Reloading

maybe the bfg should use another form of energy cells or whatever - then it would be possible that those enegy weapons could use their own type of ammo. reloding could be avoided by doing so. btw i dont like the idea of too much energy weapons. a bfg and the plasma rifle should the only ones of that weapon type.

for the conventional ammo reloading should be implemented; so the same ammo could be used by the (pistol, smg) and (rl and gl). the chaingun should use another ammo type.

a nice thing would be that empty clips are dropped like empty shells, etc.

uniQ said:

maybe the bfg should use another form of energy cells or whatever - then it would be possible that those enegy weapons could use their own type of ammo. reloding could be avoided by doing so. btw i dont like the idea of too much energy weapons. a bfg and the plasma rifle should the only ones of that weapon type.

Noooouughh, I don't want half a million different ammo types to make it harder to run out of ammo. Make as many weapons share ammo as possible - that way, there is at least a small chance that you can end up running out of ammo if you're being careless with your ammo.

I hate when I finally manage to spend all my bullets for example, and then it turns out that I still have full house in all other ammo types.

hmmm...but the point is: pistol, smg should have relaoding chaingun not. so how can you share bullets in this case? if you say pistol and smg uses the same ammo its ok because you reload them. but in case of the chaingun its impossible to use the same type because the chaingun has a chained bullet feeder.

all in all doom could come out with 6 types of ammo:
energy, bullets, chaingun bullets, shells, rocks/grens, fuel/gas.

maybe the bfg is of the kind "one shot weapon". would make sense.

uniQ said:

hmmm...but the point is: pistol, smg should have relaoding chaingun not. so how can you share bullets in this case? if you say pistol and smg uses the same ammo its ok because you reload them. but in case of the chaingun its impossible to use the same type because the chaingun has a chained bullet feeder.

That would also be ok with me, because at least two of the weapons share ammo. I imagine that there may be two types of clips to pick up: Bullet clips and machinegun magazines, but both types provide the same type of bullets (just like clips and boxes of bullets supplied you with the same ammo in the old Dooms). And maybe they'll do it so that the chaingun uses a higher calibre that dishes out more damage than the machinegun/pistol ammo.

exactly what i thought about.

now someone from id has to come in and take a look at our "ideas".

xian?!

I feel that reasonably acurate (a little fudging) magazine sizes would be ok. Example, there are alredy several pistols with 17, 18, or 19 round magazines so having one in the game with a 20 round magazine would be reasonably accurate. A centry and a half would be enough time for a further refinements in magazine springs.

Well here is my view on reloading in Doom 3:

Chainsaw: Electric with a power supply capable of several of delviering a couple of months of power without having to replace it. No reloading.

Pistol: 20 round magazine.

Pump shotgun: 8 round capacity. An 8 round tube is pretty common. With the abuility to top it off.

Double barreled shotgun: I would like the shells to auto eject when you break it open. I would also like it to be like Mad Max's double barrled shotgun really sawed off, it just looks meaner to me.

Assualt rifle: At one point I thought heard that it was going to be a 300 round magazine but im not sure. To my suprise its actually not unfesible http://www.hkpro.com/g11lmg.htm (but I would have prefered a better reloading system). If I am off base on this then a 50 round magazine like on the real life FN P-90 http://www.fnmfg.com/products/p90/p90.htm . Should use same ammo as pistol.

Gatling gun: It should be feed off an ammo backpack like in Predator. As for the issue of reloading issue there are two ways of handling it. First, if you run out your SOL untill you can find another ammo backpack. But since the backpack will likly already have another gatling attached to it so you would probaly be better off just dumping it when its empty. Second, have the ammo cases for the gatling be an interlocking ammo box. An ammo backpack would be 3 or 4 cases locked to gather onto a backpack frame. Each case would be about 500 rounds. When you start running low you slide off the empty cases and slide on new ones to reload. The ammo would be a diffrent type than pistol or assault rifle.

Rocket Launcher: There seeems to be a counsenes that it is going to be a repeater and I agree. We have the rocket ammo belt like Quake 2 approach. Another aproach could be a shoulder lauched rocket pod with over a dozen mini rockets. Another aproach could be a tube feed aproach like on the pump action shotgun. Each rocket would be a football sized and shaped warhead with a tiny engien. When fired the fins would deploy as the rocket flew through the air. I figure it could hold about 5 rockets this way. You would load a new rocket through the bottom front of the magazine tube.

Plama Rifle: I the 75 shot idea. It would also work well with balancing ammo with the BFG say 25 plasma shots = 1 BFG shot. I would like to see the ammo for cells look like a metalic cylinder with a radiation symbol and maybe some sort of electronic guage on the top or side. It would load in the plasma rifle like a magazine on the assault rifle.

BFG: 3 shots per cell? Have the BFG be opened up to load a cell into it and to take the old one out.

