whats your resolution?

Kojak_Man said:

PRBooM with v1.9 compatability doesn't feel any different from the original. Heck any percieved differences would most likely be imagined since it has 99.9% v1.9 demo compatability (which can be considered the real test of how true the game is to the original.)

Don't forget that when you play (or record) in 1.9 compatibility mode, you get GF49 tics instead of GF50 (a small but significant difference), and that you can't use savegames. It is possible for a port to have excellent demo playback compatibility but to make significant changes when you actually play using it.

21" Philips and GeForce FX 5950 Ultra... 'nuff said.

Fredrik said:

320x200 low detail mode.

Oh the memories...
I didn't even play in low detail mode back when I played Doom on a crappy 44 MhZ 386SX - preferred the smallest screen size instead :-P

Doom 2, however, seemed to run in a more playable fashion, so I upped the screen size a tad and put low detail mode on.

Fun times :-P

Now I dunno which resolution to pick really, so I experiment a bit around.

c-cooper said:

21" Philips and GeForce FX 5950 Ultra... 'nuff said.

Gimme

1024x768 @85Hz on a 17" monitor for everything, even Halo

Kojak_Man said:
You know, I also get tired of people moaning that the only 'proper' way to play the game is with the original exe.

You babble, my humble friend. The people who proudly say that simply use Doom. Why would they say anything else when that is what they prefer and like?

and PRBooM with v1.9 compatability doesn't feel any different from the original. Heck any percieved differences would most likely be imagined since it has 99.9% v1.9 demo compatability (which can be considered the real test of how true the game is to the original.)

The difference starts from the controls, not only but especially the mouse, then also all the lifted limits and added paraphernalia (in addition to things like what Grazza mentioned.) People who pay attention to subtleties well know how much of a difference all this can make, especially when added up. And people do. Plus it's not a question of changing the playing standards and platform... there is no bounds for that, so it becomes pointless in regards to this type of play in a community where everyone thinks differently. Keep things simple and they will work, will be recognizable, and fully compatible.

Needless to mention, as for being more true to the original, nothing beats the original itself.

Why deny ourselves the cosmetic benefits of new technology in the name of 'purism' (Geez, I feel like I'm talking to conservative fundamentalists.)

Are they fundamentalists perchance because your "hi res is better/prettier" dogma can't be driven into their heads?

Playing the original serves for nostalgia purposes only and the only other reason I can see for it is demo recording.

That's quite sententious too. I'm sure that'll teach those fundamentalists!

By the way, nostalgia has nothing to do with hardcore Doom playing; it's played for the moment and in sport-like fashion. It has nothing to do with idly wandering in a map that may once have seemed good and brings back certain mild melancholic feelings of fading pleasure. It's about the action and the competition and the fun. Now. If you're afraid to be labelled nostalgic for playing DOOM, you think playing with a higher resolution, or on Windows XP, will save you? On the contrary, really, as not playing on the real thing, but on an imitation, you don't really experience it anymore and instead view the actual game as nostalgic, and thus the modification as well.

The most awesome thing about DOOM, as it is, with its basic engine, is its no-frills simplicity, which works like a charm. People who have qualms about it for whatever reason can use one of the many source hacks and have their own type of fun, but that doesn't change the fact that the idea of a fixed, down to earth, pure standard is quite appealing, effective, and irreplaceable.

From a day to day individual perspective it may seem that small details and changes don't count, but the truth is that in the long run, the original game plays a fundamental role in defining the game without which all its modifications could not exist, nor subsist.

Myk, stop it. You are exactly the kind of fundamentalist he was talking about. From your post I get the feeling you aren't even considering his opinion to be valid.

Face it: Except for a small number of very hardcore Doomers the original EXE is as good as dead. Not only due to its insufficient resolution, the much more serious problem is that it won't work properly anymore on many of today's computers.

Frankly I don't care if you voluntarily want to limit yourself in such a way. What I think of it is another matter...

I'd use the original executable exclusively for playing the game if it worked on my system.

I'm not going to type pages and pages commenting on all the bullshit in this thread, I'll just sum it up:

There are ppl who love DOOM and will always play it in its original form. Regardless of its features that may be perceived as limitations and outright downsides ten years after.

Thank you for speaking up myk and Opulent (who expressed the same view in an earlier thread).

Never_Again said:

There are ppl who love DOOM and will always play it in its original form. Regardless of its features that may be perceived as limitations and outright downsides ten years after.

If people truly loved Doom their heart would grow with Doom and explore new territories together.

Arioch said:

If people truly loved Doom their heart would grow with Doom and explore new territories together.

Yeah, but they should only settle where the territory's good.

Never_Again said:

Regardless of its features that may be perceived as limitations and outright downsides ten years after.

That's crap. Nobody perceives a feature as a limitation. I think it's the other way around with you guys. Doom2.exe doesn't have a single feature that isn't supported by all source ports. But it has a lot of bugs and limitations which have been fixed by source ports. If you prefer buggy gameplay that's certainly not my problem. Be happy with your warped perspective - even if it's exactly the same shit you'll hear from every other fundamentalist of any kind or progress-phobic people and there's already way too much of them.
I said it before and I'll say it again: If Doom2.exe was the only way to play Doom today the game would be DEAD! No chance of improvement means stagnation and stagnation inevitably leads to obsoleteness.

