I found a Doom engine for game maker!

1st of all, I'm GreenVengeance. I think Doom's pretty cool, and reminds me of other classic shooter games like Marathon Durandal and stuff.

Anyway, I use the program, Game Maker. On it's site, yoyogames.com, I found a tutorial on how to make 3d Shooters. It requires Pro Edition BTW. So I took a look at the completed example, and played it. While I did it, I said to myself, "This kinda looks familiar." And then all of a sudden, I said, "OF COURSE! IT'S DOOM!" For those of you interested in making your own Doom levels without modding the actual thing, click this link I'm about to provide you.

HAPPY GAMING!

P.S. It doesn't have EVERYTHING the real Doom has, but then again, it's close enough!

http://www.sandbox.yoyogames.com/make/tutorials
(AT THE BOTTOM!)

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The engine listed there has more in common with Wolfenstein 3D than Doom. Also Gamemaker can bite my ass.

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There's many utilities available to us for free that allow us to create modifications for the real deal, so I don't see much reason to use this gamemaker thing.

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GreenVengeance said:

P.S. It doesn't have EVERYTHING the real Doom has, but then again, it's close enough!


Wait what? It's 'close enough' to game that already very extendable and modable? This just seems useless since engines like zdoom are already 100x more powerful and even an idiot can get started modding it. Look at Doom Warzone.

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I do rather like the textures/flats in that final screen down there. Don't suppose anyone has any idea what they are from?

If you are interested in modding/mapping for Doom/Doom2/Heretic/Hexen/Strife or anything else that uses the Doom engine, then check out Slade 3 and Doombuilder 2. Very powerful and intuitive programs with great support that run effortlessly on modern Windows setups.

And Green Vengeance. Happy old school gaming, and Dooming in particular. Cheers.

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GreenVengeance said:

For those of you interested in making your own Doom levels without modding the actual thing

To be frank, I think this category of people around here is probably extremely slim, if not entirely inexistent.

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This make me remember the days i was looking for a way to make doom levels. but i never know about a Map editor like Doom Builder so i made a game of Doom in The Games Factory, i made it like the second level of Super C perspective (sorry i dont know how its called that genre and i still keepp the installer for it) Until i find Doom builder to make my own doom levels.

not to be mean but i really have doubt that someone going to use the engine unless they want to make a FPS- Wolfestein Style without use an Iwad. with lot of programs for Doom Editing and the source ports of these days that give us a lot of new features for doom, i really doubt it.

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Such engines are a dime a dozen, and have come and went through the years. The problem is that the idea behind them is flawed: it's not enough to slap a few textures around and "Doom" in the title to make it anywhere close to the real deal, at least not for such a hardcore gaming community which is very quick to pass harsh judgment.

How hardcore? We're talking about splitting hair at the slightest hint of "unorthodox" weapon or monster behavior, or if even one pixel in some texture is off. Even source ports based on the actual source code can have a hard time being considered passable, let alone purely visual (half) recreations.

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You shouldn't have to be concerned about modding the actual thing because, well...You never actually do mod the actual thing unless you're misinformed and try to modify the iwad of the game itself. You can find lots of tutorials for Doom mapping all over youtube, the doom wiki, etc.

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GameMaker is the modern day BASIC. It takes almost no effort to learn and has an advantage that you can quickly churn out silly little programs, but it teaches bad programming models and makes it rather difficult for its users to move onto other languages; they're stuck in a way of thinking about programming that pretty much needs to be entirely dismissed in order to move onto bigger and more well-supported languages.

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I recall finding a Doom recreation attempt for gamemaker 8 years ago, don't know if that is the same one though.

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The only 3d game made with Gamemaker I've seen that was any good was 8bit Killer.
But yeah, if you want to make a "Doom game", use Doom!

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A lot of people here are very hard on Game Maker. I see it as a program that lets people exercise their creative game making muscles.

You won't get teh best games evar out of it and other people might wonder why you do it but people in the Game Maker community seem to have a lot of fun putting things together and then enjoying the results. Kind of like another community I could mention - no?

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Such "make your own game easily, without programming" kits have been around since forever, even on 8-bit platforms, and they all inevitably shared the same kinds of limitations: as you get more creative or more exigent, you can't avoid writing "real code" one way or the other. When doing so crosses the complexity boundary of using a full-fledged API/library, perhaps it's time to move on to the real deal.