Reloading for the chaingun is kinda redundant imo, because in real life, belt-fed machineguns are typically reloaded by attaching more ammo belts onto the existing ammo belt - and we don't need the game to be so detailed that we should see the marine's hands fiddle around with the ammo belt, so I think they should leave the chaingun without reloading.

The case with the rocket launcher is a little different though as a rocket launcher with a long belt isn't feasable because it will be too awkward (a rocket launcher is different from a machinegun). Short, five rocket belts are what I regard as feasable, but that would require that a new belt should be inserted whenever the first belt has been fired dry.
One reason for having reloading for the RL is to reduce the power and overall efficiency of the weapon so that it does not become too effective a weapon.
And I think the rockets should be rather small as large rockets that causes a small explosion looks daft imo. Make the rockets small - that way they'll make more sense.

I've been asking this question to myself a couple of times and I wonder: How the hell can our Doomguy carry all these weapons? I mean, we got a RL here, and a heavy chaingun there, it sounds pretty silly. Although, I do not want Doom3 to be as realistic as possible, because we need the to feel that we're also playing a game on our computers. Toss alittle reality in it, and leave the rest to us?

MRB_Doom said:

I've been asking this question to myself a couple of times and I wonder: How the hell can our Doomguy carry all these weapons? I mean, we got a RL here, and a heavy chaingun there, it sounds pretty silly. Although, I do not want Doom3 to be as realistic as possible, because we need the to feel that we're also playing a game on our computers. Toss alittle reality in it, and leave the rest to us?

Don't be so damn nitpicky about such a small, insignificant thing -You're not supposed to think about the doomguy carrying a shitload of weapons.
Just play the damn game and be happy that the game hasn't some piss-annoying I-can-only-carry-three-weapons-at-once-so-I-gotta-select-my-weapns-carefully crap incorporated into it.

The game is supposed to be FUN, not so realistic that it ruins the experience.

The rockets should be about the size of an average wine bottle though a bit longer.

Little Faith said:

The rockets should be about the size of an average wine bottle though a bit longer.

Some modern rockets are a lot smaller than that.
Ideal Doom 3 rocket size imho: Something that appears to be 12 centimetres long and two cm wide.

dsm said:

Don't be so damn nitpicky about such a small, insignificant thing -You're not supposed to think about the doomguy carrying a shitload of weapons.
Just play the damn game and be happy that the game hasn't some piss-annoying I-can-only-carry-three-weapons-at-once-so-I-gotta-select-my-weapns-carefully crap incorporated into it.

The game is supposed to be FUN, not so realistic that it ruins the experience.

OK, you don't have to be so damn cranky about it. I understood the concept of having FUN along time ago, so you don't need to repeat it to me. I can think of whatever I choose to think of, including the weapons issue. I guess that question had to be asked so I could get rid of it.

I don't want any extreme realism in a game, that would kill the point of playing it (I am not as disinformed as you might have tought). I simply asked about something, refering to the point of realism in the game, that's it.

dsm said:

Reloading for the chaingun is kinda redundant imo, because in real life, belt-fed machineguns are typically reloaded by attaching more ammo belts onto the existing ammo belt - and we don't need the game to be so detailed that we should see the marine's hands fiddle around with the ammo belt, so I think they should leave the chaingun without reloading.

The case with the rocket launcher is a little different though as a rocket launcher with a long belt isn't feasable because it will be too awkward (a rocket launcher is different from a machinegun). Short, five rocket belts are what I regard as feasable, but that would require that a new belt should be inserted whenever the first belt has been fired dry.
One reason for having reloading for the RL is to reduce the power and overall efficiency of the weapon so that it does not become too effective a weapon.
And I think the rockets should be rather small as large rockets that causes a small explosion looks daft imo. Make the rockets small - that way they'll make more sense.

Gatlings are actually conveyor feed and not belt feed. The game America's Army: Operations handles belt feed machine guns pretty well and realisticly. Pull out empty ammo box put in fresh one. Flip up top, thred belt, close top, pull back on charging handle and your ready to go. But dumping the galing when it runs dry is fine with me too.

MRB_Doom said:

OK, you don't have to be so damn cranky about it. I understood the concept of having FUN along time ago, so you don't need to repeat it to me. I can think of whatever I choose to think of, including the weapons issue. I guess that question had to be asked so I could get rid of it.

I don't want any extreme realism in a game, that would kill the point of playing it (I am not as disinformed as you might have tought). I simply asked about something, refering to the point of realism in the game, that's it.

The reason why I acted crankily is that this question has been asked before, and imo it is kinda dumb to ask that question because it's obvious that nobody can carry that many weapons at once in real life.

Xzyl: Well, this game is kinda set in the future - that means that things *could* be a bit different.

I doubt even Zaphod Beeblebrox can carry that many weapons at once, heheh.

that "how the hell can one man carry all those items at once" question always brought me to a smile...ever since doom1

and the answer is: all items have little nifty antigrav devices attached to. just like those killer sharks with head mounted laser devices....wohohohohohoho!

dsm said:

The reason why I acted crankily is that this question has been asked before, and imo it is kinda dumb to ask that question because it's obvious that nobody can carry that many weapons at once in real life.

