New Tutorial

I have a new tutorial up on my ZDoom Tech page explaining how to us DeepSea for graphic importing and texture creation.

I salute! ;)

Tell me Rick. Give it to me straight. Is Deepsea better than
WadAuthor? I really want to know, cause the only way that jackass from the DeepTeam is going to get me to try it out (let alone get my money) is if Deepsea rocks. Thanks.

What?! You're darn right DeePsea rocks!! If you won't take my word for it, then wait for Rick to respond.. :-b

stphrz said:

Tell me Rick. Give it to me straight. Is Deepsea better than
WadAuthor? I really want to know, cause the only way that jackass from the DeepTeam is going to get me to try it out (let alone get my money) is if Deepsea rocks. Thanks.

Well, talking about editors is like talking about religion: You are right and everyone else is wrong. :) Everyone has their favorite and everyone else has their head stuck... Well, you get the idea. :)

All I can do is give you my opinion. Is DeepSea better? It depends on how you define better. In my view, it isn't any better than WadAuthor, just different. Each editor/tool has strengths and weaknesses. The goal is to maximize an editor's/tool's strengths to your style of editing. For me, that usually means using more than one tool.

For example, I like sector based editing. I started editing with Deu and I thought linedef edtiting was pretty dumb. That is why I moved to DMapEdit when it came out, since it had a good sector based editing tool. I then moved to WA mainly because it was a Windows based editor. I don't do DOS anymore. (Too bad since I really like DMapEdit).

I did Apoch1.wad in two hours; I did Apoch2.wad in two hours; I did Apoch3.wad in about 4 hours. All with WadAuthor, a sector based editor. I doubt you could do it any better, or faster, with a linedef editor. For me, it is simply not true to say that a sector based editor is too slow or hard. On the other hand, WadAuthor's texture alignment sucks. I did most of the texture alignment in those maps by hand. DeepSea's texture alignment is second to none.

What a person has to do is to get a set of tools that work with their own style of editing. Luckily, you can try all the tools we have avaialble for free to see if they work for you. If a tool works for you and can you afford it (if it cost), then get it. It's that simple. If you feel comfortable where you are at, then why worry about it.

DeepSea does has some nice features. However, a feature is only pertinent, if it offers the user a benefit. (Oh, how people forget that). Just because a product has a feature, does not mean it automatically makes it "better" than a product that does not have the same feature.

For example, the graphic editor in DeepSea: I use PSP for making my graphics. The graphic editor in DeepSea offers me no benefit, so I don't care about it. However, the import function in DeepSea is a benefit since WinTex doesn't handle ZDoom wads.

The only person that can tell you if a tool is right for you is you. Try it and see.

Thanks Rick. The reason I asked you is because you have used WadAuthor for a long time and have become very used to it. I'm
used to it as well. I reasoned if you could quickly acclimate
yourself to DeepSea then I could too. I've been thinking about
trying my hand someday at Zdoom editing, but like you said Wintex
doesn't handle ZDoom wads. Maybe I will give it a shot.

Wildman said:

Oh come on!! Admit it already! DeePsea is better than WadAuthor! Sheesh!! :-b

Well it can certainly do more stuff. Faaak, learning how to use it is gonna take forever. Maybe I'll be able to make a wad with it by the time I'm 50 :)

Wildman said:

Nice job - pretty, simple and concise - thanks.

Just another note of clarification though. The DeePsea graphics tool is not meant to be PSP. What it excells at (and can't be done easily by PSP), is taking existing DOOM graphics and combining them together (via paste) into one image. The key word is that it works in the native format (although you can import BMP/PCX images too) - so results are relatively instantaneous vs using PSP. Press F1 in drawing mode to see some special commands.

Since it recognizes "transparency" it's simple, for example, to put sprite stuff on a wall.

It's true that editor discussions tend to get a bit to frantic like religion, mainly because, like religion, it tends to be irrational:) I do think that as one fully explores DeePsea more and more preconceptions can be addressed though<g>

Although it's not emphasized, DeePsea can mimic "sector" editing by using the "sector" tools - press F9 and there's a set of tools virtually the same as WadAuthor - with a few additions. Press F1 when using one of the sector tools to get a quick overview. (DEU is a totally different beast; what I'd call a "dot" based editor).

Conceptually, in DeePsea sector tools, there is a distinction between a "room" and an "object". DeePsea users have to understand the DOOM format since with almost total drawing freedom, it's easier to make stuff that needs fixing. Typically, DEU/DCK users find it easier to learn. Why is that?

Because unlike a fixed format sector editor, what is created by an author is NOT 100% controlled by the editor - meaning that the author has to be able to quickly fix sector references. But DeePsea has tools to quickly do same - another topic - tools that also serve a wider range then just "fixing".

Even if one choose the "sector" approach in DeePsea there are differences. Here's just 2. The "sector" tools are interactive, meaning you can change the size/attributes before final placement. You can merge lines just by dragging one line on top of another - you do not have to be at a vertex (as I recall?).

For an example of stuff that's -extremely- difficult to do with WadAuthor (sector type editor), you'd have to be a glutton for punishment:), look at MAP05 in DOOM2000. For detailed construction, the number of steps in line drawing is significantly less, mainly because in line drawing, the final object desired is drawn directly. No further work is required for the shape. Once one learns the -different- skills required for getting to the final goal, a line editor for detailed (not simple) projects is arguably much faster:)

Finally, it's true that each person's skills/tastes determine the appropriateness of whatever editor. Sort of like computer languages. Some prefer BASIC and some C/C++ and some still like assembler. Each infer a different level of detail, responsibility and knowledge on the designers.

stphrz said:

Well it can certainly do more stuff. Faaak, learning how to use it is gonna take forever. Maybe I'll be able to make a wad with it by the time I'm 50 :)

Why? It only took me a couple of weeks to become completely fluent with it.

I was exaggerating a bit. I think I'll continue to use WadAuthor for making maps. I'll use DeepSea to import graphics and lumps etc. It will be replacing Wintex. I'll also use it for texture alignment too. I haven't recieved my income tax refund yet so it will probably be a month or so before I can register it.