First attempt demos [never played the map before]

Wait are you joking? So one takes you to 1% the other is home free? That's devious design you mad man!

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FDAs for cbspeed, seems like it's cb combo in here. No deaths.
Actually pretty good e1 replacement, considering the fact that I very rarely play D1 wads nowadays. Not sure if I am able to take on Concerned though, but we shall see.

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FDAs for Eternal's maps from freak4. Never played them before and was advised to do so. Liked map08 the most, though I guess I'm not the only one judging by demo table. Maps by other authors are... well, horrible, only 3EPHOEd's deserves some attention. Eternal surely did the most impressive work with the base given, and did it three times. Astonishing.

freak4-04-07-08_dem_fdas.zip

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List format:
PWAD - IWAD - year: final time - stats - deaths

  • DM_JAIL.WAD - D1 - 2001: 17:24 - 99/85 - 0
  • MEAT2.WAD - D2 - 1999: 12:13 - 97-n/a - 1
  • PE3_INCI.WAD - D1 - 2014:
    E3M1: 6:21 - 100/50 - 0
    E3M2: 14:59 - 98/85 - 0
    E3M3: 17:09 - 100/74 - 0
    E3M4: 9:17 - 100/80 - 1* (+bonus DNF with 11;)
    E3M5: 16:19 - 100/71 - 1
    E3M6: 29:54 - 100/70 - 0
    E3M9: 10:31 - 100/60 - 3
    E3M7: 27:13 - 100/100 - 0
    E3M8: 3:37 - 87-n/a - 7
  • ROHENH.WAD - D2 - 1996: 5:01 - 91/0 - 1
  • SIGHEH.WAD - D2 - 2009:
    MAP01: 6:36 - 100-n/a - 6
    MAP02: 8:17 - 112-n/a - 6
    MAP03: 9:45 - 128-n/a - 11
    MAP04: 7:31 - 100/50 - 13
    MAP05: 10:25 - 134-n/a - 8
  • SPAM20.WAD - D2 - 1996: 16:49 - 100-n/a - 2 (MAP01+MAP02 movie)
  • TCSAS.WAD - D2 - 1995: 12:58 - 98-n/a - 1
  • WICKED_2.WAD - D2 - 2002: 5:56 - 100-n/a - 3
All demos: n_a-fdas-dec19-2014.zip

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The Lost Episodes of DOOM (JPTR_V40.WAD) by Chris Klie & Bob Carter - FDAs for all 24 levels.

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FDAs for four WADs not on DSDA and one that is, but with a Legacy (ugh) demo.

  • AD_DEMO.WAD by Michael Hadjion and Adam Stolfo (1997):
    · MAP01 - 6:12 - 100/66 - 0 dth
    · MAP02 - 6:38 - 100/100 - 0 dth (a UV Max ;)
    · MAP03 - 6:15 - 100/50 - 1 dth
  • JSF01.WAD by Joe Fouch (1995) - 4:08 - 100-n/a - 0 dth
  • NJTOSS17.WAD by Enjay (2002) - 25:13 - 99/50 - 0 dth
  • SUBVERT.WAD by Bob Back (1995) - 19:08 - 100/80 - 2 dth
  • THEZOO.WAD by Jim Tanner (1996) - 14:24 - 100/0 - 1 dth
Does nobody record FDAs worth posting these days? There's the "Official thread to post demos to link to..." thread, of course, and it's nice to have FDAs for the latest WADs; but there are two problems with those FDAs
- the WADs are for the most part work in progress and links to them sometimes expire before you get to them
- the FDAs are often as disposable as the WADs, with no TXTs and no indication that they may be DNFs (and when they are it's like a "fuck you" to the viewer).

One - note I didn't say "the only one", that would be too depressing, wouldn't it - exception to that is dew's 200minvr FDA demopak. Great demos and extensive notes that almost trump the maps themselves. Seriously, that one should be on DSDA, next to the corresponding D2RELOAD, H'T and MLM sets.

n_a-fdas-feb27-2015.zip

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I can only repeat the old points I made in this thread. Back when the whole FDA thing started, there weren't many of them and it was exciting to see any, so posting a FDA always seemed like a nice thing to do. Nowadays a lot of people record FDAs and, well, noone is going to watch even 5% of them all anyway, so I feel like posting even more of my FDAs would be unnecessary and perhaps arrogant, especially if that stuff will go to DSDA and flood it with more lame slow demos. "Does nobody record FDAs worth posting these days?" - the problem is that nobody really knows what is worth posting, and I personally hesitate to make my own judgement and declare that my demos are awesome and people should watch them. So now I usually only post FDAs in the WADs & Mods threads because the authors might be interested in them.

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Never_Again said:

Does nobody record FDAs worth posting these days? There's the "Official thread to post demos to link to..." thread, of course, and it's nice to have FDAs for the latest WADs; but there are two problems with those FDAs
- the WADs are for the most part work in progress and links to them sometimes expire before you get to them
- the FDAs are often as disposable as the WADs, with no TXTs and no indication that they may be DNFs (and when they are it's like a "fuck you" to the viewer).

