New Vile Flesh demos

MAP13 UV Max in 10:13. Not worth watching if you know the existing record from the memory. Next step: MAP14 Tyson, unless someone wants it...

vf131013.zip

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MAP04 pacifist in 5:13. Very slow, good for laughs maybe... Fastforward to 5:00 for the only good moment. :)

vf04p513.zip

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vdgg said:

MAP13 UV Max in 10:13.


That level is so damn linear that I don't think it's possible to improve upon Tomas' record very much. I remember spending a few hours trying to better his time when I first started using VF as a UV Max practice WAD, and the best I could do was a meager 30 second improvement, similar to yours.

I'm not sure if there are any shortcuts; it would require tedious research with an editor - the kind of work that TOD did with Eternal.

Edit:

@Daiyu - Honestly, my time of 6:32 shouldn't be difficult to beat at all, as I think the route you used (grabbing the backpack first) is far better. You should be aiming for a 5:5x at least.

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Qaatar said:

I'm not sure if there are any shortcuts;

there is one, but it won't help... anyone human, heh. map13 uv-speed TAS in 1:35

vf13x135.zip

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map15 uv-speed in 1:46
map16 uv-speed in 4:49
map18 uv-speed in 2:01

that's it for me and vileflesh. the rest is massive and flows in slow, linear fashion, that's not my favourite flavour.

viledew3.zip

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vdgg said:

MAP13 UV Max 9:55


Wow! You done so fast, within 10 minutes! This is a very hard work, my run is 11:03. :(

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I'd say that run is almost the same as the previous one (10:13), only more lucky...

MAP20 UV Max 16:00

vf201600.zip

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good work on that map20 speed.. yes, it's cringeworthy at some parts, but this is exactly why i gave up on the later maps.. the way some doors get hopelessly clogged when you need to backtrack and clearing it out takes minutes.

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Always happy to see these, such a brilliant underrated wad, I keep hoping to hear word of a sequel.

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Daiyu_Xiaoxiang said:
Vile Flesh map17 by 10:28.

Hi Daiyu,
I watched Tomas' MAP17 run last week, I remember it pretty well. Glad you came up with the same ideas as me - chainsawing the first revenant, killing the demons with the SSG... your run is very nice overall.

I must say however that your demo is kind of illogical, as you used -complevel 2, which is not recommended for this map. I know, I know, I use -complevel 2 in my demos here, but let me try to explain:
- one approach is to record every Vile Flesh demo with Boom compatibility (-complevel 9), which is "safe"
- another one is to use Vanilla compat + limit removing (-complevel 2) with all maps without issues. MAP01 - MAP14 have no problems. MAP17 for sure HAS a blue key problem. The rest: I don't know.

The intended behaviour is: the blue key is initially invisible and cannot be picked up (complevel 9)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/wojtunio/map17-clvl9.jpg

With -complevel 2 you may grab it right away:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/wojtunio/map17-clvl2.jpg

You didn't quite exploit it in your demo if I understood well. Also -complevel 9 should be more difficult on this level, as there is no lost soul limit (the room with pain elementals).

I'm going to keep recording with -complevel 2, perhaps except MAP22 for aesthetical reasons: first picture is -complevel 9, a medikit lying on the floor, second one is -complevel 2, medikit floating in the air :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/wojtunio/map22-clvl9.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/wojtunio/map22-clvl2.jpg


@Grazza: please correct me if I'm wrong in something here

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Oh, I doesn't always noticed about complevels or something, as I only use -complevel 9 when recording Cchest, WOS or something, I may always think that Vile Flesh should be -complevel 2. So in map17 using -complevel 9, where will the blue key located?

The current playthoughs of Vile Flesh are all -complevel 2, I see and consider if I will change to -complevel 9 when recording other maps. Anyway I know that killing that revenant with the chainsaw is fast, but I got a few times being hurt seriously or even dead when doing this task, sometimes it may takes luck for chainsawing a revenant.

So will you record map22? That map is so large, also quite complex and challenging to get the SSG which is put in such far away. But I do like that map, it's beautiful and the map11 reused music is so nice! I see if I will also try a run of that map if I have more spare time, anyway my planned playthough maybe map28, 21 or something. The map13 run is so hard for improvement, killing those bastards(Cacos and P.E) in the T-shape corridor fast almost takes luck.

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vdgg said:

@Grazza: please correct me if I'm wrong in something here

I don't think anyone has ever been through the wad systematically to check for any problems with -complevel 2. (It's a big wad, and this would be a very major undertaking.) There are some known problems (map17 and map28; maybe map22 too), but many maps where there might be problems large (map breaking) or small (visual glitches or something not working quite as intended). If you record on any map where there isn't already a -complevel 2 demo, then you should regard it as a bit of an experiment. And even when there is a -complevel 2 demo, it is possible that the player used an unintended route option without even realizing it, due to some small difference in behaviour.

