What I fear in Doom 4.

I didn't say they should copy BD verbatim, on the contrary. The First Person monster fatalities could be skippable. Problem solved.

I do agree that BD is a double edged sword for the community though. On one hand it brings more people to the game, on the other hand all the retards are demanding classic maps to be rebalanced for Brutal Doom which I find unacceptable.

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I think it should take notes from Brutal Doom. Watching monster on monster fatalities would be sweet.

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I think there is no way it could possibly live up to any sort of expectations.

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DooM_RO said:
I do agree that BD is a double edged sword for the community though. On one hand it brings more people to the game, on the other hand all the retards are demanding classic maps to be rebalanced for Brutal Doom which I find unacceptable.

The DOOM community has never needed a use for something like Brutal Doom to bring people to it - DOOM just has the modders appeal, that's all.

Having a gore mod is one thing, but having something that completely changes the gameplay for shock value is NOT DOOM, at all. DOOM is the last thing I think of when I play Brutal Doom, and I know that sounds stupid, but it's true.

And..monster on monster fatalities??? What about JUST infighting? Why do we need "fatalities" in DOOM?. smh

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I can't see why monsters couldn't do skippable first person fatalities on players.

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It doesn't and shouldn't be like BD. That doesn't mean it can't take a few notes.

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DooM_RO said:

It doesn't and shouldn't be like BD. That doesn't mean it can't take a few notes.


You mean like with a notepad?

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I could see a it taking a few ideas from Brutal Doom.

For instance, it would be rather amusing to see monsters ripping each other apart during their throws of infighting.

Having a similar level of precision to injuring your opponents would also be a nice tweak to the old school gameplay. Taking off heads, or disabling a limb to change enemy behavior.

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DooM_RO said:

It doesn't and shouldn't be like BD. That doesn't mean it can't take a few notes.

Yes, notes on what not to do.

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I loved the hell-knight post death scene in the Doom3 alpha. As a general death sequence though? No thanks. The Wolfenstein3D death (The screen freezing) is probably my all time favorite.

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Shaviro said:

I loved the hell-knight post death scene in the Doom3 alpha. As a general death sequence though? No thanks. The Wolfenstein3D death (The screen freezing) is probably my all time favorite.


Not even if skippable?

Sodaholic said:

Yes, notes on what not to do.


I suppose you're ok with the sup-par gore in Doom 3...

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I think the only serious problem with gore in Doom 3 is that you can gib with a pistol. Or a punch. I know, I know, optimization, but what about suspension of disbelief?

Shaviro said:

I loved the hell-knight post death scene in the Doom3 alpha. As a general death sequence though? No thanks.

Clive Barker's Undying did that. The scenes were in third person and I thought they made the game more grim. The only problem was that you couldn't skip them.

While I can understand why they did that, it's a questionable tactic.

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DooM_RO said:

I suppose you're ok with the sup-par gore in Doom 3...

Oh, please. I want a goreless game just because I find ear-rape and painting almost literally every surface red tasteless and annoying?

The way Doom 3 handled it was absolutely shitty. Its version of "gibbing" was to cheaply dissolve the skin on the ragdoll mesh. I'd prefer something like a more developed Quake gibbing system. Have dynamically thrown objects, but make them unique parts of the body it came from rather than generic nondescript meatballs. The result should be something with as much detail as the original hand-crafted sprite deaths, but in real time and 3D.

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Alien Trilogy had (some really bad)death cut scenes depending on how you died (It was usually a final insult to one simple mistake).

I think that death scenes should be involved to a small degree, like a one off thing (Die in the first hellknight encounter and you see the hellknight death scene, but at any other point you do not).

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Sodaholic said:

Its version of "gibbing" was to cheaply dissolve the skin on the ragdoll mesh.

Not cheaply.

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Da Werecat said:

Not cheaply.

I didn't mean cheap in the required computer power sense, but rather that it looked lazy and chinsy.

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I dunno, I liked it.

There isn't just one layer of skin. Every gibbable character has a visible skeleton that dissolves with a delay. Rather neat.

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Yeah, I know of the skeleton underneath. I still don't like it, I'd rather see chunks moving about than a mere visual effect on a clearly intact ragdoll.

