"H-Zone" and "Magic & Mayhem for Heretic"

I don't have either of them at the moment, but as I recall Magic & Mayhem was just a heap of shitty conversions of 1994 Doom levels. H-Zone had some stuff that was somewhat worthwhile though as I recall--I'm pretty sure they had a megawad or at least episode that was unique to the compilation--I don't recall that it was great but it was at least a notch above M&M.

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Magic & Mayhem's not worth worrying about - some 1500 converted maps. H!Zone has 12 new episodes (all replace episode 3) plus a few new flats, sprites and textures. There's also a couple of hundred other levels, most of which are probably in the archive. I could let you know later if there's any lost treaures on the disk, not a single file has it's original datestamp so I've been in no rush to check them.

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I have H!Zone, and there are indeed 12 original episodes made especially for it, but even back in the late 90's, I only thought maybe 2 or 3 had some worthwhile maps in them, so I'm sure I'd think even less of them now. A few had a nice winter theme though.

The other WADs are a mix of Heretic originals and converted Doom maps. As with D!Zone (or most of the other WAD archive packages), the majority are throwaways that I didn't bother playing (I browsed the directory with a map editor in preview mode rather than load each one into the game), but there are a few good maps and mini-episodes, which are probably all already available in the /idgames archive anyway.

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I hear that Wizard Works converted those same 12 episodes to Duke3D for their Duke3D equivalent add-on. Is that true?

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How does WizardWorks stay in business (if they still are) from profiting off authors' work and against Id Software's wishes?

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Yeah they are doom maps converted rather poorly to use Heretic textures weapons and monsters. I didn't recognize it at first, but I noticed several of the PWADS had modified doom resources in them that weren't used in the wads. I remember recognizing it after playing uac_dead.

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Mr. Chris said:

How does WizardWorks stay in business (if they still are) from profiting off authors' work and against Id Software's wishes?

WizardWorks actually went out of business in 1997, once it was determined that unofficial expansions to commercial games could not be legally sold. I can't remember what instigated this - likely the confusion over Aftershock for Quake.

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GreyGhost said:

12 new episodes (all replace episode 3) plus a few new flats, sprites and textures.


This is the stuff I'm most interested in. Can anyone tell me what the new episodes and new art are like?

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The new art is interesting but it's not revolutionary or anything like that. :P It's a nice addition. From what I remember, some of it is based on the original Heretic artwork with modifications.

The mapping can be pretty mediocre at times. There are some good levels from what I can remember (I haven't played any of it in about a year). The designs certainly can feel dated at times, but if you walk in with an open mind and pretend you're back in 1998 you can have a lot of fun. :) I'd be willing to upload the wads to the archive but I don't know about the legality of such an action.

EDIT: For clarification, I'm speaking about HZone.

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TheCupboard said:

I'd be willing to upload the wads to the archive but I don't know about the legality of such an action.

EDIT: For clarification, I'm speaking about HZone.

I suspect that, given that they were apparently made specially for that disc, they would fall into the same category as Perdition's Gate, Hell to Pay, and The Lost Levels (or whatever that Jupiter wad was titled), i.e. not okay to upload.

As someone else mentioned, there were some snow environments. I also recall some tavern full of monsters with a maulotaur as a barkeep but that's about the extent of my recollections.

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Stilgar said:

I also recall some tavern full of monsters with a maulotaur as a barkeep but that's about the extent of my recollections.

Sounds like overkill, get it? Not only the tavern is supposed to be a rather small room, but you also get a Maulotaur that trashes you in no time with his ground fire walking over tables that you can't pass because they're too tall. Add to the mix a few dangerous Nitrogolems and Undead Warrior Ghosts and you know it can't make a good map.

And hell. I can't believe TWO AND A HALF worth of megawads have been made for Heretic, but they're all in release hell because we don't know whether it's ethical and legal to freely release them!

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Ethical, almost certainly. Legal, probably not, due to the lack of a proper orphaned works clause in copyright law. Every time they try to add one, uneducated artists and media companies lobby against it.

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WildWeasel said:

WizardWorks actually went out of business in 1997

nah, they were still around during the horrible Extreme Paintbrawl, NAM and WW2GI games

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Looking at some of the textfiles in the HZone folders, it looks like most (all?) of the single level wads were collected off of the internet and just slapped onto a CD. It doesn't seem like uploading those would be illegal but all of the complete episodes have no textfiles and might have been made specifically for the HZone retail release, so they are probably off limits.

