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wierd bug in plutonia map02.

Could be an invisible hole caused by a Nodebuilder error. I tried to find in with IDCLIP (in noclip mode it is easier to fall into small holes I think) but I couldn't.

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joe-ilya said:

Same thing happened to "bigmacdavis1" on youtube.

Are you also using ZDoom? I've noticed it occasionally places monsters under floors, which is probably the work of its internal nodebuilder.

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Internal nodebuilder? You mean ZDoom always rebuilds nodes to its liking? Will it ruin my nifty sidedef compression tricks in my maps? (faster scrolling, etc)

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darkreaver said:

ZDoom ruins everything. Deal with it!

Ah, hahahahahaha. </SotNDeathLaugh>

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Memfis said:

Internal nodebuilder? You mean ZDoom always rebuilds nodes to its liking? Will it ruin my nifty sidedef compression tricks in my maps? (faster scrolling, etc)



Yes, it will, but that's not the node builder. ZDoom decompresses sidedefs when the map is loaded because some of its features require sidedefs being assigned to one unique linedef (Decals, for example.)

The internal node builder is only invoked if the engine finds the map's original nodes faulty, btw.

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I tried to fall in but there wasn't a hole.
I assume that Zdoom needs an update.
And how is there "under floor"? There isn't such a thing in doom.

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joe-ilya said:

And how is there "under floor"? There isn't such a thing in doom.

Try thinking of it as a variant on having monsters "lost in the void", with the engine screwing up with their Z axis co-ordinates and placing them under the floor. Haven't encountered the bug for a while but it appears to be sector-based, with all monsters in the affected sector disappearing under the floorboards and being confined to that sector. The bug (in my experience) also seems to select sectors at random, so if yours keeps appearing in the same spot that could help pin it down.

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darkreaver said:

ZDoom ruins everything. Deal with it!


Can't say so myself, really.

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The 'hole' thing is actually a bug in the old BSP node builder.
It tends to create some broken structures that produce holes among straight lines.

Now, the PointOnSide check in Doom is also broken and for straight horizontal and vertical lines doesn't work correctly.

The second bug masks the effect of the first one and here's where the problem comes in: ZDoom fixes PointOnSide to always return 'in front' for any point directly on a line.

This can cause problems if the player starts or gets teleported to some problem spot.

If you force a node build in ZDoom the bug should go away. If this is an already released level please report as a bug with a link to the file so a compatibility option can be added.

And sorry to rant again, if 'ZDoom breaks anything', please report it instead of bitching about it. Most of these things can be fixed but the devs need to know about them. We very much prefer to get a few false bug reports than to miss a genuine one.

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Casting my mind back, I think I first encountered this bug (or a relative) when playing Ed's Sin City 3 and blamed it on the node builder. Given that I've yet to encounter this problem twice in the same place, what console commands would you suggest that could output useful info for the developers?

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