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Let's face it: Brutal Doom is quite possibly the most famous Doom mod of all time. Even young kids who know nothing about Doom suddenly thought Doom was cool after seeing BD. And really, BD is how a lot of people view Doom. Just look at that old Doom comic: DoomGuy as a screaming idiot, blasting things into chunks in stupidly over-the-top ways. It pretty much goes hand-in-hand with Brutal Doom, and that was made years ago, verifying that viewing the series as a dumb, goofy, hyper-violent action game is not solely a modern opinion.

So if they really want sales, that's probably what they'll have to do. Just embrace the blood-spraying, heavy metal idiocy that everyone assumes Doom is and win over a new audience. Probably would've worked for the new Splatterhouse if the game didn't have such terrible load times and less-than-stellar production values.

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Megamur said:

Let's face it: Brutal Doom is quite possibly the most famous Doom mod of all time. Even young kids who know nothing about Doom suddenly thought Doom was cool after seeing BD. And really, BD is how a lot of people view Doom. Just look at that old Doom comic: DoomGuy as a screaming idiot, blasting things into chunks in stupidly over-the-top ways. It pretty much goes hand-in-hand with Brutal Doom, and that was made years ago, verifying that viewing the series as a dumb, goofy, hyper-violent action game is not solely a modern opinion.

So if they really want sales, that's probably what they'll have to do. Just embrace the blood-spraying, heavy metal idiocy that everyone assumes Doom is and win over a new audience. Probably would've worked for the new Splatterhouse if the game didn't have such terrible load times and less-than-stellar production values.

Doom is not suppose to have an over the top, blood thirsty personality protagonist, I mean he's fighting against creatures from hell, hes not gonna be screaming insults and enjoying shooting demons, he is going to be terrified while pushing to stay alive. BD just messed up the Doomguy by making him sound like a retarded drunk while imitating Duke Nukem.

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DooM_RO said:

I suppose you're ok with the sup-par gore in Doom 3...


So what? Doom 3 is better than Brutal Doom anyways.

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Doominator2 said:

Doom is not suppose to have an over the top, blood thirsty personality protagonist

Of course not, but a lot of people who don't know Doom all that well think it's supposed to, so maybe it would be best for them to pander to that audience.

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Megamur said:

Of course not, but a lot of people who don't know Doom all that well think it's supposed to, so maybe it would be best for them to pander to that audience.

And piss off the Hardcore fans? I mean we live in an era of casual gamers and mindless, buff Video game protagonists but id isn't going to change their silent protagonist into an obnoxious, bloodthirsty fool on steroids, I mean look at Wolfenstein 09, BJ isn't going around yelling "Seige Heil, huh Seige Hell" while flipping the bird and taking a diarrhea dump on his dead enemies. Its not going to happen because its not going to appeal to the majority of gamers.

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What I fear in Doom 4 pretty much became reality when Doom 3 BFG came out. They actually listened to all the whiney bastards who couldn't see and couldn't beat the mildly challenging parts and dumbed the game down even further. Too much health, enemies actually removed from some of the tougher fights where there were more than 2 demons to deal with. They pretty much fucking crippled the game. I fear that they'll continue down that path with Doom 4. Like everything else these days, it will be watered down to make it fair to the lowest common denominator.

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I fear that Doom 4 will simply be mediocre, like Doom 3 was. It had a lot of atmosphere and immersion, but there were numerous missed opportunities in the art direction and the general presentation, and of course the gameplay mechanics. I'd hate to see a Doom 4 where everything just looks and feels generic. I don't need to be blown away by next-gen graphics and hyper realistic physics. The designs of the monsters, environments, guns, characters and my interactions with them are what's important, and I'm sure id knows this by now.

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I really agree with that you said Goatlord, especially with your idea that art direction > graphics especially since nowadays fidelity is not as important especially since even ordinary games look convincing enough but I think a game cannot be called mediocre if SOMTHING in it is above average. Doom 3 wasn't amazing but it was better than average.

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DooM_RO said:

I suppose you're ok with the sup-par gore in Doom 3...


Some of us prefer lesser gore, you know.

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