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wasted

Zombification...

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1. Hmm, i guess there should be part in game where you can see the process...

2. Different Z. types?

Full Brain washing. Thats for usual zobmies, non militant, workers, engeneers and cleaning boys.

Semi Brain washing. Scientists, who are still mumling formulas and other scientific crap...

Just-to-save combat experience washing. That for marines and science facility security personnel. These might even say: What the f'ck, i missed you! or I smell fear! or whatever...

PS: 3. Should it be some special device for Z.?

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Zombies: non-miltary dudes. Civies that were killed and then awakened by evil powers.
Possessed soldiers: Marines and various other security guards that were possesssed by Lost Souls.

Just a guess. For all I know, even the civies could be possessed by Lost Souls (although I don't hope that would be the case - I prefer my idea).

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dsm said:

Zombies: non-miltary dudes. Civies that were killed and then awakened by evil powers.
Possessed soldiers: Marines and various other security guards that were possesssed by Lost Souls.

Just a guess. For all I know, even the civies could be possessed by Lost Souls (although I don't hope that would be the case - I prefer my idea).


Is that mean Z.=Possession?

I thought its more to biological and psychotic influence then the spiritual one... hmm, djust a random thought...

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Please correct me if I misunderstand something, because I'm a bit confused by your posts.

We saw in the E3 demo last year that the guards got possessed by lost souls flying out of the gateway (and I've seen the former humans in the classic Dooms referred to as "possessed soldiers" a lot). Since they can handle weapons as effectively and accurately as a normal human (the scene with the chaingun commando) - an undead wouldn't be able to aim worth crap, because of rotting tissue making its movements all jerky - it'd be prudent to assume that they *could* be possessed, so that they still function like humans, but with a much meaner attitude (and with some mutating, so that they become even more dangerous).

I haven't seen any civies possessed, but I find it notable that the undead zombies all have some sort of wounds to indicate that they have already been killed once, while the possessed commandos don't have anything of that sort. That suggests that they were killed first, THEN zombiefied.

But this is all just guesswork and I might as well be totally off.

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All the the human type enemies in Doom3 are classed as Zombies. From the maintenance guys in the orange tops to the Chaingun commandos... all zombies apparently.

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Ok. So we have to divide the possession and z. then.

Classic definition of zombe is: the dead body which was summoned to life ones again to serve to the summoner. Z. then is the process of ressurection... Hmm, Jesus zombified Lazarius? Just a passing by thought...

The possession means that the body is controlled by some nonhuman forces. Unfortunatelly i havent seen that very trailer :(. So i didnt knew nothing about LS possessing the soldiers.

But with that i agreed with AirRaid to consider every human inhabitant in Doom zombies...

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Damn these posts are confusing to me.........maybe im just slow, but how about there just possesed by lost souls and there just like the old doom zombies.

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dsm, I think you're right. As you've said, we've seen civilian zombies, all with some type of wound on them, enough to be fatal, and then re-awakened by the evil forces floating around the base.

As evidence, some of us remember from the leaked vid the man that the pinky demon drags into the bathroom and proceeds to eat. He leaves to go take a rest or something, and a few moments later, the man wakes up as a zombie. In other words, he was killed, and then re-awakened, as dsm said. We've never seen the Marines or security personnel wounded in any way, and the only thing we've seen to explain this is the lost souls possessing them directly from their living state at the beginning of the video.

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AirRaid said:

All the the human type enemies in Doom3 are classed as Zombies. From the maintenance guys in the orange tops to the Chaingun commandos... all zombies apparently.

Well of course, but I just distinguish between 'possessed' and '(undead) zombie' to make it easier for others to see what I mean.

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Depending on what stories you are reading, there are different ways to make zombies

1:Voodoo, they give someone some powder which makes them seem like theyre dead (using lots of magic and shit, but its really just the poison from some type of puffer fish), they then use some other chemical on the 'dead' body to make them very open to the powers of suggestion, so they can be used as slaves

2:Dawn of the dead,ect-These types of zombies seem to just have some kind of virus or something in thier blood which means that thier brain stays active and they meander around trying to eat people, if youre bitten by one or swallow some of thier blood you eventually become one, the only way to destroy them is to destroy the brain or decapitate them (as seen in george a romero's "of the dead" movies)

3:Doom zombies-Dead or alive people which have been taken over by an evil spirit, as can be seen in the doom 3 previews, and according to the manuals ect its also what happened in the first doom games, because they are possessed by a satanic influence all they want to do is kill and destroy as much as possible, but are still pretty dumb and just wander about..but they remember some of thier skills from life (IE zombified soldiers know how to use guns, zombified engineers know how to use tools, ie chainsaws..)

