Difference: BFG vs Steam version

Probably just a backwards compatible, but more up-to-date version of the new engine. Also, same models/levels but better textures in most cases, as well as support for newer shader effects.

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XCOPY said:

How good is it's netcode compared to the old Doom 3? Are there enough people playing it to justify buying it? And if the engines are different, how did they simply copy pasted whole rooms perfectly?

Entire sets of maps converted to the new engine? :P


The netcode is horrible. I'm not even sure the game uses dedicated servers. Both "Rage" and "Doom 3: BFG" ditched a typical multiplayer server list and substituted it with some simplified version where you just click a "find a game" button and the game connects you wherever it wants to. I understand the decision (it makes it easier for new and casual players to quickly jump into a game), but it seems that the first player to join a lobby hosts the game and the rest connect to him.

Long story short: I don't recall ever playing with a ping lower than 250 when I connected to somebody.

Also, the game is dead. Unless you search for some people (i.e. on Steam forums) and arrange games yourself, there is little chance you'll ever play. Not by trying to join a game at random.

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Maes said:

Probably just a backwards compatible, but more up-to-date version of the new engine.

It's hardly backward compatible, it's a very different beast. Generally the same on the surface, but radically rewritten under the hood. Some of the more notable changes include binary, rather than text-based maps, and a different archive format called .resources. I have an SSD and an i7, and vanilla D3 still loads slow as molasses. BFG on the other hand, I barely get a glimpse of the loading screen, it's very nice.

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Quasar said:

I believe the answer is in how German law is written. Works are indexed and "confiscated" by name. So all of the content in Wolfenstein-3D is considered illegal in Germany due to it being on that list. That could mean including any of it in Doom would make Doom subject to the same. That's what my understanding is, anyway.

It's a little tiresome watching one country with a stick up its arse manage to enforce censorship over the entire world. The irony of banning a game where you shoot Nazis for having Nazi symbols in it is pretty thick if you ask me. Basically amounts to an unintentional defense of Nazi ideology.

I think calling it an "unintentional defense of Nazi ideology" is rather extreme and comes across as a bit ignorant on your part.

Culturally, Germany has quite a cross to bear in the form of its history with WW2, the Nazi party and the Holocaust. What happened there is taken extremely seriously even today, and rightly so. That includes German laws, which still ban certain material, such as the swastika and the Horst-Wessel Lied (which infamously appears as the music on Wolf3D's title screen).

Think about Wolf3D as a game overall - from its visual style to its content and what a native German might find offensive about it. I don't mean shallow things like "it has swastikas and swastikas are illegal" - I'm thinking stuff more like Hitler in a robot suit or the "let's see that again!" deathcam, or names like "General Fettgesicht" (Fatface). The point is, it's not a "serious" FPS like modern games are - it's cartoony and comedic, and might be said to trivialize what to Germans are incredibly serious issues.

It is possible to do comedy about these subjects in a tasteful way - I recently watched La Vita รจ Bella which is an amazing film and I'd recommend it to anyone. But Wolf3D isn't carefully constructed and tasteful like it is.

This isn't intended as a criticism of Wolf3D - it is what it is, and I enjoy playing it myself. All I'm saying is that it's an American game made by Americans from an American perspective for an American audience. You and I don't have the collective, cultural guilt to bear that the German public do. I'm all for free speech, but I totally understand why their censors banned it.

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That was a very good post Fraggle, I never actually thought of it that way and it's basically THE reason Wolfenstein is so controversial. It trivializes one of the biggest tragedies in world history. Personally, I don't care and I will continue to enjoy the game as much as I have, but it's a reasonable argument.

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My problem with this edition of the game is they edited it in the most odd and backwards way. Instead of just replacing the textures and monsters in a map editor, they did a bunch of bullshit like renaming textures and sloppily coding zombies in the soldiers place. Better yet, I'd have been happier if they simply removed all the offending content. The maps suck without the references. I don't want to play a simplistic map such as a Wolfenstein maze without the atmosphere. Open up the wad and remove the maps and resources and open up the two maps with the secret exits with an editor and remove those too.

