Captain Ventris

      Romero's got memory like an elephant, y'all.

    2. Jaxxoon R

      Jaxxoon R

      Willits always seemed fake af so this is no surprise. He should lie low and let Marty do the talking from here on out.

    3. SaladBadger


      Things are getting interesting. Despite Romero, Carmack, and American stepping up to refute his claims, he's now claiming that he actually dug up evidence of these supposed map stubs


      Buuut... Romero's right on the money when he mentions that multiplayer only maps are not an idea came up with during the Quake era. In addition to the numerous examples he mentioned in his post (including our own community making plenty of them before Quake), I can add that Descent shipped with a pretty barebones set of deathmatch maps. You can't even load them in singleplayer out of the box, they were intended for nothing but DM. Romero's been a bit wrong on a bunch of things over the years, but I feel three people countering the claim from that era is enough to cast plenty of doubt on this.

  14. well, now the dw forums is notifying me of new responses if I have a thread loaded. Given that I don't remember this being here when I last made a comment about it, I presume Ling has just turned it on. Thanks, Ling, this will be helpful.

    1. Nine Inch Heels

      Nine Inch Heels

      Just wait until it ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-chainguns you ;-)

    2. SaladBadger


      The chaingun cha-cha is not a very pleasant dance, but sometimes you just can't avoid it.



    3. leodoom85


      That notification feature comes in handy and it helps greatly when you're gone or something. 

  15. after making that pet pain elemental map, I have came up with the worst idea ever: mister doomguy's pain elemental maid.


    which would be the same map but with a new sprite for the pain elementals.

    1. esselfortium


      Mister Doomguy's Maid Elemental?

    2. Teivman
  16. We've seen things that flip maps upside down, but being able to navigate Doom maps upside down with 6DOF controls is quite a trippy experience







    1. Armaetus


      This is pretty cool.

    2. ImpMan11203



  17. finally getting some more work done on moonfall now that its the summer and I have time time to, but making a decent moon turf texture is proving painful. what I have so far:





    1. Misty


      It looks very interesting. I rarely see earth's moon appearing in Doom wads,only in Echelon megawad. 

    2. Not Jabba

      Not Jabba

      Lunatic, Valiant, and Nova 3 all have moon texture sets, so you might check through any of those if you haven't already. I agree that the current ground texture is kinda rough, but I'm sure the map will look nice overall, and I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with it.

  18. ah crap, EE defaults the skill to ITYTD if you simply go into the console after starting EE and using the map command. Was wondering why BTSX MAP12 was remarkably easy...

    1. galileo31dos01


      What is EE? Eternity something?

    2. SaladBadger


      EE is the Eternity Engine

  19. I'm in a weird spot where I believe demo compatibility is one of the more vital things for the Doom community since so many demos have been made over the years, and as a result PRBoom+, EE, and Chocolate Doom are all really important ports. But I'm also at the belief that not literally every port needs to play back vanilla demos with 100% accuracy (or at all). But you have to have some that do so, so those old demos don't become inaccessible wastes of bits.

    1. Jayextee


      Same. It's fine that, say, GZDoom and 3DGE don't have legacy demo playback; even if I wish the latter had its own demo format (it doesn't currently) -- these are feature-led ports and thus it's not as high a priority.

      prBoom+ and its successors though, I believe it is incredibly important to retain legacy demo playback; it's part of why this particular branch has endured for so long and is the de-facto standard for many runners.

    2. fraggle


      Personally, I've never begrudged *ZDoom for not supporting vanilla demo playback. For me, as a source port author, it's an entirely understandable decision to have taken.


      There's a fundamental decision you have to take when developing a source port, because Doom has a big pile of subtle bugs (see Doom Wiki's list or the Doom Movement Bible), and either you fix them or leave them in place. But demo playback depends on the old buggy behavior, so really the options are:

      • Leave the old, buggy behavior in place
      • Fix the bugs and break demo compatibility
      • Fix the bugs and maintain demo compatibility by keeping both the buggy and fixed versions of the code in place (turns the codebase into a mess)

      So: compatibility; correctness; maintainability. Pick two. Chocolate Doom, *ZDoom and PrBoom+ represent the three different outcomes.


