doom oddities

Ct_red_pants said:

There's one map in Doom 2 where you don't need all the keys to exit, even though it appears you are supposed to. The Citadel, I think (forgot the map number).

There are many maps in Doom and Doom 2 where you don't need all (or any) of the keys that id intended you to need. For example, you only need one key in Map21, and you don't need any in Map16 and Map27 (see the Compet-N or TAS demos for proof). I suspect that in Map19, id only intended you to need two keys though. I mean, it is hardly difficult to get through that gap.

DooMer 4ever said:

Maybe it's just my imagination, but the monsters seem to fire more often when they are far away. My little brother was the one who pointed me this out, and I think he may be right. Especially the imps and hell knights/baron of hells seem to fire more often at long distances.

That is not your imagination, its actually programmed to work this way, and one reason is so that enemies with both a melee attack and a missile attack will gradually close to scratch/punch/etc.

Some interesting differences amongst enemies, which Eternity now allows you to place on ANY enemy via the Bits2 field:

Revenants who are closer than 192 units to their target will randomly defer from their missile attack, such that they close to melee range much faster.

Archviles more than about 700 units away from their target will not attack at all.

Cyberdemons have a higher ramp-up for missile attack probability. The chance for a normal enemy 160 units away is about 27%, but its 33% for a cyb, etc etc.

Cyberdemons, Spiderdemons, and Lost Souls actually consider themselves to be twice as close to you than they actually are under some circumstances.

This is all very cool stuff :P

Draconio said:

There's one map in Doom 2 where you don't need all the keys to exit, even though it appears you are supposed to. The Citadel, I think (forgot the map number)...

I saw a weird lmp of a trick on Doom 2 MAP07. It involved respawning mosters, and when the trigger monsters were all killed a second time after respawing, the step that allows you to reach the exit raises even higher.

There's two maps actually, the Citadel, and map 21 (I forget its name) that are like this. On the Citadel, you need the blue key and one other key, even though there are three posts blocking the "portal to hell" at the end. On MAP21, you only need the yellow and red keys to exit -- the blue walls are so far apart you can easily walk through them.

There's another trick you can do on the citadel -- the outside parts of the river near the portal area are blocked by torches. If you try long and hard enough, it is actually possible to squeeze between the walls and some of the torches. I've only done this 3 times in my whole life, and it seems to be totally impossible in some source ports.

Also, on MAP23 I believe it is, there's a wall made up of some fairly widely spaced columns that are controlled by a switch behind a keyed door -- if you press into these long and hard enough, you can go through them too. Woe unto he who wants back out, though -- fortunately there's a teleporter to elsewhere hidden in a secret area back there :->

On MAP21, you only need the yellow and red keys to exit

You don't need the yellow key either.

Also, on MAP23 I believe it is, there's a wall made up of some fairly widely spaced columns that are controlled by a switch behind a keyed door -- if you press into these long and hard enough, you can go through them too.

That's MAP22.

Meh, if we're counting Compet-N level tricks, there'll be a lot of oddities to list...

On map 27, you can squeeze past the long pancase with the blue banner in the middle of it (avoiding the trap), by squeezing through the gap between it and the sludge.

deathwarrior said:

yeah, it doesn't matter what x or y position that you are at when the bfg ball explodes, but you have to facing the direction the bfg was shot.

eh what?

The BFG tracers do damage in the direction you originally fired the BFG, no matter what direction you are facing when the ball explodes.

Quasar said:

That is not your imagination, its actually programmed to work this way, and one reason is so that enemies with both a melee attack and a missile attack will gradually close to scratch/punch/etc.

All the monters in Doom close in on the player, even those without a melee attack. i never understood this. Sure it's needed at some capacity for the monters to be able to track the player, but the shooting monters should keep their distance at some point.

The weapon wielding monsters are much more dangerous up close than from a distance usually, so it's advantageous for them to close in too.

Erik said:

The BFG tracers do damage in the direction you originally fired the BFG, no matter what direction you are facing when the ball explodes.

really? i never actually seen that happen.

deathwarrior said:

really? i never actually seen that happen.

It happens everytime you use the BFG but if you think about it you can only 'see' it happen when you're facing in the same direction. A good way to experience it is to fire at a distant wall just missing say an imp, turn you back, wait a second or two, turn around and he'll be dead, nice.

Ultimate DooMer said:

Another (annoying) bug. Firing the bfg and then looking away after the green ball has appeared causes no damage whatsoever to the monsters. Stupid!

Absolutely not true. Read the BFG FAQ. The BFG requires good understanding and skill to use in it's most effective manner.Watch some of the Compet-N demos e.g. PL32, Ander's 348 or stx-Vile's 337...absolutely awesome. It's hard to believe the BFG can do so much damage until you see it done.

Oh, if it hasn't been mentioned...Doom2 Map10...you can squeeze between the 'fence' and the wall just to the right of the exit door.

How 'bout this one...I remember in shareware doom, in e1m5 there was a room where the middle part could come down. it was shaped like a swastika...but in subsequnt versions it was changed. Not an oddity, but something I can remember from back in the day.

