Compet-N: incoming and discussion, part 1 [please post in part 2 instead]

I've tried it; it's the platforms and their somewhat random configurations that makes it a bit tricky to anticipate how to best hit the switches. I never did break that part down to a science in all those runthroughs.

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My idea:



First steps:

1. Take down the cacos in the middle. (1 shot)
2. Pick up the cell
3. Take down 2 cacos in the boxes ( 1 shot )
4. Use the switches

This works commonly well: you won't wait any time for the platforms.

After this, you need improvisation.
Tips:
You can avoid waiting in a box by killing a caco in anoother box, while the platform is raising (This was your main problem in your run).
You can jump on ledges in certain boxes, switch and jump out
You can use the switch near the exit without entering the box.

I think there is one problem with this route: You will lose time with running, because you start with the middle box. In this way Xit's route is better. But in my opinion this route is not so luck-dependent.

Here's a very awful prboomplus demo to show the route:
http://users.hszk.bme.hu/~ft701/crap.lmp

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I haven't done much intense NM playing on that level myself but some demo text files dealt with it (because it could be a problem in movies), and someone mentioned a "Hungarian" method (probably used regularly by Adam H) of playing it that is not the fastest overall, but relatively safe.

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The Hungarian route is Istvan's, I believe, and involves killing the three cacos from outside using SSG or rocket, then entering the doorway and using rocket splash damage to kill cacos on the three visible lowered platforms. So when the player runs into the room proper half the opposition are already dead. A safe way of playing the level when you don't have much experience with it, but not that much use on a single level run.

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Wow. About pa26...just amazing. I never thought I would see that unassisted. Once again excellent job Xit.

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pa26 is a great achievement. Xit, are you going for pa02?

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Well, I'm getting hooked on pa02, so I'll give it some tries. Don't expect me to be successful though--it's likely to take more patience than I have right now.

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ups, I downloaded all incoming demos at the begin of February, didn't watch the newer ones ... nevermind =)

I am always so problematic :D

edit: omg, Now I see, I have some unsorted tnt demos in the download folder, contaning a demo, which beats mine ... I am so sloppy, sorry

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I know you all would rather see a complete TNT UV Max movie (or one for episode 3, at least) than this; but since DeDo said in his 5445EV01.TXT

after the great start I was starting to hope I could get it in under 54 minutes. But it looks like I'll have to leave it for someone else to do.:)

you can blame him for it. :D
True, I was kind of reluctant to post a demo marred by so many lame episodes, but it's my most fighting movie yet and may bear a replay. Besides, I couldn't miss the chance to attempt to prove that what one lacks in the playing department could be made up for in the literary one. The TXT that comes with this demo will make The Green Herring's writing style look terse! :P

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Never_Again said:

I know you all would rather see a complete TNT UV Max movie (or one for episode 3, at least)than this

Well, you are right. No disappointment though.
Under 50 minutes is a really impressive time for Evilution's 1st episode. I'm going to watch it tomorrow.

Good luck with them both a full movie and 3rd episode one.

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I'm very happy to see a time under 50 minutes for the 1st episode, congratulations on that Never_Again. Great demo.

Somehow, after watching it I felt a bit relieved that I'm not the only one that makes dumb things in his runs. :P The map04 trigger happened to me too atleast once, ofcourse I was killed soon afterwards because I kept rolling my eyes and thinking "How the hell did I manage to do that". The first pillar on map08 is the same thing. I'm actually surprised if I get on and stay on it on the first try hehe. And there's many more. From my experience, the more a stupider things the better the chance of finishing, with some exceptions here and there. :D
But ignoring these things as they are not that important this was very enjoyable to watch. Even more probably because I did it as well and kept thinking "Interesting thing to do, why didn't I think of that?" I was really impressed by your time on map02 and 05, I never even came close to that. Map01 too but I hate that one too much to care about it. Sorry :p

All in all, another victory on the TNT front, and more are sure to come. :)

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I would like to say that I think what Never Again did with the IWAD demos in incoming is pretty cool and I hope he still plans to do the same for the pwads.

