So why aren't you mapping?

40oz said:

I have real life responsibilities that are occupying too

That's it ...

40oz said:

I'd really like to see more short episodes,

I'm with you on this line of thought, as well. Shorter map sets (i.e. anywhere from ~3-10 maps) tend to be my preferred way to consume Doom. It can be hard to find the time or motivation to properly run all the way through a full set of 32 levels in any reasonable span of time.

[ edit: Heh, I just typed up a three paragraph analysis of the phenomenon I'll dub "megawad fatigue", but I'm going to erase it and stop rambling before I try to hijack this thread into "Why aren't you playing?" =p ]

Sometimes I feel it's hard to come up with anything original or unique because I feel it's all been done already.

scifista42 said:

Nobody heard about Jimmy's Speed-MIDI-ing Sessions? :)

all of these threads are dated 5 years ago...

Doomhuntress said:

speed-compositioning could be fun. i generally crank out a track in about 3 to 4 hours now, i've found out. though i dunno how you'd organize that: 32-in-24 you can at least run the whole thing with your source-port of choice, and the levels would usually have custom music in them anyway. not to be pessimistic or anything, but i feel that mappers would care more about new textures or sprites as a resource for their levels than the music.

It wouldn't be for the mappers -- just a standalone activity. Music has deeper roots than mapping anyway, so if anything, maps are a resource for the musicians. >:-D

When you guys map, where do you usually find your inspiration, do you just play other maps to get some ideas? Any advice would be appreciated.

Mithran Denizen said:

I'm with you on this line of thought, as well. Shorter map sets (i.e. anywhere from ~3-10 maps) tend to be my preferred way to consume Doom. It can be hard to find the time or motivation to properly run all the way through a full set of 32 levels in any reasonable span of time.

[ edit: Heh, I just typed up a three paragraph analysis of the phenomenon I'll dub "megawad fatigue", but I'm going to erase it and stop rambling before I try to hijack this thread into "Why aren't you playing?" =p ]

I'm all for the notion that not every single multilevel mapset needs to shoot for 32+ maps, especially if the maps in a set are of a goodly size/length. If you suffer from megaWAD fatigue, though, you should come try joining in a Doomworld MegaWAD club thread one of these months--1-2 maps per day (and sometimes 0 on a few days, depending on the month/WADs) over the course of a month is a pretty manageable pace, and indeed that's much of the idea behind those threads.

Piper Maru said:

Sometimes I feel it's hard to come up with anything original or unique because I feel it's all been done already.

Looks like someone hasn't heard of jmickle66666666's map theme generator. Endless ideas - yours for only $99.99: http://www.jmickle.com/genrerator/maptheme.html

Piper Maru said:

When you guys map, where do you usually find your inspiration, do you just play other maps to get some ideas? Any advice would be appreciated.

I usually think of a title and base the theme or concept around it. I'm also inspired by parts of existing maps that I think didn't quite work out. I think of why not and what would be better and then map around that idea.

I've actually completed a map recently, posted an early version, and got lots of feedback. However, after working on it for so long I feel a little burned out, and I have to wait for my mapping energy to replenish itself before continuing.

I'll take a quick break from my self-imposed exile into permanent lurking to post in this thread, as I like it. I'm not mapping for a raft of reasons:

1) Aforementioned exile - it turns out that having an audience was a major factor in me making maps.

2) Even before leaving, I'd become quite convinced there wasn't really an audience for my maps. It's oddly discouraging to repeatedly release stuff that nobody seems to be interested in. I say "oddly", because I never realised how narcissistic being on the Internet frequently made me. I honestly don't miss that.

3) I have a load of stalled projects that were in progress, so I suppose in theory I could pick those up if the mood takes me. Buuut...

4) I've accumulated a gigantic games collection and a fairly sizeable list of games I want to try as well. Another surprise revelation that's come from stepping back from the Doom community is that I've largely missed 20 years of really good games by almost exclusively playing or mapping Doom level sets. Having tried a couple of recent, highly regarded releases (Going Down mostly) I've actually found them quite dull and repetitive (leading to Megawad fatigue, as mentioned above) compared to the variety that comes from hammering through different games that I've either never played before or didn't finish at the time.

5) CC5 hasn't started yet :p

Short version is that looking in on what I've been doing with Doom for so long, I've concluded that it wasn't doing me many favours. I'll probably still be back to map something at some point though. Doom levels are probably still fun to make occasionally.

I want to learn, but it's always daunting to me to learn the mapping know-how in order to create my ideas. That and, it takes a backseat due to my interest in (G)ZDoom modding.

Demon of the Well said:

If you suffer from megaWAD fatigue, though, you should come try joining in a Doomworld MegaWAD club thread one of these months--1-2 maps per day (and sometimes 0 on a few days, depending on the month/WADs) over the course of a month is a pretty manageable pace, and indeed that's much of the idea behind those threads.