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Reading this thread it's hard not to draw parallels with the way many doctors react to the Internet. Yes, there are limitations to what you can do without the proper skillset, but why be so adamant against the whole thing? Just seems like elite castes worried about unwashed masses stepping on their turf.

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...more like the SA castes worrying about more shitty stuff to send to the ROM pit (then again, they LOVE and NEED something to pick on...so it's really a love-hate relationship).

Just some food for thought: Ethnic Cleansing, ZOG Nightmare and Thundra were all made with a Game Maker-like engine. That should speak about the quality of games obtainable with such engines, and the kinds of people that release stuff made with them.

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And now, arcane acronyms to confuse the uninitiated. :)

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Let's help them then: SA goons. How much pain and revelation in just two words ;-)

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I've wondered if the tutorials the OP linked to were actually the OP's.

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How about the opposite? I bet Maes really wants to be able to script Arkanoid, Boulder Dash, etc. in his Mocha Doom port. ;)

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Game Maker can be capable of cool things. Way I see it, it makes it easier to make bad and good stuff. Spelunky, for instance, is a really well-polished platformer that was done entirely with Game Maker.

'Course, I've never used it myself, so I'm not sure how many "bad habits" it would introduce. Is it worse than using any other game framework (something like Unity, for instance) with a standard language?

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Xaser said:
Is it worse than using any other game framework (something like Unity, for instance) with a standard language? [/B]


Yes and no. Game Maker has its own language (GML I think) that can be used to write scripts that can be attached to objects in a similar way to Unity. However, a lot of functionality within game maker doesn't need these scripts, and instead games rely on drag-and-drop functions to give functionality to objects. It's not the scripting but these drag-and-drop functions can lead to some nasty habits and mindsets when someone tries actual programming.

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Indeed; and "actual programming" is likely what many of Game Maker developers are going to want to strive for once they realize they have grander visions than it can easily provide. I don't know how complete GML is, it wouldn't surprise me if it's possible to have big complicated games, or even writing compilers/operating systems with it, but the same applies to BASIC, and nobody really wants to do that... well, almost nobody. Being possible to do something with it is very different from it being practical to do it, though.

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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:

I do rather like the textures/flats in that final screen down there. Don't suppose anyone has any idea what they are from?

Get 'em here.

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Why would I use Game Maker if I have Doom Builder 2? Screw that, I'm staying with DB2!

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Maes said:

Just some food for thought: Ethnic Cleansing, ZOG Nightmare and Thundra were all made with a Game Maker-like engine. That should speak about the quality of games obtainable with such engines, and the kinds of people that release stuff made with them.


Ethnic Cleansing used the Genesis3D engine (radically different to Game Maker in both quality and approach) which was complete and utter garbage, and I really doubt it's gotten that much better, assuming it is still being developed, but ultimately it's amateurish and mediocre game designers what give these tools a bad name.

If I wanted to get something done the hard way, I'd much rather go with Evaldraw.

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Maes said:

Just some food for thought: Ethnic Cleansing, ZOG Nightmare and Thundra were all made with a Game Maker-like engine. That should speak about the quality of games obtainable with such engines, and the kinds of people that release stuff made with them.

This argument makes no sense. People make terrible Doom maps all the time, does that speak about the quality of maps obtainable with the Doom engine?

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Megalyth said:

This argument makes no sense. People make terrible Doom maps all the time, does that speak about the quality of maps obtainable with the Doom engine?


The closest Doom equivalent to a "game maker" tool would be Slige and abusing copy & paste from prefabs. A 'building blocks" approach, if you wish.

Isn't it pretty much a general consensus that a badly designed map (but made entirely BY HAND) is preferable to a copy & paste or Slige affair?

The point is that such "for dummies" tools allow people who'd have no business making games/maps/music/whatever to shit out a "production" almost as easily as they'd drop a big steamin' one, magically taking all the effort of learning about 3D graphics, sound libraries, data structures etc. away from them.

On paper, this sounds like a Good Thing, as it would allow non-technical people which however MIGHT have a good game design (or another sector's) idea, to express themselves somehow, something which under normal circumstances would be impossible.

But, alas, that's the same concept behind crud such as Fruity Loops or Site Build It!, and we know how "well" these usually turn out... the result is usually spamming the internet with mediocre and same-y crap, rather than helping diamonds-in-the-rough move their first steps in an industry. Someone who's serious about learning a craft or a trade is always better off learning to use "real" tools.

If you want e.g. a child to develop its drawing skills, you're better off giving it a set of free-hand drawing utensils, not pre-made rubber stamps, stickers and coloring books.

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