Your rationalization of the Icon of Sin

How do you view the Icon of Sin?

I imagine that he is more of a mechanical being than an organic one, like how people create altars, I think the IOS is basically a demonic temple the demons made. We use computers to help us around, and to lead us in essence. Maybe the IOS works the same?

The intermission screen after you defeat the IOS says that his death destroyed almost all of Hell in the process. How do you imagine this happened?

I always thought of the IOS being what you see- a floating skull. I thought it was sort of "rooted" into hell itself. I imagine its tentacles buried under the ground of hell, but those are more of supply chains that were built for the IOS

As you know, the IOS can launch out cubes that turn into demons. How do you think this happens?

This may sound a little silly, but I always thought it worked like one of those sponge toys. Like the whole demon was just compacted into that little capsule, and then exploded out by the impact.

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You kind of have to wonder what the Icon is doing with his head in some random wall: was he playing Peekaboo or something?

EDIT: Spelling

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I view the iOS as a great smartphone operating system

To be serious, it's kind of like the heart of hell to me, it can spawn demons and it was rooted into hell in a way that caused the destruction of hell. It's kind of like the Alien Queen from Aliens.

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Its a ridiculously huge demon that has sacrficed its mobility to fuse itself with tech absorbed from Earth and the Mars moonbases

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Perhaps it was under construction and Doom Guy got to it and destroyed it before it even had the chance to be completed, or maybe it was simply just stuck and so had to have it's brain exposed so it could at least perform some of it's demonic magic while it's hands were unavailable.

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It's a wall!

Professor Sir said:

As you know, the IOS can launch out cubes that turn into demons. How do you think this happens?

Black magic.

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Professor Sir said:

How do you view the Icon of Sin?


Fossilization with residual intent.

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GreyGhost said:

It's a wall!

Well considering how the end story says hows it's limbs are flailing after you defeat it I figured it's trapped there, but of course it's just a wall from the ingame perspective.

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Yeah, behind that wall would be an insanely massive skeletal abomination. Maybe its limbs are inactive and submerged in that liquid floor?

In UD there are depictions of the monster's face without the tech, so its clear it used to be a pure demon. Demons have really REAAALY enjoyed absorbing earthtech.

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It's stuck there, just like Lucifer is stuck at the core of hell in Dante's Divine Comedy. Perhaps to control all its minions, warp the Earth and run its technology, the boss had to graft itself into the earth and thus expose itself. The boss may be a powerful thing from hell, but that doesn't make it omnipotent, so it would have physical restrictions, especially if it used all its power to increase its influence in our world. It pays the price for being very ambitious about conquering our planet. Much like an involved dictator, monopoly owner or crime lord is embedded and stuck with what he controls, and will likely be exposed or cornered in all his political or economic connections if his empire starts to fall.

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I'll be honest, because the icon of sin is such an obvious "wall with a hole in it and a bunch of demon face textures" and (to me) such a complete let-down of a final boss squished into that awful-looking badly textured room, I have difficulty seeing it as any kind of entity to be rationalised at all. I simply can't see it as a creature. The implementation of the boss is so bad (IMO) that there is no immersion or suspension of disbelief for me on map30 of Doom2.

So my rationalisation is a very mundane "id were trying to do something different and big that wasn't just another 'high hit-point, high attack-damage enemy boss actor' but it didn't work".

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Enjay said:

So my rationalisation is a very mundane "id were trying to do something different and big that wasn't just another 'high hit-point, high attack-damage enemy boss actor' but it didn't work".



I couldn't have said it better.
They sure get credits for not trying the worn out concept of a typical boss monster with ludicrous health and even more ludicrous attacks but the whole thing just did not work - and no small part of that is that it heavily depends on the game's movement restrictions.

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All the demons in Doom are psychic projections of Shub-Niggurath, the black goat of the woods with a thousand young. The Icon of Sin is one of her avatars used to spawn these demonic manifestations in an attempt to destroy earth and all of mankind. She wants revenge on the ancient forces of light that exiled her billions of years ago.

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I reckon John Romero was being a douche and thought that the best place for a marine not to find him was a demon's brain, and that's why there's a huge, ripped hole in the Baphomet's forehead. Forever after, John warned tresspassers about how he would kill them but being inside a demon's head garbled the speech up or something and all everyone heard was "oremoR nohJ ,em llik tsum ouy emag eht niw ot".

Don't you think that hell is secretly jealous of the UAC's technology? The Spider Mastermind was formed from pieces of both demons and machinery, and there are loads of techy pipes rammed into the Baphomet's face.

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I always thought of the IOS being what you see- a floating skull. I thought it was sort of "rooted" into hell itself. I imagine its tentacles buried under the ground of hell, but those are more of supply chains that were built for the IOS

That was explained in doom 2 novel if I remember correctly

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I see the Icon as some sort of gigantic master demon (or even Satan himself in some form) that is, as stated above, rooted in hell. His flesh, body, and limbs spread all across Hell's surface. I see him as a living, organic (albeit, cybernetically augmented) being. He is at the center of Hell itself and "holds" it together. When he is destroyed, his body withers and dies, thus the destruction of Hell.