Quast said:

How 'bout this one...I remember in shareware doom, in e1m5 there was a room where the middle part could come down. it was shaped like a swastika...but in subsequnt versions it was changed. Not an oddity, but something I can remember from back in the day.

It was E1M4 actually. I believe it was changed to its current form as early as v.1.1. According to Romero, it wasn't deliberate and wasn't intended to be a swastika.

Eh... the swastika was intentional enough, it was a reference to Wolfenstein. Also, it was removed later than that... it's still in v1.2

I think the swastika was removed in 1.4, IIRC. Was there a 1.666 of original Doom? Oh and Romero is trying to save his ass. He designed that map and there's no way it was done unintentionally.

Yup. There's a 1.666 of original Doom. It's the last version of Doom 1 before the upgrade to Ultimate Doom (1.9). Not to mention, Doom version 1.666 is what SNES Doom was based off of. You can tell by some map changes and the enemy and item placements. Also, the swastika was changed twice. It was a swastika in 1.1 (and I think 1.2), changed by 1.666, and changed once again by 1.9.

I've had a revenant's rocket circle around me infinitely.

In level wad I can't remember the name of there were some steps shaped like the beginning of Doom 2 map01 but taller. I shot an imp with the normal shotgun and its corpse slid straight back up a few steps, then changed direction 90 degrees and slid over to the side a good distance.

Also the Spidermastermind's and heavy weapon dude's chainguns both sound like a shotgun but the spider's gun really is a rapid shotgun while I think the heavy weapon dude's is like a rapid pistol. This is a little odd but it makes sense.

Gokuma said:

I've had a revenant's rocket circle around me infinitely.

Me too, pretty cool when that happens isn't it?

I seem to remember all shotguns being worth 4 shells, (even unused ones) in shareware 1.1

And of course, the 199% health and infinite armour limit in 1.2

It's happened to me a couple of times, but one I remember was in map
4 or 5 (I think... the one with all the crates and the underground nukage
system) of Eternal Doom. I killed a Cacodemon onto a spot where there
was a sort of a 'track' running along the ground and it kept
sliding back and forth forever.

elbryan42 said:

Yup. There's a 1.666 of original Doom. It's the last version of Doom 1 before the upgrade to Ultimate Doom (1.9). Not to mention, Doom version 1.666 is what SNES Doom was based off of. You can tell by some map changes and the enemy and item placements. Also, the swastika was changed twice. It was a swastika in 1.1 (and I think 1.2), changed by 1.666, and changed once again by 1.9.

What do you mean it was changed twice? There is no swastika in 1.666, what difference do you say think there is between 1.4 and 1.666? I'll check soon enough, I bet that structure stayed the same once it was altered to remove the swastika shape. By the way, 1.666 is not the last before 1.9. I have the registered version of 1.8. Go to the historic section of idstuff in idgames, it has all the doom shareware releases. The ones named "bt" were shareware only, the rest had registered versions.

Use3D: I do not think Romero ever said it was unintentional. The only thing I've seen him say (at his page) is that they removed it cause people complained. Why would he want to save his ass when in doom2 id didn't mind placing the Hitler portraits?

Heres a pic of a Baron fighting a Baron

http://www.geocities.com/dumbassb2002/DOOM0012.zip


Have you ever seen a baron fight a baron!

Ct_red_pants said:

The Wolfenstein Nazis always appear to face towards you when firing, even if they are aiming somewhere else. Freaky, but it is true to Wolfenstein (except that in the real Wolfenstein, Nazis do not infight so you never had to worry about them shooting at anyone else).

That's not really a bug. It was meant like that because there weren't any sprites of the SSwolfie shooting at any other angles except foward.

Gokuma said:

I've had a revenant's rocket circle around me infinitely.

Something similar happened to me recently. I think a revenant must have targeted an enemy that I subsequently killed. I wandered away from the area, but came back to the cleared out area much later on to find the rocket still circling in the air above a pile of corpses.

in map05 "the waste tunels" from memory. to the very left of the map from starting position there are some lost souls. There are to placed on top of eachother, so neither can move untill the other i dead.

Yes, map31 (in the area with barrels) and e2m6 (in a niche that opens in a hallway) also have monsters that are stuck.

In some version of Doom II (1.7a IIRC), there is a HOM in the Citadel
in the room with the caged imps up high right before the red key.

http://www.kwic.com/~junior/hom.gif (bad dithering)

drav35 said:

Heres a pic of a Baron fighting a Baron

http://www.geocities.com/dumbassb2002/DOOM0012.zip


Have you ever seen a baron fight a baron!

No I haven't, but I have heard two demons biting each other to death -- sounds kind of like "snarl snarl snarl snarl snarl snarl!" until one dies :->

drav35 said:

Heres a pic of a Baron fighting a Baron

http://www.geocities.com/dumbassb2002/DOOM0012.zip


Have you ever seen a baron fight a baron!

I've seen a baron scratch himself to death. I seem to remember it having something to do with barrels....