Yes, another Doom 3 vs UT2K3 thread

Alright, I'm just wondering as to a few things.

1) Does UT2K3 have better graphics. What I mean by that is more detailed environments then Doom 3 as well as models.

2) Do we know if Doom 3 has a physics engine yet? I heard mention that there would be one.

3) Does UT2K3 have the shadowing, bumpmapping and lighting effects that Doom 3 has?

That's all thanks.

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1) UT2k3 does not have better Graphics. In Doom3 the high poly models are there, don´t get confused by the fact that they are projected on lower poly models via bumpmapping tricks. But they are there, and they are more detailed than UT2k3 stuff.
UT2k3 just looks like Quake3 with even more details, plus some extras like coronas and projector lights. Doom3 is one step further.

2) You can see effects of a physic engine in the E3 demo movie (shooting boxes, zombie falling down the stairs etc.). Don´t know about the current status though.

3) No.

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2) Do we know if Doom 3 has a physics engine yet? I heard mention that there would be one.

Uh even Doom has a physics engine heh.

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In the leaked alpha it is already possible to enable physics for the models via some consolecommands. If you'd shoot someone in the infamous bathroomscene, the zombie would get thrown into the wall and fall down realistically. This option is not standard however, but probably they've implemented it by now.

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Disorder said:

In the leaked alpha it is already possible to enable physics for the models via some consolecommands. If you'd shoot someone in the infamous bathroomscene, the zombie would get thrown into the wall and fall down realistically. This option is not standard however, but probably they've implemented it by now.


You mean that if you shoot a zombie with the shotgun close range, he flies up against the wall then to the floor, complete with sounds when he hits the wall? I didn't know that!

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Alientank said:

You mean that if you shoot a zombie with the shotgun close range, he flies up against the wall then to the floor, complete with sounds when he hits the wall? I didn't know that!


uhmm. Try to walk up close on somebody and shoot him. He will not fly to the wall.

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Shaviro said:

uhmm. Try to walk up close on somebody and shoot him. He will not fly to the wall.


So you can adjust the physics so that even if shooting someone with a pistol they'll get thrown back?

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Shaviro said:

uhmm. Try to walk up close on somebody and shoot him. He will not fly to the wall.

I've seen video's of the leaked alpha made by some guy who enabled the physics for the zombies with consolecommands. It hasn't been tweaked yet, I think. Anyway, it seems possible, but I don't know how.

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1) Does UT2K3 have better graphics. What I mean by that is more detailed environments then Doom 3 as well as models.

I think you're kind of asking the wrong question here. Unreal 2 uses the same graphics engine as UT2K3 but as a single-player game compares more to Doom III than UT2K3 does. In raw polycount Unreal 2 is certainly more detailed than Doom III, and in my opinion the colourful super-detailed graphics of Unreal 2 look cooler than the gritty, photo-realistic visuals of Doom III. But that's just a matter of personal preference.

So the answer to your question is a mighty "yes and no".

2) Do we know if Doom 3 has a physics engine yet? I heard mention that there would be one.

Any game with gravity and clipping against the world has a physics engine to some degree. I suppose you mean the ragdoll physics that allow monsters and objects to bounce and twist realistically. The answer is yes. Though this wasn't fully implemented in the alpha yet; the only monsters with ragdoll physics were specifically set up in a few key places, and not all monsters or objects exhibit ragdoll behavior. I'm sure the physics system will be extended to the entire game eventually.

3) Does UT2K3 have the shadowing, bumpmapping and lighting effects that Doom 3 has?

No. Doom III is going for the photo-realistic approach, with complicated rendering that takes lots of passes to create realistic lighting on every pixel. UT2K3's lighting works well, but it's not realistic by any means and doesn't include stencil shadows or per-pixel lighting calculations. This is also the reason why Doom III runs so much slower than UT2K3.

Disorder said:

uhmm. Try to walk up close on somebody and shoot him. He will not fly to the wall.


I've seen video's of the leaked alpha made by some guy who enabled the physics for the zombies with consolecommands. It hasn't been tweaked yet, I think. Anyway, it seems possible, but I don't know how.

I think Shaviro's referring to real life, where people and other objects aren't thrown around violenty when hit by bullets or shotgun blasts. If I point a 12 gauge shotgun at your chest and fire it from a distance of six feet (oh, the most heavenly of fantasies...), you will be knocked back a bit but certainly not enough to throw you against a wall with any kind of real force.

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Shaviro said:

I'm talking about real-life dammit.

I hope for your own fucking sake that you haven't tried shooting someone up close in real life, let alone shooting ANYONE in real life.

/me raises the receiver of his phone and prepares to call the police :-P

I'm curious as to where you know this stuff shav. At any rate, who cares if a point blank shotgun blast hurls people backwards in real life or not? It looks cool in a game or in a movie so implementing it would be great.