Thanks! The megawad club seems like good fun. I did play through a portion of Requiem (~10 maps) when it was featured last(?) month, though I never got around to posting about it. As it stands, an average-sized map per day, across an entire month, is still a more brisk pace than I can reliably keep up at the moment.

The trouble is that rushing through 30+ maps for the sake of completion feels like a chore, yet tackling them leisurely over two or three months, in small spurts, tends to become so drawn out that it also feels like a chore.

RUSH said:

Looks like someone hasn't heard of jmickle66666666's map theme generator. Endless ideas - yours for only $99.99: http://www.jmickle.com/genrerator/maptheme.html

"Lots of Marshs around Steampunk Victoria
Based around the BFG"

Well that's interesting.

Don't let yourself be held back by the "I don't think people would like what I made" choice - you might find that a select few people will be drawn to the weirder maps that appear from time to time and get feedback out of nowhere!

As for myself, I am mapping now, but very infrequently and I consider myself a musician more so than a mapper, which means the latter is usually just a vehicle for the former... a sort of primitive vehicle like a horse and cart, maybe, with hexagonal wheels and with too many pain elementals in the front seat.

mithran denizen
Thanks! The megawad club seems like good fun. I did play through a portion of Requiem (~10 maps) when it was featured last(?) month, though I never got around to posting about it. As it stands, an average-sized map per day, across an entire month, is still a more brisk pace than I can reliably keep up at the moment.

The trouble is that rushing through 30+ maps for the sake of completion feels like a chore, yet tackling them leisurely over two or three months, in small spurts, tends to become so drawn out that it also feels like a chore.

I personally found it still pretty interesting to play through a previously featured megawad after the fact, reading all the comments of other people who had just played that same level is insightful. I felt like I was actually playing with the club when I did this once, and of course it has the virtue of removing any time pressure if one map a day is still too much.

Sui Generis said:

The irony is that what a lot of people reject and end up deleting might potentially be entertaining for others, if developed into a full map. One man's trash, and so forth. Perhaps a rejected level scraps tune-up community project might be interesting, and a possible means of inspiring the original author.

scifista42 said:

Well, there have been attempts to do so, not much successful, though.

Skimming through those threads, it looks like they didn't progress because too much needed to happen before people felt they could commit. I think a simpler idea that's more amenable to spontaneous entry would do better. Perhaps if a few map 'seeds' were initially posted, and viewers were invited to add or improve an area and then repost the result, the next participant could build on this and so on. This would allow for community members to recycle map scraps and collectively contribute to maps in a casual fashion that might avoid the pitfalls that have been mentioned in the OP here.

Real life can be a distraction, I haven't really been "feeling it" lately, and even when I do sit down and fire up the old Doom Builder, oftentimes I'll just sit there staring at a blank grid because I can't think of any ideas. Or I might draw one room, work on detailing it, then have absolutely no idea what to do with it. That's what happened to me the last time I really got gung ho about mapping - I was just like, "Well crap, now what?" I kept trying to start adding a second room, or a hallway, or anything, but I didn't like the ideas I tried, and I couldn't think of what it was that I really wanted to do, so I just let that room languish. That really kinda got me discouraged from trying again. Not that I've ever been much of a mapper, anyway, I think I've only ever released 4 maps, not counting a speedmapping session I participated in and one map I contributed to Freedoom (I had actually started a second map for Freedoom, didn't even get it halfway done though, can't remember if I ever submitted what I had as a placeholder or not, though).

EDIT: Oh, turns out I had submitted what I had finished as a placeholder, and someone else finished it. Ha! That's awesome!

I am mapping. I'm just not finishing anything. D:

usually I am always working on something, but as has been mentioned by a few people in the thread, it's too easy for me to become concerned with whether or not people will like it/whether it will "tarnish" my reputation (don't want to make something worse than my previous stuff). I sometimes think about trying to establish some sort of community or alternative place (or even just a thread) for people to share whatever whenever, including any potentially wacky stuff they aren't too sure about. something away from DW might be good, dunno though. the issue with this though is that I am often far less interested in playing Doom than I am in mapping/modding, so I wouldn't want to start a "let's all share and give feedback to each other" and then myself completely ignore the feedback part.

Platinum Shell's comment has made me start wondering whether there's an audience (either those already in the doom community that don't map, or those in other communities) that would be interested in mapping tutorials. imo it's really not too difficult to get to a point of competence with mapping in a short period of time

RUSH said:

Looks like someone hasn't heard of jmickle66666666's map theme generator. Endless ideas - yours for only $99.99: http://www.jmickle.com/genrerator/maptheme.html

Let's see, I got...
A Mind-boggling Arcology below Mars
MAP01 Introduction
Use self-referencing sectors

I'm sold!!!

because I'm sucking cock™

^ Nice

AD_79 said:
I AM mapping, just really really slowly.

This applies to me as well.

I'm not mapping because School, work, Wiritng my book, and writing on Wookieepedia, and the last big map I worked on mysteriously removed itself from existence.

This is an interesting topic. I enjoyed reading it.