Gwyn didn't use any Boom features in the maps, but did all his testing with Boom 2.02. So that allows for "Boomisms" and issues related to floor motion (in particular) if you play the maps with Doom2.exe behaviour. Some of the differences are quite subtle and surprising (like this, for instance). Personally, I would use -complevel 9, or else check very carefully that the intended route works the same in both cases. Remember that a -nomonsters run won't pick up all issues, as in Boom a floor can lower even if there are live monsters imbedded in it - with vanilla behaviour, it won't.

Long story short: your summary is right. The problem is that there are many maps where it isn't yet known if there are issues (including those that have been assumed not to). Perhaps the question to ask is: Is there any particular reason not to use -complevel 9?

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Grazza said:
Perhaps the question to ask is: Is there any particular reason not to use -complevel 9?


Well I admit I treated this WAD as limit-removing, like Daiyu, until I read through some of the old forum posts about Vile Flesh this month. I just tried to be consistent with my demos -complevels.You're right and, as if I'm going to record something, it will be for maps 22-25, thus I'll switch to Boom compat. I noticed one more thing in MAP22 close to the medikit from my screenshots. A revenant in a closed compartment is dead blocked in -complevel 2, which makes little sense, while in -complevel 9 it crosses a teleporter line, sneak attacking the player from behind.

Daiyu_Xiaoxiang said:
Where will the blue key located?


Just go and check it, it's close to the start of the level. It is in the same place, only not accessible right away and you cannot see it.
To reveal it, you must just cross the passage near a baron and the steep stairs (there is a soulsphere secret nearby, too, but it has nothing to do with the blue key).

Yep, I'll try to do something with MAP22, nothing to stop you from recording also :) It has the longest demo from the pack. I think Tomas' play is pretty impressive, a very disciplined demo, maybe his best from the pack, the only problem is that his route is IMO plainly wrong :)

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vdgg said:

Just go and check it, it's close to the start of the level. It is in the same place, only not accessible right away and you cannot see it.
To reveal it, you must just cross the passage near a baron and the steep stairs (there is a soulsphere secret nearby, too, but it has nothing to do with the blue key).

Yep, I'll try to do something with MAP22, nothing to stop you from recording also :) It has the longest demo from the pack. I think Tomas' play is pretty impressive, a very disciplined demo, maybe his best from the pack, the only problem is that his route is IMO plainly wrong :)


Oh! I think I know where it is, the baron passage you mentioned is just near the entrance of the west guard tower, which takes almost 8 shoots to get him down with a SSG.

Never mind about the recording or something, actually map22, together with 23, 26 and 27 are the largest map in vile, almost takes patience to finish it since SSG will given near the end. Map27 is also fun to play with, I like the map13 music too, only disadvantage is extreme limit of ammo at many cases.

Off topic! Hope you may finish map22 within 20 minutes or something, I think Thomas Kollar's method of dealing the spiders and mancubus(Located in North room seen in automap) is too slow.

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Grazza said:

Perhaps the question to ask is: Is there any particular reason not to use -complevel 9?

true, i would've used boom behaviour had i noticed it sooner. now that i think about it, i actually exploit vanilla behaviour in vf01p022. the doorman sargeant is stuck on door tracks and remains on opening duty forever. it'd take major luck to get help from his boom cousin.

it's ironic, in demonfear i accidentally recorded map01 max with boom behaviour and when i wanted to re-record with cl2, the doortrack freezing worked strongly against me.

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Here is map01 pacifist in 23.29 with -complevel 9 and door trick, recorded one week ago.

[I guess no need to upload it to DSDA]

vf01p023.zip

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map 20 in 13:36 (Tomas scored 20:48, just for comparision)

The most annoying max I've done so far. Enough said.

vf20-1336.zip

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j4rio said:

map 20 in 13:36 (Tomas scored 20:48, just for comparision)

The most annoying max I've done so far. Enough said.


I just watch your playthough, indeed this map is so annoying to done on UV Max. It's good you managed to get pass so much tough monsters without taking too much damage. I don't think I will like this map, but if I max on it, probably I will try to use your route.

vdgg said:

MAP22 UV Max 20:17


Nice run, do you have any problem getting the SSG by that complex structure?

Anyway, Vile Flesh map13 by 11:03. Map15 have already done, but the run is sloopy and shit as hell, which use 12:28. I want to try more times to get improvements.

vf-13-1103.zip

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map20 uv-speed in 2:39

vdgg's trickjump inspired me and i found another one. :)

vf20-239.zip

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Daiyu_Xiaoxiang said:

map18 - Bone Yard(UV Max) by 9:07

Funny moment with disappearing revenants in this area. Actually there is a lot of unclosed sectors (mapping errors) in this wad.

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Memfis said:

Funny moment with disappearing revenants in this area. Actually there is a lot of unclosed sectors (mapping errors) in this wad.


I have noticed this while playing at that area. Therefore I try to kill revenants one by one to prevent wasting too much plamsa cells. I want to kill some for the remaining 2 revenants near the start.

So is that picture captured from my playthough?

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