TNT or Plutonia: What was better?

TheUltimateDoomer666 said:

And yeah, I don't know what was up with the wacked-out ending to the Soldier of Chaos tune.


I mean..although that does bother me, It bothers me more to think that TeamTNT though it was acceptable...

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TNT.. though it's not a fair comparison as I've mostly just played the PSX version of both. I think there's only 5 or so levels from Plutonia. On the plus side, most of the shitty levels from TNT aren't included.

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david-arquette said:

most of the shitty levels from TNT aren't included.

Human BBQ, Ballistyx. Can't say I agree with you there :S

EDIT: Off-topic, I just hit 200 :3

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Preferred TNT more back in the day. Some memorable levels and it felt to me like a proper sequel to Doom 2, in terms of level design and difficulty. Plutonia was more frustrating for me, but ultimately very enjoyable to beat, sort of a sequel to TNT then.

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TNT had the best of levels, TNT had the worst of levels. Plutonia was more consistent but I probably prefer TNT because of the gems

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This is a tough decision for me. The Plutonia Experiment had great and challenging maps while TNT: Evilution had new music and used patches to make big skies. They both used vanilla tricks that might have changed the way that Doom maps were made. Personally I like them both and I had a great time playing them.

Sodaholic said:

MAP02's music in TNT was fucking abysmal. It was just screeching guitars and droning guitars going on these really long notes.

Are you kidding? That was an awesome song!

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My old computer had a bad sound card, where all you could hear in the beginning was like 20 seconds of 1 note in map02

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Eris Falling said:

My old computer had a bad sound card, where all you could hear in the beginning was like 20 seconds of 1 note in map02

Yeah depending on your sound card the song will sound either good or bad. Maybe that's why Soda hates the song.

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Same, I didn't know about the underlying bass of the track until I played the maps for which the music was in on my laptop.

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Plutonia mainly because it was far more challenging than Evilution and the maps were far more pleasing in terms of layout and architecture. Evilution had some good ideas though, however, quite a few of the maps I found lacked quality and looked quite dull.

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Foodles said:

TNT had the best of levels, TNT had the worst of levels. Plutonia was more consistent but I probably prefer TNT because of the gems



i think that's it. plutonia was made by 2 people, tnt by several. hence, plutonia has all maps built with one theme in mind - to the point some look too similar, while tnt, with its highs and lows, is more varied.

gameplay wise, i prefer plutonia for being more challenging, while tnt has huge spaces and lots of lesser enemies. however, the chaingunner and revenant diet gets annoying in places.

it's a pity that plutonia doesn't have its own music. tnt has some exceptional midis (wormhole, pharaoh, open season)

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TNT.

Like everyone else is saying, TNT has both the best (09, 13, 31...) and worst (21, 22, 25...) levels, but I think the amount of bad levels it has is usually exaggerated. Plutonia is much more consistent, but I actually think that its consistency is its biggest flaw; after a while the maps get pretty repetitive and the style grows stale. While the theme is pretty consistent, TNTs levels vary so much in style that each map feels fresh and unique.

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NiTROACTiVE said:

Yeah depending on your sound card the song will sound either good or bad. Maybe that's why Soda hates the song.

I'm probably the minority here, but in the context of TNT Map02, I actually prefer the tamed version of the piece. The fact that I heard it that way first probably has something to do with it. Either way, the inconsistency of the track actually gives it a bizarre quality. You can use it for more atmospheric slogs (as I originally viewed Human BBQ) or blast-em-all styled maps like Scythe Map24.

The louder version can be grating at times to me, though.

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I like TNT because it had original music, a variety of styles and architecture, and a steady difficulty progression, which is just right. Not too difficult, but still some fiendish parts here and there, while still fun at the same time.

I like Plutonia because the maps are fast-paced, has a theme, not as lengthy as some of the later maps in TNT, and provides extreme challenge that ain't for the faint-hearted.

Much as I think Plutonia is excellent, I prefer TNT since it's a good megawad to start when playing Final Doom.

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Sodaholic said:

MAP02's music in TNT was fucking abysmal. It was just screeching guitars and droning guitars going on these really long notes.

You must have played it with Doom95.

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I know that, partway through Evilution (it's not called TNT now, is it? :P) way back when, I switched sound cards. Got me an AWE64 and when I heard MAP02's music again on MAP15, that bass was so... frighteningly harsh, it gave me shivers. Add to that the tunes for Deepest Reaches and Wormhole, and I've got a few favourites within the Evilution soundtrack, for sure.

Although I'm playing through both right now. Having much more fun with Plutonia, my initial post still stands. I'd even go as far as saying that Plutonia may well be one of the most finely-balanced commercial FPS expansions around. Tough, it may be. But it is superbly-paced.

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ComicMischief said:

I know that, partway through Evilution (it's not called TNT now, is it? :P)

The full title is TNT: Evilution; however the IWAD is just TNT.WAD.

Similarly, the other half of Final Doom is The Plutonia Experiment, but the IWAD is just PLUTONIA.

You now know why people call them just TNT and Plutonia.

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Yeah, I was being a little facetious. I thought the little colon-eyed fellow with the P-mouth explained on my behalf. Maybe he was lying down on the job again.

(Serious) I don't know why, it always bothered me for it to be referred to as 'TNT'. I mean, surely Icarus is also 'TNT' (I know, I know, it's 'icarus.wad')? Not that it matters much, but hey.

BRB, making a custom Plutonia TITLEPIC; 'Super Casali Bros.' -- how close are the Doom and the NES palettes again? ;)

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Ah, but that's Icarus: Alien Vanguard. TNT isn't part of the title. :p

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Yeah, you got me there. I do admit, I have no idea why it bothers me. It shouldn't, it's completely irrational.

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i preferred TNT, but what nearly tipped the scales was map01 of TNT. 3 cybies, das some bull.

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schmerr said:

i preferred TNT, but what nearly tipped the scales was map01 of TNT. 3 cybies, das some bull.

3 cybies on TNT level 1..? are you sure you aren't thinking of some other WAD?

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yeah right near the exit door, you have to navigate thru them to open the door. TnT Evilouion

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No. If I'm right, the only Doom IWAD levels to feature 3+ cyberdemons were Cyberden and Go 2 It, both in Plutonia.
There were (on UV) 6 cybers in TNT:
1 in Last Call, 1 in Carribean, 1 in Pharaoh, 1 in Nukage Processing (so 3 cybies is already wrong), 1 in Administration Centre and one somewhere else.

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There's one in MAP01 in multiplayer mode, in the courtyard with the switch that opens the blue key alcove. My guess is schmerr was playing coop with respawning monsters.

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Weird, i just started it up in zdoom and got to that point (im on uv btw) and there were 3 cybies in the courtyard. So nobody else has this happen??

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Eris Falling said:

There were (on UV) 6 cybers in TNT:
1 in Last Call, 1 in Carribean, 1 in Pharaoh, 1 in Nukage Processing (so 3 cybies is already wrong), 1 in Administration Centre and one somewhere else.

The sixth one is in Mill.

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schmerr said:

Weird, i just started it up in zdoom and got to that point (im on uv btw) and there were 3 cybies in the courtyard. So nobody else has this happen??

I'm thinking you might have a modified tnt.wad. I suggest reinstalling it.

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Thanks guys for pointing me in the right direction. So all this time ive been playing a modded TNT... Guess im gonna be known in doomworld as an idiot now huh

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