Arioch said:

If people truly loved Doom their heart would grow with Doom and explore new territories together.

I couldn't agree more with that statement... ;-)

Fredrik said:

Yeah, but they should only settle where the territory's good.

The territory of modern source ports is not only good, it's excellent. :-D

BTW, it's strange hearing stuff like this from a guy who built some of the most limit-blowing maps of all time (which naturally require a modern source port...)

Myk, you're entitled to your own opinion so I'll respect that.

However,

myk said:

The difference starts from the controls,... then also all the lifted limits...

Just for clarification, what limits are you referring to? If you mean the total number of 2-sided linedefs in view at once and the visplane limits, you do realize that Id themselves raised those limits from what they were in the earlier versions (2-sided linedefs definately, not sure about visplanes)?

At any rate, I'll respect your opinion, but my opinion stands as it is.

I won't comment any further on this subject.

1024x768, 13". Thats the same size and highest resolution both of my working monitors will go up to.

Graf Zahl said:

The territory of modern source ports is not only good, it's excellent. :-D

BTW, it's strange hearing stuff like this from a guy who built some of the most limit-blowing maps of all time (which naturally require a modern source port...)

I never said limit removal was a bad thing.

Fredrik said:

I never said limit removal was a bad thing.

But you said:

I'd use the original executable exclusively for playing the game if it worked on my system.

I don't get this argument - people are free to play using whatever executable they want, why would their choice bother anyone else?

It's funny how Kojak_man's reply almost looks like he's afraid that Myk might come and take away his precious hires and whatnot, if he can't be convinced of the greatness of source ports. =P

As long as there is a single piece of hardware that supports DOS, I will own such a piece, and will be able to play the original DOOM.EXE.

As long as I'm able to play the original DOOM.EXE, I will play the original DOOM.EXE.

So, yes, 320x200.

Well, I also play BOOM.EXE. Because other than demo compatibility, it's still identical to DOOM. The limits removed allow bigger levels which don't crash, but don't spoil gameplay in any single way. Again, with the the exception of some bugs which people have been using for speed records and strange stuff and such. But, again, that's demo compatibility. I don't value it so much. I'm not into DOOM for demos. Hell, I even modified my original 1.9 EXEs to make them more reasonable.

I'm into DOOM, because it feels fun. And to me, the original feels fun more than everything. I was so excited when ports kicked in... Legacy, BOOM, ZDOOM, JDOOM... I was all like "wow, now it's gonna be mega-kewl!" But soon I realized that I don't care about the improvements. I just don't. They didn't make DOOM better to me, not in a single way.

Many people play ports, because they have Win2K/XP and just can't be bothered setting up the original to work in this environment. Others play it because they like the new features and yet others simply like the high resolutions.

Now, I personally feel that high resolutions add nothing to DOOM. I guess I'm one of the lucky people who have a built-in renderer in their eyes, so they don't get the unpleasant feeling of looking at crap when playing low resolutions.

I like many old games and many new games, and when I like a game, it's usually because of the quality of the gameplay. I can enjoy outstanding graphics, but my experience doesn't rely heavily on them.

Oh, and Graf - your claim that DOOM would be dead if not for the source ports is ridiculous.

dr_st said:

Oh, and Graf - your claim that DOOM would be dead if not for the source ports is ridiculous.

There would be no community except a very small number of extreme hardcore fans. But that wouldn't be enough to keep the game alive. Many of the younger players today wouldn't bother to set up a DOS environment to play a 10 year old game with crappy resolution. There's absolutely nothing in there that could draw anybody toward Doom this day if it was still limited to the old DOS Exe. How much fun is it for somebody who grew up with Quake2 style graphics and better to play a game without sound (under WinXP) and in a resolution that doesn't utilize the available resources even remotely?

And of course there are those who knew Doom from the start who don't care about minimalism:
I for example wouldn't bother playing it anymore if I was restricted to blur-o-vision with heavily visible line structure on the screen (courtesy of a large monitor) combined with a refresh rate that makes my eyes ache (I normally run my monitor at 85-100 Hz so even the 70 of DOS's 320x200 mode can be rather unpleasant.)
I first played the game in 1993 and at that time it was the most impressive experience I ever had.
Around 1996 I completely lost interest in it as new games with much less eye-straining visuals were released. This all changed only after I found the first high res source ports in mid-1998. And don't think that this is isolated. There are probably lots of people here who had similar experiences.

Now, I personally feel that high resolutions add nothing to DOOM. I guess I'm one of the lucky people who have a built-in renderer in their eyes, so they don't get the unpleasant feeling of looking at crap when playing low resolutions.

Well, I don't and for me 320x200 is looking at crap!

Graf Zahl said:

There would be no community except a very small number of extreme hardcore fans. But that wouldn't be enough to keep the game alive.