I have real life responsibilities that are occupying too much of my time.

No responsibilities outside of work, but I often work late and sometimes until midnight. When I get home, I'm usually too tired to do anything creative. If I leave work at a reasonable time then it is usually to go out dancing. I'm in my thirties and my childhood friends are all having babies with their long-term partners. If I spend my thirties making Doom maps then I might regret it for the rest of my life.

I am bogged down by way too many unfinished projects as it is.

I have many unfinished programming projects and I'm part way through building a model plane. I'm not making much progress on either. I'm also sitting on two incomplete Doom maps, both of which have nice features but never quite made the grade. It's like Tim Willits said about computer games: WADs either have a soul or they don't.

I prefer to contribute to the community in an alternate way (programming/music/testing)

I recently wrote a review for the newstuff chronicles. Reviewing a single map is several hours' work but still manageable to squeeze in around other things. It took me about two weeks from start to finish.

I am available but I don't think people would like what I make, or I have a lot to learn.

I certainly think that the bar is set too high nowadays. Making a Doom map used to be just something that people did over a couple of days to amuse their friends. Nowadays, I feel it isn't worth releasing a map unless it is unique and compelling.

The last map that I worked on intensively took me several months to polish and then it was played by about 6 people before being forgotten forever. (Someone else said the same thing, but I'm saying it again.)

The /newstuff reviewer wrote:

"Standard" competent detailing and visuals, albeit a bit thematically uninteresting. "Standard" challenge, also a bit uninteresting, and a bit annoyingly claustrophobic. Lots of intricate props, rooms, dynamic lights, and "IRL" stuff modeled from sectors. With sector-drinking fountains. Layout claustrophobic and occasionally annoyingly dark, with bits of geometry to snag on. Theme change towards end. Verdict: Worth playing if bored.

Why even bother if the result is "standard" and "annoying"? I don't feel there is enough of an audience to justify the amount of work it would take me to finish another map. Meanwhile I see complete rubbish like 'Wow' being rated (albeit badly) hundreds of times. It's no wonder that the archives are dominated by trolls.

I take forever. My best reasons would be being preoccupied with real-life issues, a lack of self-confidence, and a hint of OCD.

I tend to spend a LOT of time trying to get every nook and cranny to look just right. Or I finding myself staring at a blank 256-tall wall wondering to myself "The hell do I put here now?" when it should be simple to solve.

My most recent map looks like something that some people would whip out in a few hours, but it took me about three accumulative months to complete. After coming back from this I made back in 2008, it was quite a readjustment on my part.

I've been working on another map which I started back in January. I've had many moments where I had no idea what direction the map was going. If I were to incorporate all the areas, it would have had about ten or fifteen seconds of gameplay.

I deleted it just recently. I will start anew whenever I have a clearer idea on what to do.

For me, too much maps and mods to get done. I have like 3 or 4 maps that never got done.

UGH! Was I what? Overhyped when I was first making maps with Doombuilder 2?

Gods ;O.O

Honestly the easiest way (at least for me) to alleviate mapper's block or to speed up the process of making a map, is just to draw random shapes or boxes. Then start intersecting subsectors, go into 3D mode and play around with heights, maybe throw in some pillars and walkways and see where it takes you. I've made a lot of maps this way and I think it could work for a lot of people that are stuck/too slow when mapping. Sometimes you gotta just say CLUCK IT and lay down some LINES, exploit the fact you're working with a simple game engine!

ive tried mapping many times, but i never get a satisfying result. my maps end up being embarrissingly bad and super bland. i might actually release them one day under another username to avoid the humilliation

cs99cjb said:

The /newstuff reviewer wrote:


Why even bother if the result is "standard" and "annoying"? I don't feel there is enough of an audience to justify the amount of work it would take me to finish another map. Meanwhile I see complete rubbish like 'Wow' being rated (albeit badly) hundreds of times. It's no wonder that the archives are dominated by trolls.

I do agree that the community has reviewers that gleefully put people's hard work on blast (and I don't mean my maps, I understand the flaws in those all too well lol) and hardly even take the time to UNDERSTAND what a map is trying to do before judging it on an entirely different set of criteria. I'm more impressed by the one-man-doom blog, which reviews every level in a set even should they not be hyped and/or unique.

RottKing said:

Honestly the easiest way (at least for me) to alleviate mapper's block or to speed up the process of making a map, is just to draw random shapes or boxes. Then start intersecting subsectors, go into 3D mode and play around with heights, maybe throw in some pillars and walkways and see where it takes you. I've made a lot of maps this way and I think it could work for a lot of people that are stuck/too slow when mapping. Sometimes you gotta just say CLUCK IT and lay down some LINES, exploit the fact you're working with a simple game engine!

I found this works for me sometimes too. Sometimes just having some sectors lying around, not doing anything gives you something to do when you feel you've hit a wall. This is why I often start my maps by making a bunch of scattered, disconnected shapes. This helps me keep on track with my mapping and get things completed.