Doom 3 Old Monster Design

I figured while I was on here I'd ask if anyone agreed with me on the subject that the Doom 3 monsters may have been scarier if they kept their original designs and where brought from 2d to 3d instead of changing what each one looks like completely. I mean just imaging how scary the pinkies and Cacodemons would look. And don't tell me that they did it to make it more realistic because it's a game so realism has no bounds.

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I thought that Doom 3's monster designs were scarier, and I think it had something to do with the fact they were more realistic. They appeared to be more believable than how the classic Doom games had made them. Plus, I think we all have grown so familiar with the classic monster designs, they aren't that "scary" anymore. Personally, I never found them to be scary. Interesting, but certainly not scary. Doom 3's monsters definitely had a bit of a creep factor for me.

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While not nearly as highly detailed, look at how the original designs look in 3D in the "high resolution pack" mods for Jdoom and the like. While they could certainly do with better models, higher res textures, stronger/newer engines, and animations that aren't awful and would doubtlessly be better with such improvements, the designs don't turn out all that well for plausibility in fictional realism, horror factor, or just generally looking all that great.

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Generally I like both the originals and the Doom 3 variations. Each suit their respective worlds.

The only updated monster design in Doom 3 which I never cared for was that of the cyberdemon. Personal taste I guess.

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DoomUK said:

Generally I like both the originals and the Doom 3 variations. Each suit their respective worlds.

The only updated monster design in Doom 3 which I never cared for was that of the [Cyberdemon Image]. Personal taste I guess.


Oddly enough, it's the exact opposite for me. Granted, I like the way some of the monsters look in Doom 3 (Arch-vile, Revenant and Mancubus are virtually the same), but the Cacodemon looked like a cheap Octabrain knockoff and while the Hell Knight looked like a decent D&D-inspired creature, it failed to capture the demonic menace the original Knight/Baron had. Call me old-fashioned I guess. Don't get me started on the Bull Demon.

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I think the only real flaw with Doom 3's monsters was the fact that there were no real horns or goatlegs.

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I was bothered by how seemingly every monster in DOOM 3 either had:

-no eyes

-too many eyes

-a skull face

Really, how does a cacodemon go from having a single eye to, like, a dozen of them.

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Marnetmar said:

I think the only real flaw with Doom 3's monsters was the fact that there were no real horns or goatlegs.

This.

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I recently found out that the original Cacodemon design was essentially inspired by/ripped-off from the Dungeons & Dragons Beholder/Astral Dreadnought monster. Could a lawsuit have been a factor in its redesign? No other monster is so drastically changed.

In fact, are there any interviews or statements that explain the redesigns?

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I like the attempt at recreating the classic designs, but I was overall underwhelmed, mostly because too many of the designs looked very similar or, like the cacodemon, just plain goofy. Yes, the original enemies are bright, cartoonish and and the humans have incorrect proportions, but look at how Doom 64 managed to reinterpret them, and actually did a really good job at it. There's no reason that Doom 3 couldn't have featured designs like the original, provided they had good art direction.

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Redstar said:

In fact, are there any interviews or statements that explain the redesigns?


Not that I immediately recall, though I assume the reasoning was something like, "These designs are really old. Let's make new ones."


GoatLord said:

...look at how Doom 64 managed to reinterpret them, and actually did a really good job at it.


That's debatable, but I will say that the DOOM 64 pain elemental was awesome.

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The Doom 3 monster designs are way more scarier and interesting. The old Doom monster designs are often cartoonish and look kind of juvenile, like some 1980s Heavy Metal music album cover inspired designs.

Megamur said:

I was bothered by how seemingly every monster in DOOM 3 either had:

-no eyes

-too many eyes

-a skull face


Mancubus, Arch-vile, Maggot, Cherub, Lost Soul, Wraith, Tick, and Vulgar have all 2 eyes (allthough you would probably count the Vulgar as a skull face). Only Imp, Vagary, Cacodemon and Trite has more then 2 eyes.

J-selva said:

Doom 64 Cacodemon is fucking awesome.


He kind of reminds me to those Monster Ball toys, so...

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Agreed. It was one of the most significantly creepier enemies in the game. Is your name based off the Cannibal Corpse song?

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GoatLord said:

Agreed. It was one of the most significantly creepier enemies in the game. Is your name based off the Cannibal Corpse song?


Yes my name is

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Spinesplitter said:

the doom 64 pinky is terrifying

Yes. I always thought the Doom64 enemies looked badass. Even if the Trooper and Shotgunner looked exactly the same.

