the meanest mapping trick in an IWAD

If we're strictly talking about the meanest trick, then Doom2 MAP08's end by far. If we fudge the definition and talk about meanest thing in general, then the end room of TNT.wad's MAP08 is even worse. Fuck. That. Noise.

The NIN secret in E4M1.

ASD said:

-The middle finger part in E3M2 with the lost soul trap.

I wonder if that was a joke on ID's part.

scifista42 said:

TNT MAP30's first puzzle! :)

There's actually a foolproof way to navigate through it - automap.

Ichor said:

The NIN secret in E4M1.

THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS

scifista42 said:

TNT MAP30's first puzzle! :)[/B]

MFG38 said:
[B]There's actually a foolproof way to navigate through it - automap.

Not if you're playing in vanilla, or a sourceport that doesn't show you teleport lines, I believe.

I remember playing through E3M3 of Ultimate Doom and wondered how the water would be harmful, the teleporters at E3M7 were confusing as hell first time, then there's E4M1 and E4M2, those are very dodgy having limited ammo against the sheer number of barons. Doom 2, there's Map 08, of course, and Map 23 with all those exploding barrels. Almost the entirety of Plutonia is very much sadistic. TNT, not many mean stuff, except for Map 30's platform puzzle if you don't look at the torches at the start, but I remember having a hard time figuring out Map 20. At first, I thought there was a mistake since I found no exit switch, I ran around trying to find the switch for nearly an hour until I humped the exit sign. Since you're used to finishing a level by hitting the exit switch or jumping in a exit teleporter or whatever, how was anyone supposed to figure out that humping a wall would count? Not that cryptic, but still a big F you, especially with the level being so ridiculously huge.

One of the secret exits in PSX Doom (might have been the entrance to Club Doom) which required perfect and I mean perfect timing in the strafe run to achieve it. That was the pinnacle of frustration. TNT's Map 30 for the "puzzle" at the beginning (unacceptable mapping), Map 08's ending with the platforms (especially on PSX) I remember being frustrated with that a good 15 odd years ago. There was also a TNT map which originally didn't contain a crucial key in order to complete the level.

Any place with monsters behind 2 sided line with mid texture without transparent areas, and also it's impassable, so you can't see the monster. More annoying if the monster has room to move around behind the wall. Like the 2 Arch-Viles in Cyberden...

I also remembered now that one map of TNT Evilution (I think it was map 14?) contained a series of crushers which were first activated upon running below them.

The thing is, if you run under them with wrong timing, the crushers will be triggered in a wrong way, which makes backtracking impossible and thus renders the level unbeatable.

I read about it only after spending a considerable time trying to somehow beat the level, because I thought it IMPOSSIBLE for an OFFICIAL level to be bugged up to a point of being unbeatable.

The "exit" at E2M6 is really nasty if you're not expecting it.

Really?! Nobody is annoyed by the inescapeable pit in MAP24?

Which pit in MAP24 is inescapable?

EDIT: MAP24 is at least fair in that regard that you can see that the catwalks are dangerous, so that you feel a need to save often.

scifista42 said:

Which pit in MAP24 is inescapable?

EDIT: MAP24 is at least fair in that regard that you can see that the catwalks are dangerous, so that you feel a need to save often.

... only that this did not help back in 1994 because thanks to some savegame bugs you ended stuck somewhere down in the pit...

Graf Zahl said:

... only that this did not help back in 1994 because thanks to some savegame bugs you ended stuck somewhere down in the pit...

I remember this. Doom95, saved game on walkway, loaded game, doomguy falls THROUGH the wall and is unable to move without idclip. good times.

also, I think joe-ilya means the pits near the exit, the ones with lost souls.

Getsu Fune said:

also, I think joe-ilya means the pits near the exit, the ones with lost souls.

Obviously.

joe-ilya said:

Really?! Nobody is annoyed by the inescapeable pit in MAP24?