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Professor Sir said:

I imagine that he is more of a mechanical being than an organic one, like how people create altars, I think the IOS is basically a demonic temple the demons made. We use computers to help us around, and to lead us in essence. Maybe the IOS works the same?

Yes, the iPhone is a demonic computing device used by the demons to control us all.

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I always assumed it to be Too Dumb to Live because it does nothing to prevent its fate other than spawn other monsters to kill for it. As such, once it is penetrated, it just keeps spawning monsters, over confident that those said monsters can still fight the marine off, despite the fact that the marine had already plowed through hundreds of the demons before hand. Kind of like a "If it doesn't work at first, try and try again until it works". Perhaps not a bad strategy, but cliche maybe.

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I always had this image of the Icon of Sin lying on his belly with his face soldered into that wall, which sounds really uncomfortable and pointless but is also what the game and endgame description suggest to me are happening. It's also really stupid-looking in my mind, but not much stupid than imagining he's standing with his face stuck in a wall, or that he's just a head wallpapered there, or like some 4-legged thing just standing there awkwardly. It's also kinda dopey to imagine this enormous demon lord thrashing around and somehow destroying all of Hell in the process. I kind of imagine this guy.

I've given up on ways to make the Icon of Sin seem cool. Maybe they were going for some sort of Dante's Inferno thing, but instead of Satan being frozen up to his waist in ice, it's one of his minions doing one of those carnival face cutout things.

EDIT:...although PRIMEVAL's idea is pretty cool. That it's this formless, enormous being that not only covers most of Hell, but IS most of Hell. The fact that it has a distinct head of familiar build kind of melds a little weird with the rest of that, but it's still the best explanation I've heard. I'm sticking with that.

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What I always wanted to know is, who is in charge of Hell? Most assume its the IOS since his death supposedly destroys Hell and he kind of resembles an important demon like Satan or Baphomet. But then where does the Mother Demon come into this. If Doom 64 really takes place after Doom 2 then why is the MD the final boss. Hell is back to normal so, did the MD take over or was it always the main leader of Hell. If the MD really is the 'mother' of the demons then how come IOS spawns enemies through his forehead. Oh wait, its because its a game, right?

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Luke Dacote said:

What I always wanted to know is, who is in charge of Hell?

Doomguy's in charge, killing the boss makes him the new boss.

The Icon of Sin battle sort of reminds me of Monty Python's giant Siamese cat -

(The cat starts to eat the city. Cut to an an animated man in a chair.)

Man in Chair, animated (Eric Idle): "Just then, as it looked for certain that the city was about to be eaten,the earth trembled, and the sun was blotted out from the sky."

Female Voice Over (Terry Jones): "Cor! Uh, Cripes!"

MIC: "Suddenly, swarms of giant bees filled the air..."

FVO: "Ooh!"

MIC: "...and three hundred million armored horsemen covered with coats of a thousand different colors..."

FVO: "Uh!"

MIC: "...appeared at every street corner attacking the monster cat in a scene of such spectacular proportions that it could never in your life be seen in a low budget film like this. (sigh)" <you'll notice my mouth isn't moving either> "But! Just as the monster cat was starting to weaken, the earth split apart with a deafening roar and..."

(Show the cat is falling down a pipe. It lands in a meat grinder with other animals.)

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GreyGhost said:

Doomguy's in charge, killing the boss makes him the new boss.


Literally, with the Doom 64 ending.

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mrthejoshmon said:

I think it is John Romero...
I could be wrong though.

They only used him as an easter egg, he isn't actually supposed to be the last boss.

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Enjay said:

I'll be honest, because the icon of sin is such an obvious "wall with a hole in it and a bunch of demon face textures" and (to me) such a complete let-down of a final boss squished into that awful-looking badly textured room, I have difficulty seeing it as any kind of entity to be rationalised at all. I simply can't see it as a creature. The implementation of the boss is so bad (IMO) that there is no immersion or suspension of disbelief for me on map30 of Doom2.

So my rationalisation is a very mundane "id were trying to do something different and big that wasn't just another 'high hit-point, high attack-damage enemy boss actor' but it didn't work".


Are you trying to say "mural"? ;-)

I though the finale worked rather - back in 1994 anyway... Not as reappliable as the other bosses, but definitely worth the while. The three episode format works better for Doom in general though. A 32 level build up is too long for just about any type of boss...

Technician said:

Those are obviously barons.


Their snouts are clearly too long and they're not muscular enough - those are more likely to be Abyssal Squires, or perhaps a pack of Vehement Viceroys...

I wonder - has any visitors to hell ever found that snazzy pistol pictured in the original uncropped image? The pistol in Sin is kinda similar in feel I guess, but I've never actually seen the pistol on Doom's cover inside of Doom itself...

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