Most of the community are people who were with DOOM from the start. They are normal people and they like improvements, but most of them would not have abandoned the game even if the source had never been released.

Graf Zahl said:

Many of the younger players today wouldn't bother to set up a DOS environment to play a 10 year old game with crappy resolution.

Most of the younger players don't play DOOM even as it is, with all the ports available. They either don't know of it or don't care. And how many newbies come here without even knowing that ports exist? It's not the ports that draw the people, it's the game.

Graf Zahl said:

There's absolutely nothing in there that could draw anybody toward Doom this day if it was still limited to the old DOS Exe. How much fun is it for somebody who grew up with Quake2 style graphics and better to play a game without sound (under WinXP) and in a resolution that doesn't utilize the available resources even remotely?

If DOOM's gameplay is what you like, then you like it regardless of the graphics, because they never been a major factor. But if a person only plays DOOM because it now looks kewler, then why even bother? Play Serious Sam or Halo instead. No port will ever allow DOOM to keep up with technology. Popularity which is based on technological qualities will die much sooner than popularity based on gameplay.

Graf Zahl said:

I for example wouldn't bother playing it anymore if I was restricted to blur-o-vision with heavily visible line structure on the screen (courtesy of a large monitor) combined with a refresh rate that makes my eyes ache (I normally run my monitor at 85-100 Hz so even the 70 of DOS's 320x200 mode can be rather unpleasant.)
I first played the game in 1993 and at that time it was the most impressive experience I ever had.
Around 1996 I completely lost interest in it as new games with much less eye-straining visuals were released. This all changed only after I found the first high res source ports in mid-1998. And don't think that this is isolated. There are probably lots of people here who had similar experiences.

From my experience, most people prefer gameplay over graphics. That's why I don't think the community would have died without high resolutions.

I wouldnt be here if it wasnt for the ports. I'm here for the intresting developments, and theres only so much that could have been done with the vanilla engine before it got tiresome - in fact, I got bored of it as soon as I saw what BUILD, Quake, Unreal etc could do.

Would we be looking forward to ACTION Doom if we were all still playing vanilla?

I have to admit though, I was never part of the original Doom community, I didnt even know what the internet was when doom came out. I think I only found cdrom.com around 1996.

So yeah, theres my cynical, decadent viewpoint.

Graf Zahl said:

But you said

Yes, I'd use doom.exe/doom2.exe exclusively for playing Doom and Doom 2.

dr_st said:

Most of the community are people who were with DOOM from the start. They are normal people and they like improvements, but most of them would not have abandoned the game even if the source had never been released.

From the average age I doubt that very much. A large part of today's community is far too young to have been with Doom for 10 years.

dr_st said:

Most of the younger players don't play DOOM even as it is, with all the ports available. They either don't know of it or don't care. And how many newbies come here without even knowing that ports exist? It's not the ports that draw the people, it's the game.

The younger players that don't come here don't count because they are not 'the community'. They probably play the game 1 or 2 times using Doom95 (don't even think that any of those can run a DOS program anymore!) or if they get hooked they come here and most of the time the first advice is 'Get a source port' because Doom95 is far too buggy.

dr_st said:

If DOOM's gameplay is what you like, then you like it regardless of the graphics, because they never been a major factor. But if a person only plays DOOM because it now looks kewler, then why even bother? Play Serious Sam or Halo instead. No port will ever allow DOOM to keep up with technology. Popularity which is based on technological qualities will die much sooner than popularity based on gameplay.

I can like the gameplay as much as I do but if the graphic quality gets on my nerves it doesn't help. On my current monitor I wouldn't even consider 640x480 an acceptable playable resolution. Below 800x600 modern >17'' monitors don't perform well.

dr_st said:

From my experience, most people prefer gameplay over graphics. That's why I don't think the community would have died without high resolutions.

Of course I prefer gameplay over graphics. That's why I use ZDoom and not JDoom as my primary Doom platform.

I use ZDoom over JDoom, partially because I think ZDoom looks better.

Graf Zahl said:

That's crap. Nobody perceives a feature as a limitation. I think it's the other way around with you guys. Doom2.exe doesn't have a single feature that isn't supported by all source ports

Sure. Try Return To Phobos E1M2, or Doomsday Of UAC with ZDoom (or any other source port). Good luck.
You've been playing with ZDoom so long, you forgot what DOOM is like.

The younger players that don't come here don't count because they are not 'the community'.

That is exactly what is wrong with that "community". Too many kidz found they suck at Counter Strike or UT, so they pick on DOOM instead.

Heh, all this squabbling has little or nothing to do with resolution :P

Graf Zahl said:

That's crap. Nobody perceives a feature as a limitation. I think it's the other way around with you guys. Doom2.exe doesn't have a single feature that isn't supported by all source ports.

Jdoom doesn't have deh support. Edge is buggier than Doom. No other port can give the same nostalgia.

<arioch> I generally play in a resolution that's a multiple of 320x200
<the_fish> 1024x800 ??

ravage said:

Jdoom doesn't have deh support. Edge is buggier than Doom. No other port can give the same nostalgia.

Not even PrBoom in full compatibility mode?