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Your wish is my command, Master.
The /incoming/PWADs/ summary is complete. Being aware of the problems with mislabeled/invalid entries in the first edition of the IWAD summary, I -levelstated each of the 257 demos with prBoom+ (god bless e6y!) to ascertain that every demo completes successfully and all category requirements are met. I also watched many of the shorter ones and left comments where appropriate.
It was a 10hrs+ marathon, so there may be errors (although I checked every single link besides -levelstating); if you find any, please report them here.

This is a truly amazing body of work, guys, I am most impressed. Well done! I hope my little summary will help unearth all those gems that have been gathering dust in the mess of the /incoming for the past three years.

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Never_Again said:

It was a 10hrs+ marathon, so there may be errors (although I checked every single link besides -levelstating); if you find any, please report them here.

So far, I noticed the AV MAP01 co-op demos by the Kapustin brothers were mixed up. The 0:22 demo is listed as a max demo, but is actually a speed demo, while the 1:24 demo is listed as a speed demo, but is actually a max demo.

Anyway, last Sunday, my vanilla Dooming computer (running on Windows 98) died. Yesterday, it returned to life thanks to a replaced PSU. And on that same day, soon after its resurrection, I recorded a new Compet-n demo. Look at the PWAD incoming/ to find a demo that fills another hole in the PWAD UV -respawn tables: Memento Mori II MAP26: Base Exposure, done in 5:45. Enjoy!

EDIT (3/23/2008 2:45 PM): You should also mention for my MM MAP11 -respawn that 0% Secrets are obtained, since there are none in the map.

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Xit Vono quietly posted three new Requiem records:

MAP03 UV Speed in 1:29, this one features a spechits overflow
MAP04 UV Speed in 1:18

and the first ever Pacifist for MAP04 in 14:24. I used to think Pacifist runs were a waste of time and energy, until I saw Xit's TNT MAP10 entry. Since then I've been following every new *p* demo with interest. Just a week ago I was watching his 5925rq01 movie and remember thinking during the MAP04 part: now here is a level that is definitely not Pacifist-friendly. So rp041424 came as quite a surprise. This run features some very tight spots and is certainly worth replaying - recommended!

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Yeah the rp04 was really neat to watch. It really looks like something that would need tools assistance. I guess not with Xit though. :)

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Indeed, pretty awesome run, just watched it earlier tonight, incidentally.

Never_Again said:
I used to think Pacifist runs were a waste of time and energy, until I saw Xit's TNT MAP10 entry.

What, you had mostly ignored (not watched) pacifist runs till now? Because there have been some pretty great/hard pacifist runs in the past.

Well, if that is the case, it'll give you something entertaining to do for a while (though it could be shortened by someone highlighting the more exceptional ones).

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myk said:

Well, if that is the case, it'll give you something entertaining to do for a while (though it could be shortened by someone highlighting the more exceptional ones).

Exceptional ones I can name off the top of my head at the moment are these two by Adam Williamson:

Exceptional because for years, completing both of those levels on Pacifist was considered impossible because of that tunnel with the Demons. Then Adam discovered how to get past it. The rest is history.

For Adam's fastest times on those maps, check out P3M1-055 and P3M9-141. For the fastest times currently on the site, both achieved by Radek Pecka, see P3M1-048 and P3M9-137.

Also, let's not forget the famous PA07-041 demo. Like the other two levels, MAP07: Dead Simple was considered impossible to complete on Pacifist, until Drew DeVore managed the feat with an insane rocket jump. The amount of luck required to do this is so astronomical that he didn't pull it off until the third try! Crazy...

EDIT (4-4-2008 1:38 AM PST): There's also Eugene Kapustin's first Compet-n demo, EP30-340, which is a UV Pacifist demo on TNT MAP30, an Icon of Sin level. You should see for yourself how he does this. He later improved it to 2:04 in EP30-204.

