Lost Mission's Hell Levels (Spontaneous Marnetmar Moment)

Holy fuck holy fuck holy fuck holy fuck holy FUCK

Everything about them is fucking PERFECT. EVERYTHING. If Doom 4 (assuming it ever sees the light of day) needs to take any notes, it can start here.

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They're far from perfect. Most of the rooms involve waves of teleporting monsters / kill to progress gameplay. It needs to feel like you're exploring rather than Painkiller arcade shoot'em up sections. But to be fair some locations do look really good. Some look like crap though.

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Yeah, they looked perfect. There was that walkway that felt more like the Hell levels of Maximo that Doom. Of course, I'm strange enough to like that kinda thing.

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Visually, they are perfect for a number of reasons:

1. They really feel like classic Doom, or rather classic Doom with a touch of Quake here and there.

2.Each room is unique. This is a huge improvement because although Doom 3 had a ton of variety within sections (Alpha Labs, Recycling etc.) they had little variety within the levels themselves. The hell levels fix this by making each room unique. You go through a large open arena, a demonic cathedral, a demonic floating pathway leading to a castle made of bone flesh and stone, cages filled with lava, a martian section. You even went on a boat!

They did have some noticeable imperfections though:

1. The action, while intense, was boring and predictable. Monsters spawned in one by on (huge mistake) and ammo was waaaay too plentiful.

2. Could have been longer, maybe we could have had a whole Hell episode. Goodness knows Doom 3 needed it.

3. They are entirely linear, throwing away the decent amount of exploration Doom 3 had. Id needs to understand that Doom was NEVER a PURELY horror or action game, it was a clever combination of BOTH that led to amazing atmosphere coupled with amazing action. The hell levels feel more like Painkiller which is TOTALLY not like Doom at ALL. I keep seeing messages on the internet on how Painkiller was the real Doom 3 but they are totally misguided. To demonstrate the fact that Doom is a combination pay attention to levels like E1M5, E1M7 and E2M7. E1M5 especially demonstrates this. There is a ton of action in the level but the very last level is a dark room full of SPECTERS. I can't even imagine how scary this was back then, mostly because it was UNEXPECTED, which is the total opposite of Doom 3. In my opinion, making Doom 4 a purely action oriented game would be a HUGE mistake, comparable to making Doom 3 a purely horror game. Doom has always been a combination of both.

4. You might not have noticed this but the Hell level was made ENTIRELY out of STOCK Doom 3 assets which is great because Id basically did what Doomworld does in some of the map packs. Making vanilla maps but as detailed as possible with limited resources. Places like the Cathedral and the pathway leading to the castle are already visually very good and the fact that they were made with stock resources make them even more impressive. Makes you wonder how Doom 3 would have turned out had there been 7 levels of extra hell in it.

All in all, I agree with your assessment that they were very good but they could have been a lot better. They are certainly better than the new tech bases though.

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DooM_RO said:

Painkiller

I almost thought you won't bring it up.

DooM_RO said:

You might not have noticed this but the Hell level was made ENTIRELY out of STOCK Doom 3 assets which is great because Id basically did what Doomworld does in some of the map packs.

And that's why Lost Mission feels more like an amateur level set.

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Marnetmar said:

Holy fuck holy fuck holy fuck holy fuck holy FUCK

Everything about them is fucking PERFECT. EVERYTHING. If Doom 4 (assuming it ever sees the light of day) needs to take any notes, it can start here.


After seeing the Lost Mission Hell myself and running a quick comparison to Doom 3/RoE Hell, I can only agree to this.

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Da Werecat said:

I almost thought you won't bring it up.


And that's why Lost Mission feels more like an amateur level set.


I think using the stock resources is a positive thing. For starters, it shows that Id can do great stuff with little and secondly, they were probably an exercise for Doom 4. The fact that the maps feel so much like Doom (at least visually) warms the heart. I loved the puke-green walls (like in the original) but people often fail to acknowledge that Doom was a very bright and colorful game. I would've liked to see bright blood-red walls too.

P.S Painkiller and Serious Sam are horrible games and deserve to be bashed at every opportunity.

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DooM_RO said:

For starters, it shows that Id can do great stuff with little and secondly, they were probably an exercise for Doom 4.

Hopefully, Doom 4 won't consist of recycled Doom 3 assets. That would be too much.

DooM_RO said:

Painkiller and Serious Sam are horrible games and deserve to be bashed at every opportunity.

Looks like it's really important for you.

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Da Werecat said:

Hopefully, Doom 4 won't consist of recycled Doom 3 assets. That would be too much.


I sure hope so, I mean we wouldn't want another Doom 2 right?

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They need to stop making games so dreadfully easy nowadays, the original Doom 3 already had more than enough ammo particularly shells, on my latest original Doom 3 playthrough I already had up to 286 something shells when using mostly the other weapons and the shotgun every few times, there's more than enough ammo to accumulate already without the BFG version changes.

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It's not like the original Doom wasn't a cakewalk on UV. Did you know that they added Nightmare in a patch because people thought the game was too easy?

I do agree that the ammo in Doom 3 was way too much on the generous side - even without the BFG edition.

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The original Doom was too easy because of the way the maps were created, they didn't put in enough effort in mapping like many mappers today have with their difficult megawads.

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The hell section of Doom 3 was one thing they nailed. I've just realised I've got one of the Doom 3 expansions on Steam, maybe I'll put my Doom 3 prejudice aside and give it a go. I'd love to play a D3 megawad set in hell.

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DooM_RO said:

I do agree that the ammo in Doom 3 was way too much on the generous side - even without the BFG edition.

Not so in RoE. If you pretend the artifact doesn't exist (except for solving mandatory gimmicks), you'll likely run out of all ammo.

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If you want an example of extremely well designed Hell levels for Doom 3. I would suggest the mod In Hell Director's Cut 1.1. It's a great mod for DOOM 3, and adds in 21 new hell levels into DOOM 3. And also, download Bladeghost's weapon mod. And then take the Shotgun model from that mod and replace the Doom 3 Shotgun model with it, and you will be singing alleluia all day long, because he did an excellent job at remaking the original shotgun from DOOM 1. It makes me jump with joy at the sight of it. :D

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