4:Other, ie the type seen in that wierd movie 'brain dead', where even if they are mushed up in a blender theyre still alive and the gunk slides around chasing people XD

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deathbringer said:

Depending on what stories you are reading, there are different ways to make zombies

1:Voodoo, they give someone some powder which makes them seem like theyre dead (using lots of magic and shit, but its really just the poison from some type of puffer fish), they then use some other chemical on the 'dead' body to make them very open to the powers of suggestion, so they can be used as slaves


Well, speaking of Voodoo: it is actually just an initiation to a tribe practice. It is near to all those mystical practicles of the early religions. The z. in that case is not a process of ressurection or awakening, its just a transformation of concsiosness. You are become poisoned becouse the tribe chieftains and shamans want to give the experience of non-being-in-body...

deathbringer said:

2:Dawn of the dead,ect-These types of zombies seem to just have some kind of virus or something in thier blood which means that thier brain stays active and they meander around trying to eat people, if youre bitten by one or swallow some of thier blood you eventually become one, the only way to destroy them is to destroy the brain or decapitate them (as seen in george a romero's "of the dead" movies)


I did thought the same about Doom zombies, but not with virus aspect but with psychological and mutation influence. Humans in Doom seemed to me not being possessed but like-re-programmed and physicaly twisted during some experiments. It is not like the Matrix reprogramming but some weird Hellish abusement, in many ways similar to Dr. Weir from Event Horizon.
Thats why i like the movie - it reminds me Doom...

deathbringer said:

3:Doom zombies-Dead or alive people which have been taken over by an evil spirit, as can be seen in the doom 3 previews, and according to the manuals ect its also what happened in the first doom games, because they are possessed by a satanic influence all they want to do is kill and destroy as much as possible, but are still pretty dumb and just wander about..but they remember some of thier skills from life (IE zombified soldiers know how to use guns, zombified engineers know how to use tools, ie chainsaws..)


The question appeared here: if its the irresistble spiritual force why it wont take your (dsm's) soul so easely? Why Satan (if he exists in Doom) did not take the life of another human?

deathbringer said:

4:Other, ie the type seen in that wierd movie 'brain dead', where even if they are mushed up in a blender theyre still alive and the gunk slides around chasing people XD


Well it might be self regenerating organisms. I think that instead of respawning on the same place hellish creatures will have that ability in Doom 3 - youve killed an imp and after some time he is back to life fully regenerated!!! Run Forrest, run!!!

But the regeneration ability should be off on zobmies, couse they belong to this world... or it might be so many shit in their cells!!!

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Fuck all that, we're talking about D3 zombies. It's possession either way really, when you boil it down. Just for some reason (video game logic I suppose), the only live ones they possess are the soldiers and they wait until the civvies are dead before they take them over.

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I believe that there are going to be Zombies (plain and stupid, no guns) and possesed people (evil spirits controling them, which means inteligent use of guns and enviroment)

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The_Aeromaster said:

Fuck all that, we're talking about D3 zombies. It's possession either way really, when you boil it down. Just for some reason (video game logic I suppose), the only live ones they possess are the soldiers and they wait until the civvies are dead before they take them over.

Oh come on, it's actually pretty logical.
They possess the soldiers so that they can still handle a gun and fight like human soldiers, BUT they have the weakness that they actually die when downed.

The civies aren't worth shit 'alive' because they're weak, don't wear armour and can't shoot (they don't carry guns either), so what do the demons do? They kill them and raise their bodies.
As living dead, they can't feel any real pain and they can't be killed by just ruining their organs, because it's a different force that keeps them 'up and about'. As such, they are tougher to actually kill (and they don't always stay dead).
Plus, as undead, their strenght is enhanced so that they can inflict more damage when punching you than a living civie would.

See where it goes?

