Visplane Overflow

It's only against the rules if you get caught. Just do it right. Microsoft is providing the service, they are free to set whatever rules they want to, no matter how much you disagree. Freedom works both ways, isn't that a bitch?

Myk, you're a smart guy - you should realize that evolution versus creationism is not the ultimate battle between Science and God. Teaching evolution in school doesn't guarantee interest in science, nor does teaching creationism guarantee an interest in religion. It is not the desire of creationists to KILL SCIENCE for Hell's sake, nor should it be the desire of Darwinists to kill God. You people need to get a grip on yourselves. Creationists aren't out to destroy the scientific community, and as far as I can see here, they've never prevented any specific research from being done. However, on the reverse side of things, Atheists are generally out to destroy religion (Which would more accurately make them anti-theists, not Atheists). Freedom of religion is a human right, so be careful =P Besides, it's a misunderstanding that Creationists are incapable of understanding or learning traditional sciences - indeed, generally the only place in science where the two camps disagree is the origin of man. Here's a question for everyone though, assuming that evolution is 100% accurate, why aren't there more bones from the 'in-between' stages of animal life? Evolution doesn't happen overnight, so we should have trillions of skeletal remains from animals as they were evolving. However, we seem to have only have remains from animals after they've evolved specific, different features from their cousins. As I understand it, animals can't suddenly sprout wings overnight; they have to continually develop them from protruding masses that resemble wings for many generations until they're functional. Or something like that. Anyway, I'm interested to see what you guys have to say. EDIT: I seem to be receiving a lot of flak about stifling knowledge and reason in society, which is generally what discussions of evolution devolve (hyuk hyuk) into. This is making it really hard not to invoke Godwin's law. I never said anything about knowledge or reason, in fact - I wholeheartedly support anyone that wants to go out and learn whatever they want to learn. I just think evolution is just another bullshit theory. I also think that creationism is just another bullshit theory. There's this mentality among Darwinists that goes something like this : 'If you don't abhor God and religion - then you are the enemy, and you deserve whatever happens to you. If you don't invest everything you have into evolution, you're trying to keep people dumb, and you're worse than the enemy.' How can people have such unbelievably strong feelings about a theory that [i]attempts]/i] to answer the relatively meaningless question "Where did we come from?".

Gonna have to side with you on this one.

You're a goddamn moron, aren't you? For the last time, I am not from the South, I am an Atheist, I do believe in science. I would ask you to produce something that completely and undeniably proves evolution theory or something that completely and undeniably proves that someone's God exists. These tasks are both impossible feats. (...if it's a fact, why is it called a theory?...) Consider this : "Everything that happens on this planet either happens as a result of natural processes or as a result of human/animal action." This is the belief of someone that puts his faith into science. Someone with faith in God, on the other hand, would tell you that God has created these natural processes and is still therefore the creator of the world, man and the universe. God can do anything, anything at all. Thusly, his existence cannot be proven or disproven since he has that mystical, reality-bending super power. With that out of the way, you did mention in your post that creationists will "throw a wrench into the scientific community and use strong arm tactics to breed fear and confusion about valid scientific theories in the populace." - that's a pretty boisterous claim, one that you would need to back up with facts. What strongarm tactics? Which creationists specifically? What wrench exactly? Has anyone come to any personal, physical, mental or emotional harm specifically because a group of people decided to believe that God put them on the Earth? And don't start that line of bullshit about religious wars, and the related crimes against humanity - keep in mind that science keeps murdering people as well. Technology and religion are both generally morally neutral - it's what you do with them, that makes them good or bad. Some people use the bible as a sword; others as a shield. It is my belief that indoctrinated Atheists such as yourself reject God solely on the basis that it makes you feel in control, or wiser than other people. Why is it okay to burn bibles, but not to burn text books? My stance, once again is that your opinion regarding creationism or or evolution is pointless, because belief in either concept does not have any true consequences for anyone but the individual.

Yes, I concur. In fact, that's what I was trying to say in the previous post. It's what I meant by "The 'can't be proven' rhetoric is ... worthless". I'm still waiting for a legitimate point that would lead one to conclude that Creationism is intrinsically bad, or that Evolution theory is intrinsically good. Assuming we can find neither case to be true, I think we can safely say that it doesn't fucking matter as much everyone says it does.

You can't disprove that there is an all-powerful deity watching over you, due to the inscrutable nature of gods - He could choose not to ever reveal Himself for His own reasons. Evolution theory cannot be proven, therefore it's pseudo-science? They can do it too. Do you see how that's erroneous logic? It doesn't get us anywhere. The 'Can't be proven' rhetoric works both ways, and is effectively worthless in establishing whether creationism and evolution are good, bad or neutral concepts. I still say that both beliefs are just as irrelevant, since a person should have the freedom to make up their own mind about things. You don't want to be against freedom, do you? Oh and before anyone gets confused, I'm an Atheist, don't start thinking I'm some bible thumper.

I highly doubt that any of us here are surrounded by other humans. Oh wait...dinos? Nevermind.

Doesn't help in what way? By being so vehemently opposed to Creationism, you could be accused of obscurantism as well. There's no reason to be afraid of teaching both subjects in school - there's little reason to teach much of either to begin with. I'm still failing to see where belief in evolution makes your life or others provably better? Or creationism making things provably worse?