      Given *ZDoom's overall design direction, fixing the bugs and abandoning demo compatibility seems like the most reasonable decision to have made. There's a lot to be said for having a source port that's easy for beginners to pick up and that just fixes all this stuff. But really it highlights that we're better off overall having multiple source ports with different objectives rather than a single uber-port that tries to do absolutely everything.

  20. I feel vaguely tempted to remaster some of my old shit maps like zpack e2m2 but I really wonder if there's anything i can do to untangle that travesty and turn it into a sane map.


    would be a fun experiment to see if I could make it not shit

    1. SaladBadger


      I mean, I probably can't, its too far gone and shit, but it'd be interesting. Thinking on this a little more, I kind of wonder if I can even get away with N5 at this point, while I like the style it definitely was overplayed and fuck man, its pretty obvious I was simply trying to emulate kdizd. I'd really love to try to turn it into a nicer aesthetic that has a lot less cruft over the years from kdizd emulators (and frankly kdizd itself)

    2. mrthejoshmon


      I do things like this sometimes (go back and tinker with old maps), it is a fun exercise and can surprise you with the results, I recommend doing it just to see the outcome as even slight texture differences can completely change a map.

  21. Anyone around here done proper monitor calibration? My monitor looks like shit, and while a lot of that's because its a crappy acer branded monitor from 2007, I'd like to beat out at least the best images I can get from it. I found this set of images but I don't know if I can actually trust it. The first contrast test mentions a set of boxes with linearly increasing brightness, mentioning the jump in brightness should be equal across all of them. But that doesn't make any sense, the monitor should be displaying in sRGB which by nature is not linear! Other sources mentioned a program "QuickGamma" which seemed to be somewhat useful but I couldn't get any good results out of it. The rest of the guides at the top of googling looked pretty terrible, honestly.

    1. Linguica


      The lagom test images are excellent for a simple calibration. Do the black level and white saturation tests, then do the gamma calibration, and go back and forth until it seems about as good as you can get it. 

    2. SaladBadger


      Hmm, I'll give those a try, looking at them and based on what I know they do seem to make sense. The contrast one was throwing me off so much since it goes against almost everything I know about computer monitors, I'm wondering if they're intended for monitors that can actually go to a gamma of 1.0 or something.

  22. I'm getting somewhat okay at Doom and Quake, but somehow I just cannot do well in FPS games like Wolfenstein: The New Order and Half-Life 2. These games that focus heavily on hitscan weapons and enemies.

    1. KVELLER


      Games like HL2 actually tend to be easier for me overall. You just have to try to stay away from the enemy line of sight as much as possible. I mean, you obviously have to get out from cover to shoot them, but you get the point.

    2. FragrantGingerCalamari


      if doom aint for you try garrys mod

  23. I used to think archviles took a while to kill making them even more dangerous, then I got into the habit of actually using RL, PR, and BFG in a sane manner.


    now they're still dangerous to me but they die much faster than I'm used to

    1. Phade102


      The main reason arch viles can take a while to kill is due to what they can do. If they're dropped into a room of dead enemies and are given time to revive them, you have to plow through those enemies again to get to the arch vile. Killing them quickly is definitely the best choice.

    2. leodoom85


      Now it's a routine to kill archies. Before, anyone had been scared the first time that saw the archvile and his attacks and insane speed. Now, you know that's the first priority to kill before any monster.

  24. tomorrow I will lose another bone in my body and get another piece of metal in its place.


    this brings the running total to 204 bones and 2 pieces of metal in my body

    1. MidnightMage


      That really sucks. Surgery is never fun, hope everything went well today.

  25. I am so awful at working with the stock Doom II textureset but I get this feeling that if I start working with a textureset its not going to actually improve my texturing all that much, so I'm just going to continuing grinding through with the stock resources at the moment.


    I need to dig up some maps that use it really well, at some point.

    1. leodoom85


      You can do it man. Having stock textures shouldn't be a problem, it's all creativity...