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Revenant100 said:

This is not correct. In The Lost Mission, Exis Labs is virtually identical to Doom 3's Delta Labs. Even the goal in Exis Labs, Dr. Meyers sending you to get a plasma inducer, is shamelessly identical to Delta Labs' Ian McCormick sending you to get a plasma inducer.

The only fully original levels in The Lost Mission are the first two or so levels and all of Hell. Otherwise, it's just a mishmash of Delta Labs (with pink walls), Enpro, and a few other existing Doom 3 maps.

I noticed some parts of Exis felt similar to Delta Labs, but I just chalked that up to UAC design consistency: it's "standard issue" for UAC building architecture, and they probably reuse designs for a lot of their facilities. It didn't negatively impact the gameplay experience for me at all, and I enjoyed Lost Mission.

I think BFG generally improved the Doom 3 parts of the package, with the exception of the biosuit segment of RoE, which was completely ruined. It's not like it was particularly fun before, but now it's just awkward and out of place and kind of dull.

The classic Doom ports didn't fare so well, and I strongly recommend players buy the originals instead, if they've never played them before. Not being able to toggle random pitch is enough on its own for me to dislike those ports.

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Megamur said:

I think BFG generally improved the Doom 3 parts of the package, with the exception of the biosuit segment of RoE, which was completely ruined.


Don't forget about the whole big hell fight from RoE getting skipped (the one that takes place on an "island"). To this day I have no idea why this section was cut as it was plain awesome! The only reason I can think of is that it actually required some skill to complete and thus didn't fit consoles well ;)

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They removed that part? I hadn't played up until there. That's one of the most memorable fights in the game. How could they get rid of that? I guess they must have thought it was too hard. But just put an autosave checkpoint before and after and the problem's solved. What a strange omission.

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Maybe it was slow? RoE was both harder and slower than Doom 3. And it received the most cuts, some of them clearly to improve performance. For example, the giant fan in one of the Erebus levels was removed.

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The changes to RoE are strange, schizophrenic (more bodies laying around making your artifact constantly charged, but other changes making some parts of the game harder), and introduced a lot of new glitches. They should have left it alone IMO. It's still plenty playable though, don't get me wrong. To make up for taking the "green area" out of Hell btw they added more monsters to the rest of the map, Hell Knights in particular. They really caught me off guard on my first play-through.

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Doom 3 is for multiplayer and for mods, BFG is singleplayer and, nothing much else. For developers, the codebase is much better though.

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Megamur said:

They removed that part? I hadn't played up until there. That's one of the most memorable fights in the game. How could they get rid of that?


See what I mean? :D

Quasar said:

The changes to RoE are strange, schizophrenic (more bodies laying around making your artifact constantly charged, but other changes making some parts of the game harder), and introduced a lot of new glitches.


Which parts of the game are harder (is it just added hell knights in hell?) and what new glitches are there? Despite the changes I consider BFG to be more "solid" than old Doom III. The engine and everything is great as ever, it's the game design changes I'm not particularly fond of.

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Shadow Hog said:

Red crosses on health packs were changed into pills for legal reasons.

Wolfenstein stages had ALL decorative patches on the textures removed, and each Schutzstaffel was replaced with, like, 4 pistol zombiemen. Music for both stages was changed to D_DOOM.

Not only that... The 'BFG version' of classic DOOM also includes some enhancements compared to the vanilla one; e.g. every weapon has 3 shooting sound variants, same with monster pain and dying sound effects -- If I'm not wrong, almost every sound effect has 2 more variants.

Not to mention 'No Rest For The Living'.

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Moktar said:

Not only that... The 'BFG version' of classic DOOM also includes some enhancements compared to the vanilla one; e.g. every weapon has 3 shooting sound variants, same with monster pain and dying sound effects -- If I'm not wrong, almost every sound effect has 2 more variants.

Not to mention 'No Rest For The Living'.

I believe you're referring to the random pitch variation. There are NO new sound effects in the BFG Edition IWADs, period.

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I think the most significant changes in the BFG edition are for developers interested in the source code, as i think the bfg edition was carmack's last source code release he could get before leaving id/Bethesda. id tech 5 most likely wont be open sourced.

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