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I would just upload it anonymously somewhere, it sounds quite interesting, I doubt anyone is going to care anyway

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leileilol said:

nah, they were still around during the horrible Extreme Paintbrawl, NAM and WW2GI games

Wikipedia says:
WizardWorks Software was a video game developer and publisher located in Minneapolis, MN. Focused on casual consumer games sold through mass-merchants like Target and Wal-Mart, WizardWorks was best known for publishing the Deer Hunter series of video games developed by Sunstorm Interactive but also made expansion packs for games like Doom and Duke Nukem 3D and developed/published other titles.

In 1996, WizardWorks was acquired by GT Interactive Software, and was eventually combined with other GT Interactive holdings in Minneapolis to form GT Interactive’s Value Products Division. WizardWorks continued as label through a subsequent corporate acquisition by Infogrames which later became Atari.

In 2004, Atari closed the Minneapolis office, folding outstanding projects into the Beverly, MA office.
[/B]

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Well, I'm just going by what I've observed Doomworld policy to be, I've repeatedly seen removals/punishments given out over postings of the Doom add-ons I mentioned, so I figured these would be the same sort of deal.

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If there's no clause in the textfile permitting distribution and no way of contacting the author - they're best left alone. Damn shame.

BTW - Atari are still using the WizardWorks name to flog games - including yet another Deer Hunter title.

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Case 1: A company crams a disk full of levels and sells it, defying the copyrights of the individual level designers and of the original game company.
Verdict: All's fair in love and capitalism.

Case 2: An individual uploads some levels that are essentially orphaned works.
Verdict: BAN HIM! Justice must be served.

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Stilgar said:

Well, I'm just going by what I've observed Doomworld policy to be, I've repeatedly seen removals/punishments given out over postings of the Doom add-ons I mentioned, so I figured these would be the same sort of deal.

GreyGhost said:

If there's no clause in the textfile permitting distribution and no way of contacting the author - they're best left alone. Damn shame.

BTW - Atari are still using the WizardWorks name to flog games - including yet another Deer Hunter title.


I think in the case of shovelware, there's really no problem. We've had some threads specifically about it (this is the last one).

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Haven't seen this thread for a while.

While the exclusive content in H!Zone might raise a couple of eyebrows, you could probably get away with uploading both CDs to the Internet Archive as shovelware. OTOH, posting links to that same exclusive content could result in the banhammer being swung.

It's a strange world we live in.

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GreyGhost said:

Haven't seen this thread for a while.

While the exclusive content in H!Zone might raise a couple of eyebrows, you could probably get away with uploading both CDs to the Internet Archive as shovelware. OTOH, posting links to that same exclusive content could result in the banhammer being swung.

It's a strange world we live in.


I think it would be a good idea to have some sort of "official Doomworld policy" so we can have an idea of what can/can't be uploaded. Shovelware CDs seem to be in a "gray area" that some people (including me) can't understand completely. Maybe something added to the FAQ.

It's somewhat interesting that you can upload shovelware CDs with copyrighted content, but you are forbidden to link to the copyrighted content in such CDs (as Creaphis pointed out). One example I can think of is Demon Gate Mega-collection, which includes both Odessa 1 and Odessa 13. Practically every file in that CD is freely distributable, but not those two wads (now that Bob Evans has returned, this is no longer an issue, but I think you get what I'm saying).

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The "official Doomworld policy" on copyrighted material is straightforward enough. . .

"This forum has a strict policy against copyright infringement. Do not link to or request full or leaked versions of games or content, magazine scans, ROMs, commercial software, or copyrighted media (such as music or movies)."

. . .and appropriate for commercial content. It's probably overkill for freely distributable stuff like PWADs, but a line had to drawn somewhere.

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Which is also going to eventually mean that Hell to Pay and Perditions Gate and other such things will be forever lost to time.

Backwards rules are backwards.

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GreyGhost said:

The "official Doomworld policy" on copyrighted material is straightforward enough. . .

"This forum has a strict policy against copyright infringement. Do not link to or request full or leaked versions of games or content, magazine scans, ROMs, commercial software, or copyrighted media (such as music or movies)."

. . .and appropriate for commercial content. It's probably overkill for freely distributable stuff like PWADs, but a line had to drawn somewhere.


OK, but my question hasn't been answered yet (or maybe I'm an idiot, which is probably the case). Why we can upload shovelware without consequences, but we can't upload copyrighted/non-distributable material from those shovelware CDs? I think it's like saying I can upload pornography with some coprophilia content, but I'm not allowed to upload coprophilia itself. I can't see the logic behind this.

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Zed said:

Why we can upload shovelware without consequences, but we can't upload copyrighted/non-distributable material from those shovelware CDs?

True shovelware is just a collection of freely distributable material. That material is clearly OK to distribute.

If something posing as shovelware actually violates copyright, or contains proprietary material, then that violating or proprietary material shouldn't be distributed.

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