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I prefer the original design's to Doom 3's. I feel they pack more power and come off as more bad ass. I would of preferred if they took the old designs and updated them. Like what they did with Serious Sam BFE or Duke Nukem * come on now people DNF wasn't that terrible :P *

The only Demon that truly got updated from the original design was the Lost soul. Which sadly was in the expansion and was renamed the Forgotten one. :(
Some of the other Demons like the Arch-vile and Revenant got revisions based off the old designs, which were fairly cool looking. I thought the Zsec Shotgun Zombie was a pretty creative redesign of the Former Human Sergeant. But again I would of rather had a gruff bald angry looking Marine covered in blood.

Not to say I didn't liked Doom 3's zoo of Demons and Former Humans. They certainly achieved the goal the artists had in mind. Where as the first two Doom games had Demons and Zombies who were muscle bound and looked unstoppable, the Doom 3 Demons had this dark creepy, animal like feel to them.

Both games just had two different objectives in mind. Doom was a Heavy metal music video with Conan the Barbarian chasing Demons with a Chainsaw. Doom 3 was a dark horror setting that made its Demons prey off of our fears. The goal was to creep us out with Demons we would find uncomfortable to look at. Cherubs and Lost souls come to mind.

As for the reason for the change. It was just a change of Art direction. Adrian Carmack created the designs for the characters and enemies in id softwares games up until I think Quake 2. Quake 3 is when you see a subtle change in the art style of id's games. I'm assuming this but by the time of Doom 3, it looks like Adrian's input on character and creature design was pretty much him handing his old sketchs to Kenneth Scott. And this is when we see a big change in id's art style, at least imho.

But yeah Doom 1 and 2 was Adrian Carmack and Doom 3 was Kenneth Scott. I would say Adrian had a more Western style of art influenced by Dnd and Frazetta. Kenneth Scott on the other hand draws a lot of influence from all over, but I would say one of his biggest influences would be anime, particularly stuff like Ghost in the Shell.

Something I also noticed was that Cod pieces became a thing in id games around Quake 3... which just so happens to be the time Kenneth Scott joined id.... just a thought :P

But both are superb artists and I look up to them as artists. I think we all know about Adrian's ejection at id but I think it would interest you guys to know that Kenneth Scott has also left id recently. He's working over at 343, doing that whole Halo thing :) So I wouldn't be suprised if the next Doom had a new art style.

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As others have said, they art different art styles and they are fitting for what they were meant to do. Classic Doom, being the heavy metal inspired artwork, and Doom 3, being a 'realistic' and uncomfortable interpretation of the classic monsters, are both good in their own ways.

However, one thing that I hate is that the new Lost Souls (not the Forgotten) are floating heads that use motors / jet engines to propel them forward. I find floating, flaming heads scary, not floating motorized heads. The motors take away from the surreality and supernatural qualities. I'm fine with the Cyberdemon, even the Pinky, having mechanical parts, but something that's supposed to be even more supernatural and, in a sense, spiritual shouldn't have any.

And on the eye thing, the only creatures without eyes are the Pinky Demon and Hell's Guardian (who has Seekers, so he still has a sense of vision).

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Exact recreations of classic designs definitely would not work, however I think a re-interpretation of the original design that still resembles the original could be pulled off quite well.

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Marnetmar said:

I think the only real flaw with Doom 3's monsters was the fact that there were no real horns or goatlegs.

Didn't the Doom 3 hell knights have hooves?

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Doomsfall said:

Didn't the Doom 3 hell knights have hooves?


They're more like elephant feet, only without the padding with as much noise as they make walking.

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The Doom 2 and Doom 3 Mancubus have the Elephant type of feet. I would say the D3 Hell Knight has a more avian style of foot.


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MacBeth said:

The Doom 2 and Doom 3 Mancubus have the Elephant type of feet. I would say the D3 Hell Knight has a more avian style of foot.


It looks like he's walking on his toes like an elephant does. He also has that backwards heel thing going on like a bird, so I can see that too. Nonetheless, they're not hooves. At least, not a goat hoof.

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I wonder why id skimped on the demonic details. Maybe they thought it was cheesy to go for a "satanic" look.

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J-selva said:

Doom 64 Cacodemon is fucking awesome.

*sighs* You mean the Pain Elemental? Because DOOM 64 fucked up the Cacodemon and Pain Elemental design...

Now when you say DOOM 64 Cacodemon you mean DOOM PC Pain Elemental

And when you say DOOM 64 Pain Elemental you mean DOOM PC Cacodemon...

*sighs*

MIDWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I thought they were scary.
Nothing scared the shit out of me as much as opening a door to a Hell Knight.

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