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dsm said:

Oh come on, it's actually pretty logical.
They possess the soldiers so that they can still handle a gun and fight like human soldiers, BUT they have the weakness that they actually die when downed.

The civies aren't worth shit 'alive' because they're weak, don't wear armour and can't shoot (they don't carry guns either), so what do the demons do? They kill them and raise their bodies.
As living dead, they can't feel any real pain and they can't be killed by just ruining their organs, because it's a different force that keeps them 'up and about'. As such, they are tougher to actually kill (and they don't always stay dead).
Plus, as undead, their strenght is enhanced so that they can inflict more damage when punching you than a living civie would.

See where it goes?


I agreed it is very logical and explains a lot. But the quest is the same here: why those very (irresistble) spiritual evil force wont take your (doom space marine's) soul easely?

It looks like the appearence of Neo in Matrix - dsm can resist that evil influence couse he 1. chosen; 2. has unique abilities; 3. he came too late on Phobos so the force dessapeared and vanished...

The second quest: so called possessed soldiers, commando not real authentic humans - their eyes, some bodyparts were changed. Thus 'possession' means not only spiritual thing...

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wasted said:

I agreed it is very logical and explains a lot. But the quest is the same here: why those very (irresistble) spiritual evil force wont take your (doom space marine's) soul easely?

It looks like the appearence of Neo in Matrix - dsm can resist that evil influence couse he 1. chosen; 2. has unique abilities; 3. he came too late on Phobos so the force dessapeared and vanished...

Oh that's what troubles you? Let's see what I can cook up. Hmmmm.

The possessed soldiers are possessed by lost souls. Anyone who manages to hide from these mean spirits (including doomguy) avoid being possessed. The Doomguy ain't around when all Hell breaks loose, and naturally, that means that all the lost souls have possessed something or have returned to Hell, as they cannot retain their form for long in the mortal world (unless they've possessed something).

Undead zombies cannot be zombiefied unless they're dead once. If the player gets killed, he'd be a potential target for demonic zombiefication.

Did that help? Feel free to point out other strange things, and I'd be glad to be of service.

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wasted said:

The second quest: so called possessed soldiers, commando not real authentic humans - their eyes, some bodyparts were changed. Thus 'possession' means not only spiritual thing...


...so the LS can carry any mutation cells with them?

Or possessed soldiers after possession have to take short fun trip to Hell, where they enhance their bodies with the evil stuff?

Besides you are able to kill LS, arent you? So its a matter_made_thing. So 'possession' becomes the virus_like desease or some kind of that to me...

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wasted said:

Besides you are able to kill LS, arent you? So its a matter_made_thing. So 'possession' becomes the virus_like desease or some kind of that to me...

I doubt you can kill the ghost lost soul skulls that possess humans, but those cyber-head-rocket-thingies can definitely be killed.

Hmm, maybe those rocket-head-thingies are the embodiment of lost souls that didn't manage to possess a human.

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Bahh, i've become a bit confused myself with all those speculations...

I must admit that your theory of Possession explains a lot and has its inner logic... But yet i cant agree with that.

Well DooM is our God and He will show his plan soon :)...

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DSM's way of explaining it was kinda what i was trying to say XD, and i think that the guy in event horizon was a "type 3", IE posessed by an evil force, he just retained his intelligence because..event horizon wasnt made by ID software XD. As for why the main character hasnt been possessed by the evil spirits when other people have..well, i guess he just got lucky, heh

Oh and of course there is type 5 zombies-Ie those which are under the control of a parasitical organism, like the headcrabs in half-life, or the spiders in a comic i made up ages ago called "The gun" XD (The spiders even made the victim grow long claws, valve ripped me off!). Oh and this also sort-of happens for real, theres some little worm thing that can take over a snail's mind and make it sit around out in the open so a bird eats it

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wasted said:

I must admit that your theory of Possession explains a lot and has its inner logic... But yet i cant agree with that.

So you think that all humanoid enemies are zombies regardless of their ability to A) speak, B) handle weapons, C) walk like a human being vs. shambling along like classic B movie zombs.

Lemme see, there is a very clear difference between the commandos and the undead zombs.
Firstly, the commandos can handle guns, big guns. The zombs can't.
Secondly, the commandos move considerably faster than the zombies - that is not some weird coincidence.
Thirdly, the commandos don't seem to snarl and moan the same like the zombies, plus, the commandos can talk perfectly understandably while the zombies can only moan a few simple words, like "brain".
Then there's the clear visual difference: zombies covered with fatal wounds while the commandos have none such marks.