I can't have all the info on all questions that have been asked on these forums, so don't make me the fool in this case. I was trying to get some response to the question, obviously it didn't work that well. The answer to that question could've been different, even if it's answer was very obvious. The possibility is always there, so don't shut it out.

@MRB_Doom: i gave u one answer. it's the only possible way to carry a 400 kg backback.

uniQ said:

exactly what i thought about.

now someone from id has to come in and take a look at our "ideas".

xian?!

Just curious, but even if they do look at this stuff, what stage of the game are they on? The time between now and the relative release time isn't that much really. I'd think by now they'd be past the part of the engine that dictates how things work, and be on to stuff like building the levels, working on cutscene and npc (including monsters) scripts. I don't really know how long game development like this takes, but I think they probably have the reloading thing done already. I suppose it's never too late to change things though.

uniQ said:

i gave u one answer. it's the only possible way to carry a 400 kg backback.

This is when sarcasm hits rock bottom.

My depiction of plasma reloading, and ammo. I'm not sure about the BFG. -

Plasma Rifles use mutated-uranium pellets shaped like bullets, but double in size and a bit more rounded in the front. The pellet is punched through in the barrel, releasing a forced energy shot, and the empty shell ejected like any other weapon. IMO, the plasma rifle could carry a 15 round clip, mostly because of their size, but because of their power.

The BFG could just be a big badass form of the plasma rifle, maybe using more than one pellet at a time. 'Mnot sure tho.

BTW this is only MY view of this, doubtfully anyone elses. I'm not saying that this IS going how to be, just how I imagine it.

Change that 15 round clip to 30, just longer.

MRB_Doom said:

I can't have all the info on all questions that have been asked on these forums, so don't make me the fool in this case. I was trying to get some response to the question, obviously it didn't work that well. The answer to that question could've been different, even if it's answer was very obvious. The possibility is always there, so don't shut it out.

Of course you can't, but you can see that the question is really stupid and pointless, because nobody can give a sensible answer to it (other than firing up lame jokes).
Did I made myself clear? If not, then please file a complaint to my secretary in three copies. :-P

dsm said:

Of course you can't, but you can see that the question is really stupid and pointless, because nobody can give a sensible answer to it (other than firing up lame jokes).
Did I made myself clear? If not, then please file a complaint to my secretary in three copies. :-P

It looks like those who fired up lame jokes, rather than giving me a sensible answer to the question, are the ones that are being stupid and pointless. If you think that a question is stupid or pointless, don't answer at all, because it will only bring up a useless discussion like the one we're having right now. Please, see the logic in this.

MRB_Doom said:

It looks like those who fired up lame jokes, rather than giving me a sensible answer to the question, are the ones that are being stupid and pointless. If you think that a question is stupid or pointless, don't answer at all, because it will only bring up a useless discussion like the one we're having right now. Please, see the logic in this.

Dude, it's my job to give people a hint that their questions are dumb to give them an idea of what questions are likely to be deleted. Now, I've been nice so far and let your question live, but frankly, I'm wondering if it wouldn't have been better if I had just killed it.
Now would you please stop continuing the damn discussion before I lose my head (something that I'm sure you wouldn't want because bad things happen when a Mod loses his head)?

dsm said:

Dude, it's my job to give people a hint that their questions are dumb to give them an idea of what questions are likely to be deleted. Now, I've been nice so far and let your question live, but frankly, I'm wondering if it wouldn't have been better if I had just killed it.
Now would you please stop continuing the damn discussion before I lose my head (something that I'm sure you wouldn't want because bad things happen when a Mod loses his head)?

I don't mind if you delete my question, that's find with me. Your moderator capabilities don't worry me, if that's the idea. I have been trying to end this discussion, but it seems that you have the need to reply, even if you don't have to. Why lose your head, if you can smile about the whole thing?

BFG shots are actually semi-chocolate-glazed gold fish tear ducts covered in florescent wasabi. So one should really be able to carry about 50 of those.

x)

If you want to read more about these guns check out:

http://www.montysminiguns.com/RealityPage.htm

and

http://users.bigpond.net.au/minigun/main.htm

btw...
"Chain Gun" A Chain Gun Is NOT a Minigun or Gatling Gun for that matter - Unlike what some "Video Games" would lead you to believe. A Chain Gun is normally a 20mm or larger weapon that uses a chain system & motor to load & cycle the gun. Here are some examples of a Actual "Chain Gun" "Chain Gun 2" The next time you see a "Chain Gun" with spinning barrels remember the only place you could be is in "Fantasy Land".

I thank you for sharing these really hysterical jokes, now I got my laugh.

I voted to keep it simple. Unrealistic and ultraviolent. I love Doom...