So basically you're upset that they want their theory to be taught alongside, or that they want to remove the teaching of evolution? Let's work on that for a bit. Teaching both theories is not an issue - since the omission of one is just that - removing extra data for people to consider on their own, which as intelligent, enlightened people, you should take issue with that. Pushing for only Creationism in schools does sound like a problem - but that's up to the school to decide (as this represents the majority opinion of the area the school is in), and as well the kids are always free to research this stuff on their own. That's what libraries are for. I would assume you believe that an intelligent person could not even contemplate a silly idea like Creationism, or Intelligent Design, so what's the harm in placating the Christians and letting people decide on their own? The way I see it, the less strife we create the better. Try to avoid pissing people off where possible, as it creates needless problems. I don't think the theory of Evolution is something you must know in order to be a rational, intelligent human being - but this opinion is an extremely unpopular one. Oh, and saying that 'the fundies started it first!!' is not an acceptable reason to not be civil towards them. Just like if they said 'The Darwinists started it first!'. Inappropriate. So once again, where specifically is the lack of faith in the theory of Evolution actually hindering scientific progress? To be honest, I don't think many die-hard Christian fundamentalists were going to be involved in the cure for AIDS or cancer. So...let's hear it.

Uhh, maybe Fundamentalists aren't the only ones that think the world is out to get them - I never said anything about atheism, morality, eugenics, racism or even suggest that I'm a good old Christian - I just made mention of the fact that arguing about evolution is really pointless, since neither side of the equation promotes or hinders any scientific progress. I also suggested that it's mostly used by people as a platform for establishing mental superiority over Religious folk. Don't put words in my mouth, I still want to know how somebody else's belief in creationism stalls the scientific community.

Okay, I've gotta ask - what bearing does your belief or lack there of in evolution have to do with anything? Believing, or not believing in evolution doesn't help anyone with anything - it's just a convenient way for 'intellectual types' to feel mentally superior to church people. Basically - get over yourselves. There's no need to go out of your way to piss Fundies off. Can't we all just get along?

Does anyone else remember that offensive movie 'Enemy at the Gates'? What a horrible film.

Okay, so I have a better idea, the urinator should be forced to serve in the military. That ought to make him respectful of the veterans.

I'm usually all for the middle ground, but really, have you got a better plan? It's not like either of us are living in China, where the civilian population is living in fear of its government, its police force and its military. In the more civilised parts of the world, we have checks and balances to help make sure power isn't abused. So far, it works 90% of the time for 90% of the people. No system is ideal, but some work better than others - ours is tried and true.

Well I am sorry for calling you a punk, but I hear so much anti-government rhetoric that it's nearly mind-bending that we still have a structured society anymore. I don't believe people need to act like sheep, and I also don't believe that it's a citizen's responsibility to blithely follow whatever rule is set by the people in charge (if you don't like a law, get it changed, it does work) - on the other hand, always assuming bad faith on the authorities or the government is just thoughtless rebellion.

Edit: Intended for Maes, not you, Enjay =P Oh give it a rest already - The police are not ordinary law-abiding citizens, they are individuals chosen specifically to be above the law for the purposes of protecting society. We give the cops special rights because we acknowledge that their job is difficult, dangerous and more often than not totally thankless - usually because of punks like you. It's completely obvious to everyone that people with power will tend to abuse their power - I guess you'd only be satisfied in a truly Anarchistic society where nobody is above anyone else - then again, in an Anarchist society, how would you prevent people from creating their own laws? Like it or not, certain people would assume positions of power, even where no fixed hierarchies are said to exist. Human beings require government to function. Government takes many different forms, but they're all equally valuable. No matter what brand of politics you want to push, there will always be someone above you. You can't fight that - you also can't argue with the success of the police forces of the western world.

Isn't it obvious why that would happen though? If said firefighter started beating the shit out of the theoretical mouthy truther, I'd probably help kick his ass, too! Seriously, am I the only who finds it easy to avoid pissing off the cops? Don't start any, there won't be any.

Oh good god, I'm sick of people casting all this hatred towards the police. The police keep you safe. The police put the bad guys in jail. Sometimes things don't always work out perfectly, that's no reason to think that society can even function without them.

Funny thing actually, according to the FBI stats for the year 2006, of the homicides where additional data was able to be collected, only a scant 255~ murders were justifiable homicide by a gun-owning citizen. So, owning a gun doesn't necessarily protect you very well, contrary to the NRA's position. Note : I don't believe in banning firearms myself, but I do support tighter regulation (ie, who is allowed to have them. The current system here in Canada is a joke - they basically ask if you're crazy, if you say no, you're free to purchase whatever's currently legal).

I've got a better idea, just shoot the disrespectful bastard, nothing showy; just take a bit off of his kneecap. No courts, no bullshit, just a permanent limp and better respect for the people that died for his freedom.

No, he really thinks that the armies of the world should bare-knuckle box their way to victory. Fool.

Only player-characters respawn, you silly bugger.

He managed a pretty good kill streak considering he was playing on Nightmare Difficulty. The enemy AI were well armed, reinforcements were nearly unlimited and despite that, he actually survived - consider that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were playing on Easy mode and in Cooperative setting and they had to ragequit once the going got too tough.

Just by examining the posts here, you can tell who the young members are. I guarantee most of you will eventually reverse your position on this subject.

Suppose a person wants to kill themself. We can't see into the future; maybe this person can be helped - maybe someone can talk them out of suicide and then that person goes on to live a happy, productive life. Obviously it was appropriate to help this person, even if they didn't want it. Maybe their situation isn't fixable. Maybe suicide really would end their suffering. Is it right to assume that the latter is always true? Why? That's a pretty callous and immature attitude if you ask me. (nobody asked me) I've never known anyone that seriously contemplated suicide, but I've had friends with self-destructive habits, and I've helped them. They didn't want my help, but they're better off now. Why would anyone find it so wrong to at least try to help someone in trouble, no matter what? By the way, human life is precious. Goes with that whole 'no two people are the same' thing. Don't go all nihilist on me now.