Seeing distant battles

Back to the oriinal thread, Distant battles????? They must be really stupid demons, member youre alone! The only way to get them to fight each other is to get cornered and have them shoot each other trying to shoot you. (at least thats what worked in the original doom).

What I would like to see in the distance though, a level before a boss level, is you loking out the window and seeing a massive cyberdeamon bursting out a hangar destroying it completely. and comming torward the building youre in.

AndrewB said:

But the point is, as long as they stick with the concept of monsters spawning and alien invasions and whatnot, (and if they don't then it's really not Doom,)

No, if they DO have the concept of alien invasions then it's not Doom. The invaders are the forces of hell itself, not some other world or dimension or whatever.

Yes, people tend to want realism, before a game is actually released. After that, it's popularity and acclaim is usually determined by fun factor and addictiveness. There are many games that are hyped for their "realism" features before release, and then flop as gamers realize it's not really what they wanted. Example, Unreal 2.

Just because you personally don't happen to like a game (and I'm not particularly fond of it either) doesn't make it a flop. Unreal 2 might not have sold quite as well as Unreal or UT did, but that doesn't make it a flop either.

If a game that isn't accalimed and doesn't sell well isn't a flop, then flop has no meaning.

It did sell well, spending a couple of months in the top 10 IIRC. Just not as good as it should/could have. A flop would have been if it didn't even get into the top 20.

Well, I'd say that Unreal 2 is to games what Armageddon was to movies. A pretty huge money-making hit, but still trashed and criticised left and right.

Too bad there isn't a solid rating system for games that gives us a general idea of overall quality.

That sounds cool. But, I dont want to see any other liveing people.
Seeing a B.O.H kill some imps would be cool.



I go by Pc gamer's rateing. If the game got a 75% or better ill buy it. Only First person shooters tho. Thats all I ever play.

AndrewB said:

If a game that isn't accalimed and doesn't sell well isn't a flop, then flop has no meaning.

I would call a game a flop when the production costs are higher then the profit made by sales. I don't know if this is the case for Unreal 2. The game was in production for over 3 years, so the costs are probably pretty high.

AndrewB said:

But who wants Doom 3 to be a Half-Life clone? Those who ask for scientists, linear gameplay, and scripted sequences.

You're being far too narrowminded my poor friend.
Just because you incorporate realism doesn't automatically make it a Half Life clone.
Half Life's emphasis seemed to be more on puzzle solving with the occasional monster or group of Marines. Doom 3 seems a lot more action oriented (despite iD trying to make it a horror game) than Half Life and it doesn't seem to have all those annoying puzzles.

And from what I've read, there'll still be a certain level of choices for the player to make, whereas in HL, every plot development was forced.
I'm not denying that Doom 3 will be very Half-life'ish, but I'm denying that it's a complete clone, because it seems to have enough Quake feel over it to still be different from Half Life.

And just because you think adding realism is silly, it doesn't mean that it IS silly. I've always envisioned the ultimate update of Doom as a more realistic game - seems like I'm gonna be perfectly happy with Doom 3. Adding realim to the gameplay = adding additional gameplay features.

Think about it, if they didn't try and make the game more realistic, we wouldn't have awesome gameplay stuff like realistic physics and the ability to shatter windows and set traps using world objects - if you think those detract from gameplay, then you seriously need to see a shrink (no offence).
And those cool things would seem out of place, if they don't add in the other realistic elements. Do you really want them to just have another Quake 1 or Quake 2?

Oh and on a related subject: I just played through E1 of Ultimate Doom and I noticed all those places where you trigger a hidden room to open up revealing some more monsters - those aren't really any different from the "pinky-bursting-through-a-wall" scripted sequences, because the same hidden room is always triggered when you get to that point (no replay value in that aspect). In Doom 3 those scripted sequences will just be cooler ways to have "a hidden room open up to reveal more monsters coming at you" - so it's not like Doom 3 will be any worse than Doom 1 in this aspect.

So far, I'm more worried about the cutscenes.

Heh. It's a tough situation. In my personal experience, a story-driven game is much more enjoyable the first time through, but once you're done, the replayability is killed. Unfortunately, we're pretty much guaranteed a story-driven game with Doom 3, on account of the fact that there was that thing with the writer guy hired to do the story. No point in doing that if the entire story's going to be in a text file or something. By the way, I don't see how Doom 3 would ever NOT be linear. I assumed it was pretty much given. Also, I'd like to point out that it'd be kind of weird to not focus on realism with such realistic graphics. Really, why bother with all that effort just to create levels which don't make any sense or look like they're based on reality at all?

geekmarine said:

Heh. It's a tough situation. In my personal experience, a story-driven game is much more enjoyable the first time through, but once you're done, the replayability is killed.

Soldier of Fortune - a story driven game with replayability. It's just a matter of making the game.

One example of a sequence that'd be perfect for Doom, inspired by Halflife Opposing Force:

During the start of the game, as you wander around the non-takenover base doing marine-y things, you pass a barred off window, which you can't quite see through. Hmm. Later, as you pass the same window, it shatters as a dead marine/scientist is thrown through, and something toothy leaps after it, like a cat chasing a mouse.

Arno said:

I would call a game a flop when the production costs are higher then the profit made by sales. I don't know if this is the case for Unreal 2. The game was in production for over 3 years, so the costs are probably pretty high.

Fair enough.

DSM speaks his mind.

Trasher][ said:
One example of a sequence that'd be perfect for Doom, inspired by Halflife Opposing Force:

During the start of the game, as you wander around the non-takenover base doing marine-y things, you pass a barred off window, which you can't quite see through. Hmm. Later, as you pass the same window, it shatters as a dead marine/scientist is thrown through, and something toothy leaps after it, like a cat chasing a mouse.

Again. Replayability value. Butchered.