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I'm curious as to where you know this stuff shav.

It takes grade seven physics to figure out that a shotgun shot won't hurl someone backwards.

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Fredrik said:

It takes grade seven physics to figure out that a shotgun shot won't hurl someone backwards.


Yes! You'd need much larger projectiles (and heavier).

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Shaviro said:

Yes! You'd need much larger projectiles.

Earth to Shaviro, Earth to Shaviro (:-P), Doom 3 takes place in the future! You won't have any idea whether a shotgun works exactly like a modern shotgun or if its a lot more advanced in its firing system so that it's much more powerful.

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dsm said:

Earth to Shaviro, Earth to Shaviro (:-P), Doom 3 takes place in the future! You won't have any idea whether a shotgun works exactly like a modern shotgun or if its a lot more advanced in its firing system so that it's much more powerful.


I've played it. It isn't more powerful. It's your standard shotgun. Even if it were more powerful, it still wouldn't make you fly, the bullets would simply fly through you.

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If the shotgun was that powerful, the result would be that the player would fly backwards when he fired it, too.

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bullets and pellets simply do not have the mass to transfer velocity to their target like that, jesus how is anyone arguing this?

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Use3D said:

bullets and pellets simply do not have the mass to transfer velocity to their target like that, jesus how is anyone arguing this?


Action movies...

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Heh.

Simple conservation of momentum tells us that if a 20-gram bullet, which is quite large, is fired at 420 m/s, which is quite fast, into an 80-kg man and transfers all its momentum, which never happens, then the man should be knocked back at about 0.1 m/s, which is certainly a bit of a jolt but not anything near the amount of imparted momentum needed to fly across a room.

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I don't know much in this area, but wouldn't the finer pellets you'd get from like a #14 shot go in, but no penatrate, therefore lifting the person and throwing him a good distance? Slugs probably wouldn't do that, but 'most' buckshots might carry you 3-8 ft I guess.

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Shaviro said:

I've played it. It isn't more powerful. It's your standard shotgun. Even if it were more powerful, it still wouldn't make you fly, the bullets would simply fly through you.

Oh wow! You've played it! I know you have, but it's a game - you can't really measure it from the game can you?
The pistol could be as powerful as a Magnum 44 for all we know - it just doesn't seem that way because the monsters are seemingly so powerful that they can take a lot of damage. Oh yeah, and if the Doom 3 shotgun is as powerful as the old one then it's also a lot more powerful than your "standard" shotgun in real life, because real life shotguns ain't that powerful.

bullets and pellets simply do not have the mass to transfer velocity to their target like that, jesus how is anyone arguing this?

Maybe not, but the air pressure that those things generate when they fly at such high speeds is breathtaking and also have an effect.

Regardless of all the realism, I still want to see weaker monsters hurled back when I pump a buckshot into them, because
1. it was like that with the imps in the old game and it's one of the many reasons I find it cooler to shoot enemies in Doom than any other game.
2. It's just cooler and a game is meant to be cool, not realistic.

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Maybe not, but the air pressure that those things generate when they fly at such high speeds is breathtaking and also have an effect.

No.

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Fredrik said:

No.

Yes dammit! They taught me that in the army - it may not cause someone to be thrown back, but the air pressure alone can do damage to your body, not just the bullet.
Oh and btw:

If the shotgun was that powerful, the result would be that the player would fly backwards when he fired it, too.

Not if the weapon had some sort of advanced recoil adapter.

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Are we talking about doom3 or the new edition of campastrike?

Damn! I want action-movie phyiscs because those suit better then real life ones. If we start to get nitpicky we all should vote for that mr doomguy can only carry one handgun, one rifle or smg and some ammo at the smae time. d'oh!

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dsm said:

Not if the weapon had some sort of advanced recoil adapter.

A 'recoil adapter', whatever that may be, can't change the laws of physics.

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Yes dammit! They taught me that in the army - it may not cause someone to be thrown back, but the air pressure alone can do damage to your body, not just the bullet.

Entirely different issue. The air pressure causes damage to the body, but it does NOT accelerate it.

Not if the weapon had some sort of advanced recoil adapter.

What FlatHead said.

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err, we're on Mars in this game, not Earth... maybe there's less gravity therefore the zombie would fly backwards after getting blasted.

(of-course that would depend on the mission i guess)

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Lord FlatHead said:

A 'recoil adapter', whatever that may be, can't change the laws of physics.

It can prevent you from being thrown backwards by considerably reducing the kickback.

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vahagn said:

err, we're on Mars in this game, not Earth... maybe there's less gravity therefore the zombie would fly backwards after getting blasted.


No.

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