With the lost souls, it's more annoying than the MAP08 exit. In fact, I barely had any trouble or hate with the latter.

Ragnor said:

Theres also the immortal chaingunners on at least two Plutonia maps, chaingunners with hidden archviles behind them. One of the levels eventually crushes the archviles, but the other map? Chaingunners that are ALWAYs there sniping.

Yes, this. Oh my god. I think it was actually four maps Milo Casali did it on, especially MAP15 which is just Fuck You: The Level.

It was always Milo maps, too, I think. Dario didn't do that shit.

Plutonia's habit of putting archviles right behind chaingun sniper positions. Gotta love infinity respawning chaingunners amirgiht?

The "30 seconds or you miss out on" secret on MAP27. Not particularly tactical or gameplay-breaking issue, just a cheap and nasty way to lose your chance on scoring 100% secret at the tally.
Also, on older versions, standing under the door while closing would eventually result in a game crash.

"Barrels O Fun"

Especially the bit with the Hellbaron that you have to try to kill before he explodes every barrel on the fucking planet, fuck that level.

The 'reverse teleporter' of Map18 is the first thing that comes to mind - it's one of the few traps that managed to catch me completely offguard when I played the game the second or third time through.

Humanity said:

Plutonia's habit of putting archviles right behind chaingun sniper positions. Gotta love infinity respawning chaingunners amirgiht?

Oh shit, this one. Plutonia MAP01, chaingunners in a balcony with an arch-vile behind, resurrecting them indefinitely. And killing the av is a pain in the ass: even if you get him, chances are you are going to be very low on ammo, and there are two more chaingunners at the top of the stairs. And a revenant behind the door. Damn.

The way you have to jump to the blue door in 'Downtown' was pretty douchey. That kind of shit should be reserved for secrets, not the main path you're meant to follow. A lot of Doom2 maps overall were a little too cryptic, but then again I suppose Doom2 was intended to be significantly more difficult than D1, so it makes sense in a way.

Also gonna agree with the dickish imp trap in 'The Factory', that lowering platform horseshit in 'Tricks and Traps', and the ultimate fuck-you slime pit at the end of 'The Chasm'. I honestly don't know what they were thinking with those ones.

dethtoll said:

It was always Milo maps, too, I think. Dario didn't do that shit.

It could be me, but Milo's maps seem far more difficult and unforgiving than Dario's. His traps are just cruel, nasty, sadistic, and extremely lethal. Then again, that's what makes Plutonia so memorable. The entire mapset is relentless and fast-paced which really pumps your adrenaline.

On my early playthroughs I'm sure I got discouraged with maps like Citadel and Deepest Reaches and ended up skipping past them... I enjoy exploring large, idiosyncratic maps but those always seemed a little too inscrutable, to me! Navigating through these two appears to require dedicated study of the map or a series of inspired guesses. =P

also, although I suppose this isn't a mapping trick so much as a pacing issue, I always thought Caged belonged much deeper in the level order of Plutonia - it seems by far the most lethal of the early maps to me. I might just be playing it like an idiot, but you have to watch so many directions, while handling the map's disorienting nature (for anyone who hasn't learnt it thoroughly), always remaining wary of the flying enemies teleporting in in a semi-random fashion and I can never make my way through the level without committing some catastrophic error! I'm not complaining about the map - I think it's quite elegant and adventurous, and still remains vaguely fair - just that it appears so soon.

I think a lot of you are forgetting HexeN :P

Map12 cacodemon room elevators.

Looper said:

Map12 cacodemon room elevators entrance door.

FTFY

DeathevokatioN said:

I think a lot of you are forgetting HexeN :P

Yeah, I sort of assumed we were talking about Doom only, but Hexen is in a league of its own.

You press a button and get a message along the lines of "something happened". Now go ahead and explore the whole hub to see in which level a random wall moved sideways so you could proceed. After the said wall you will find a switch. Press it and "something will happen". Rinse and repeat :P