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Speaking of Adam Williamson and pacifist, his Plutonia Map31 adventures are quite memorable.

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Ahaha, time for those classic pp31 quotes again!

"(#218) (The joy of dooming part1) [21:54] <AdamW> gah [22:08] <AdamW> GRAH [22:08] <AdamW> grrrr [22:28] <AdamW> man [22:28] <AdamW> that was a fast one :( [22:38] <AdamW> oh for god's sake [22:38] <AdamW> GRR [22:57] <AdamW> oh my GOD [22:57] <AdamW> I FUCKED UP THE FUCKING RJ

(#219) (The joy of dooming part2)[22:58] <AdamW> ARG [23:43] <AdamW> arggggg [00:12] <AdamW> IT HAPPENED AGAIN [00:12] <AdamW> i hate this game [00:13] <AdamW> *cries* [00:14] <AdamW> EVIL FUCKING GAME [01:22] <AdamW> FUCK's sake [01:23] <AdamW> i'm gonna break something soon

(#220) (The joy of dooming part3) <[NM]AdamW> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO <[NM]AdamW> WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO# <[NM]AdamW> wOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH *[NM]AdamW dances <[NM]AdamW> finally, finally, finally fucking got it * [NM]AdamW backs the demo up * [NM]AdamW backs it up again <[NM]AdamW> i'm NOT losing this one to an extension mistake"

And of course, the classic text for pp13-044

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I've got another demo in incoming. It's a nightmare(secrets) demo for requiem map6. I had done TAS demos for this one as well as for rp04 at about the same time. At the time I believed that rn06 would be impossible and I think I wasn't sure about rp04.

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Well wow, that's one I thought we'd never see. I recall back then you saying you thought it wouldn't be feasible unassisted.

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Just watched it. The demo looks rather not hard at all. But it's all about great skill of real master of doom. Excellent run.

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Following on from Never_Again's ultra detailed summary of /incoming/pwads, I've done another zipfile of all the demos. As before, I've renamed wrongly labeled demos, corrected some textfiles, put in a directory structure, etc. Link to the pack:

http://competn.doom2.net/incoming/dang/misc/20080409-pwad.zip

The only bit I got confused with was what to do with all the regular nm submissions that happen to have 100% secrets in the run. Trouble is that Adam has been totally inconsistent in this. Look at the mm records page for instance. For instance mm02 has an nm record, no nm100s record, even though the nm record in question has 100% secrets, and these are avoidable secrets. Or look at mm14. The nm record is 2:14, the nm100s record is 3:23, both demos have 100% secrets, as will any demo on this level by definition. Going to mm30 we only have one record, an nm100s run, precisely the opposite situation to mm02.

There doesn't seem to be a consistent rule to apply. My guess is that Adam simply took the demos in whatever category they were submitted, and didn't worry about whether they should be reassigned to nm100s or nm, or whether the secrets in the level were avoidable, or indeed anything besides whether they were valid demos for nm or nm100s.

Anyway, these are the rules I ended up going with:
* Demo has < 100% secrets, it's nm.
* Demo has 100% secrets and secrets are unavoidable, it's both nm and nm100s. However even though this theoretically means two entries in the database, whenever this happened on an iwad demo Adam would just link the regular nm demo. So I didn't rename any demos.
* Demo has 100% secrets, which are avoidable, it's whatever category the demo was submitted in. That does mean the same demo can be submitted twice, although nobody's done that in the recent pwad uploads and I'm not inclined to worry about doing it for them. My personal philosophy on this is until there is a difference between an nm run and an nm100s run the latter category is superfluous, so all demos should go to nm first even if they're 100% secrets.

So in the end I haven't ended up renaming any of the mm or requiem nightmare files. But anyone wants to throw counter arguments my way go for it.


Oh yes. Also I updated the last iwad zipfile to include Xit's uncorrupted pn06-105. This doesn't include some later submissions though.

http://competn.doom2.net/incoming/dang/misc/20080212-iwad.zip

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