fresh and tasty as always! Thanks for keeping this project alive, i'm always happy to watch your new stuff.

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Is the project on hold? Or is it just the first Flynn map ;)

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lol nice
Any reason why you didn't rocket jump into the exit teleporter?

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Wow, it's a shame I didn't see it. Of course, I would need a mega for that, but the time invested would be nothing compared to the time gained. More excuses: 1. the gap seemed so big; 2. "No violence" rule (see txt) :)

Trivia: Did you know it took me half an hour to get the Romero killed by one rocket (I was very tired, not sure if I was hitting the head directly or just barely missing it; the damage indicator was showing around 190 HP; finally I just fired the next rocket just for the sake of damage manipulation and it worked).

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- Something I noticed right at the beginning, before I even created my first TAS: lots of
waiting tics in the middle of fights, like the SSGing cacos and lost souls in dark2-06.
Lesson learned: no need to look rushed to be fast at the tally screen.

So these waiting tics aren't the "expenses" of building demos? I've always meant to ask about this because it looked so strange.
How does the process of building demos look anyway? If I understand correctly, you don't actually play the game, just put player's actions in the demo file? That sounds so crazy, do you have to rewatch the demo like every 2-3 new tics to check if everything goes as planned?

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I can only speak for myself, so here's some input:

  • plan ahead, where you go, what will happen, ammo, weapon usage. Intuition + experience will help you. This time I was definitely not in the mood of repeating >500 tics sequences in case of mistakes, so I just accepted them and tried to readjust the strategy. Besides, a 1:00 run will be more accurate than a 10:00 run unless I want to spend my whole life on the latter...
  • give yourself chekpoints. Switches/monster dead/item pickups are obvious ones. Say you open a door on tic# 2454, you may leave it like this, or try to rebuild the last 100-500 tics to check if you can manage to do it earlier, on tic #2448, or even earlier, etc. until you'll satisfied with the outcome.
  • No I don't rewatch the demo every 2 tics. When it's just running, I constantly check player's speed. If it drops, probably I hit a wall, this should be avoided. If it increases from about 23 to above 30, perfect, I managed a wallrun. Normally if it increases until maximum and stays like this, and you're moving in the right direction, you're doing fine. When it's fighting and you need these monsters dead NOW, you repeat until you're satisfied (you know how many rockets/SSG shots you need). I have a Doom Builder open to check for monster ID and a PrBoom+ open to check for damage (trace_givendamage [playerID number] / trace_thingshealth [3 chosen monster ID numbers]). I quickly save, choose 200 different filenames so I don't overwrite something which is just perfect, copy to PrBoom+ folder and watch with -skipsec. If I plan on a 2 rocket hell knight kill AND I only deliver the first rocket at the moment, then do something else and return after a while, I make sure this first rocket is at least 250 hp damage. If the hell knight is to be dead now, the first rocket damage helps, but may be lower, like 230, I check if the second one is enough (in other words, I repeat only about 40 tics in the latter case).
  • I find waiting tics stylish. You may shake and turn around like crazy, but it doesn't help to create a watchable demo. Whether you'r on an elevator or in between SSG shots, you can't make these things go faster, so you wait. WT ticks are also considerably faster to create, as they need just to be cloned. When the monster is about to die, you start moving and/or setting the next target. Watch the last seconds of dark2-06 (ssging a baron). The player positions himself right next to the exit switch after the 4th SSG shot, so no time is wasted. This is an example of understanding TAS combat.
  • The whole thing is a bit (too) time consuming, like making a sculpture perhaps, however watching what you've just done, even 15 seconds portion of the demo, can be very rewarding

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Yep, sounds like it requires a great deal of patience, no wonder you chose not to retry Vile Flesh map04 even though it's only about one minute long...

Oh, and by waiting tics I didn't mean standing still during the fights. That is understandable and I agree it looks nice. I meant that sometimes in Andy's demos you can notice very short pauses between the shots, he doesn't always shoot continuously. I was wondering if this is done for RNG manipulation (wait another few tics but make more damage) or if these are tiny mistakes that he doesn't always notice.

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Andy Olivera said:

Okay, what do you all think would be a good time on MAP04(Nucleus)? Twelve, maybe eleven minutes. Well, my target was ten. Imagine my surprise...

MAP04: 8:41


"Doomguy was having a really bad day. Really. Bad. Day. So, he decided to get revenge on those who pissed him off... Which happened to be everybody. This video chronicles his Roaring Rampage of Revenge, seen through the eyes of madness, where all those who apparently wronged him took on the appearance of demons and were taken down accordingly."

Seriously. I wouldn't like to even be in the same town as Doomguy, cause he'd murder your face off just because it "sounded like you looked at him funny".

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I said I would do MAP30-MAP29-MAP28... and so on. Seeing MAP29 I chickened out ATM, I found myself without any plan regarding route / weapon usage / dealing with wandering monsters and random monster behaviour. Then MAP28 is gorgeous, but I didn't mean just to pick the favourite ones and skip the neutral/bad ones. So I tried MAP27, the one I liked the least from the 3rd episode, thinking it would be easier right after a regular demo I recorded. Time: 7:32, compared to 18:33 non-assisted.

et27x732.zip

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this is most excellent. i despise eternal and its lazy pace, but you guys make it look absurdly cool.

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I noticed too :)
Not sure what dew means about eternal's lazy pace. Maybe if you're playing the maps for the first time and don't know what to do.

The 27 demo was awesome too, looking forward to more of E3. I was wondering how you would handle 29 where it's possible for monsters to randomly teleport into a pit near the ssg.

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It happened to me, of course!! You may kill an imp there with rocket splash damage, but it is a waste, so I had to redo it.

In the speedyshare link you have an unfinished demo where this happened: http://speedy.sh/NYqRr/e29b98.lmp -skipsec 270, iddtx2, automap, look at the monster teleporter closets...

And in the attachment the final version in 9:58

et29x958.zip

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Andy Olivera said:

The longest level so far...

MAP12: 9:13

Some incredible work you've done Andy, and the last thing I'd like to do is piss on anything but you missed a monster there. I hope I'm wrong though, I played it twice through with PrBoom. M=1 and 99% kills.

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Yeah, but as for today, no-one found a way to kill the baron (thing 177) standing outside of the playing area :)

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vdgg said:

Yeah, but as for today, no-one found a way to kill the baron (thing 177) standing outside of the playing area :)

I'm very relieved to hear that. :)

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vdgg, I'm astounded that you can look at these maps and come up with efficient routes instead of just throwing up your hands in mind-boggled despair.

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vdgg said:

I must say this is what I call a properly playtested map.

Hahaha, I sure didn't think so when we played it in Coop and all players except one got stuck in the first room. The "abandon all hope" sign was never so appropriate. :P

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lol that was fast, both the demo and the amount of time after the 29 demo. Was that also reality? Looking forward to 26/25/24

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Just thought I'd stop by and say how awesome these new demos are. They fit perfectly with the rest of the collection; great work, vdgg!

I have to say, though, that it's a completely different experience watching these when you don't know the level like the back of your hand.

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@Memfis: big oops for me. Even though I didn't play it on coop, it must have been written somewhere before.
@ToD: et28uv is reality. I figured after 40 seconds without taking damage what it would not be too difficult, it's mainly avoiding my own splash damage.
@Andy: it took you a long time to reply in your own thread :) thanks!

MAP25: 6:55

et25x655.zip

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vdgg said:

MAP25: 6:55


Slightly confused about that ending. You don't seem to be using your leftover cell ammo and rockets.

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