Finally, the commandos appear to be "mutateable" which none of the zombies seem to be.

All these things make it clear as the day to me that these two enemy types are definitely not the same or under the same influence.

P.S. Whenever I referred to "zombies" in this post, I meant those melee civie zombies.

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dsm said:

Lemme see, there is a very clear difference between the commandos and the undead zombs.
Firstly, the commandos can handle guns, big guns. The zombs can't.
Secondly, the commandos move considerably faster than the zombies - that is not some weird coincidence.
Thirdly, the commandos don't seem to snarl and moan the same like the zombies, plus, the commandos can talk perfectly understandably while the zombies can only moan a few simple words, like "brain".
Then there's the clear visual difference: zombies covered with fatal wounds while the commandos have none such marks.

The commandos have guns, the "zombies" are maintenance workers and stuff that don't have any guns. Therefore, the commandos use guns and the "zombies" don't.

Also, the commandos are more fit than the lazy, overweight maintenance workers, and thus they move faster.

For speech: again, the commandos are intelligent whereas the maintenance workers are stupid lamers that were sent to do the dirtiest work that could be found for them. They're simply too stupid to begin with to talk.

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Fredrik said:

The commandos have guns, the "zombies" are maintenance workers and stuff that don't have any guns. Therefore, the commandos use guns and the "zombies" don't.

Also, the commandos are more fit than the lazy, overweight maintenance workers, and thus they move faster.

For speech: again, the commandos are intelligent whereas the maintenance workers are stupid lamers that were sent to do the dirtiest work that could be found for them. They're simply too stupid to begin with to talk.

That's gotta be the lamest arguments in this thread. It's almost under my dignity to counter-argue it, but I'll do it anyway.

The maintenance workers could easily pick up a gun and use it if they were the same 'type' as the commandos - they might shoot worth crap and even shoot themselves in the foot (since they're untrained civies), but it'd be better than plain melee attacks.

As for fitness, how would you explain that the zombies move like drunkards with their arms stretched out in front of them? And even lazy workers can run if they have to. Laziness does not mean that you can't run at all.

Stupidity is no limitation for speech. I mean, DooMBoy posts clearly understandable posts with complex word structures. And ever so often, you come across stupid people that talk out of their asses all the time. Especially stupidity would make them shout all kinds of insults at you. If you ask me, the commandos are actually pretty stupid for shouting all their crap at you.

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The maintenance workers could easily pick up a gun and use it if they were the same 'type' as the commandos - they might shoot worth crap and even shoot themselves in the foot (since they're untrained civies), but it'd be better than plain melee attacks.

They "could" pick up a gun if there were any guns to pick up. Unfortunately, the commandos have already picked up all the existing guns. Anthropic principle, you know.

As for fitness, how would you explain that the zombies move like drunkards with their arms stretched out in front of them? And even lazy workers can run if they have to. Laziness does not mean that you can't run at all.

They're not fit. They're probably drunk or high on something too. In the alpha, there are "coke" cans and even boxes of "poop". Not to mention canisters of rocket fuel, heheh.

Stupidity is no limitation for speech. I mean, DooMBoy posts clearly understandable posts with complex word structures. And ever so often, you come across stupid people that talk out of their asses all the time. Especially stupidity would make them shout all kinds of insults at you. If you ask me, the commandos are actually pretty stupid for shouting all their crap at you.

Maybe the "zombies" are simply the restrained, silent kinds of guys? Hey, better yet: maybe they had a tough day? Remember that Carmack said that you could tell if a character was having a bad hair day. That's what they're showing with these "zombies". I bet you never thought of that.

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Fredrick, I hope you're not actually serious.

I agree with DSM.

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The_Aeromaster said:

"Yes, yes! Jesus H. tap-dancing Christ! I have seen the light!"


Jesus is possessed with Holy Spirit and have the power to zobify any man - he says: And will give you the eternal life. Eternal life to our rotten corpses to serve his planes... ?

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Grimm said:

Fredrick, I hope you're not actually serious.

I agree with DSM.


I don't think Fredrik was ever serious at any point in his life!

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