Speaking for myself, I'm generally not interested in speedrunning and demo collecting, so I'm only posting FDAs as an immediate feedback response for the authors, hoping in their potential usefulness in this regard (and nothing else). I don't even believe that such FDAs are worth preserving, but I do hope that they (at least) might be worth posting.

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Memfis said:

Nowadays a lot of people record FDAs and, well, noone is going to watch even 5% of them all anyway

What do you base this estimate on? Surely the numbers of downloads for the attachments in this thread and that other one don't bear it out.

Memfis said:

so I feel like posting even more of my FDAs would be unnecessary and perhaps arrogant, especially if that stuff will go to DSDA and flood it with more lame slow demos.

If everyone felt that way there would be no new demos at DSDA. What may seem like "lame slow demos" to you may be an excellent way for others to experience WADs without playing them themselves. Remember Opulent stating once he watched so many TNT runs he felt like he went through the whole game himself several time, which never actually did?

So I say bring the FDAs back and let the end user decide what's good and what's not. As for DSDA, "flooding" is a rather abstract concept for a site that is

Proudly hosting 36366 demos by 518 players on 2531 WADs

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I see no harm in uploading FDAs, but on the other hand the issue with unstable betas is pretty damning. More demos is good, but wad version clutter is bad. I wouldn't want to be the person who filters out "valid" FDA vs. the "temporary" ones, but if someone volunteers, I bet Andy wouldn't mind, heh.

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Should be simple enough: if the WAD makes it to /idgames, consider it the final version and post the FDA here. If the WAD is WIP or you don't want your FDA on DSDA for some reason, post in that other thread.

BTW, are you OK with your 200minvr set being subbed to DSDA? I can compile a TXT with your notes and a neat table.

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Yeah, I don't mind, especially if you're volunteering to do the bothersome bits. :D It never occurred to me that people would be interested in watching such a casual playthrough.

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Never_Again said:

If everyone felt that way there would be no new demos at DSDA.

Why? Typically if you beat an existing best time or record a speedrun on a wad that didn't have any beforehand, then you know that your demo is probably of some interest. That's a pretty good and simple criteria for deciding whether your speedrun is "worth uploading", I imagine many people from this subforum use it. With FDAs there's nothing like it, you have to somehow measure the awesomeness by yourself and, well, some demo recorders are humble people, like that Armadosia dude for example.

But in case someone is interested... Just for laughs I uploaded an archive with 3531 FDAs by me.

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@dew: done. I took a few slight editorial liberties with your text; have a look, see if anything's amiss.
The ZIP was generated using the Max Compression method to fit everything under the 204800 bytes attachment size limit. Works in WinZIP v9.0+ and 7-Zip, let me know if this doesn't work for you, I'll provide a legacy-format ZIP via MediaFire.

edit: updated the ZIP with a reference to TAS on MAP29 in TXT


@Memfis: it's like a late Christmas present, thank you. At 10 FDAs a day this collection should take a year to go through. A quick look through some of them tells me that quite a few of the WADs will be hard to track down; will you be ready to provide them should that happen? ;)

200minfda-dew.zip

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Memfis said:

Just for laughs I uploaded an archive with 3531 FDAs by me.


hurray, contains some unposted rage-quit demos on old bastard maps of mine :D

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Haha, I guess there might be some embarassing stuff... But I'm not going to sort through all of it. :D

N_A: sure, ask for anything you need but I might refuse if it's a privately shared wad of course.

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Memfis said:

Just for laughs I uploaded an archive with 3531 FDAs by me.

In relive03_mem_fda there is another weird occurence of a linedef activated by a projectile (arachnotron plasma in this case): the soulsphere pillar lowers "out of the blue", I tested it and it can lower by letting the arachnotron shoot straight ahead towards the yellow key (hope I'm being clear here). Most likely it doesn't save time in any speedrun, though.

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Never_Again said:

@dew: done. I took a few slight editorial liberties with your text; have a look, see if anything's amiss.
The ZIP was generated using the Max Compression method to fit everything under the 204800 bytes attachment size limit. Works in WinZIP v9.0+ and 7-Zip, let me know if this doesn't work for you, I'll provide a legacy-format ZIP via MediaFire.

The archive extracts okay with p7zip on Unix. Big thanks for the effort, I have no issues with the editing. Oh right, the last map30 demo is a segmented TAS. I mentioned it in the description, but it's omitted in the table.

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You mean MAP29? I didn't realize it was TAS from reading your notes, heh.
Attachment replaced. The change in TXT:

old: MAP29c|  1:30 |  94/100 |  0
new: MAP29c|  1:30 |  94/100 |  0 (segmented TAS)

vdgg said:

In relive03_mem_fda there is another weird occurence of a linedef activated by a projectile (arachnotron plasma in this case): the soulsphere pillar lowers "out of the blue"

That's odd. I thought this bug was fixed in v1.2?

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Random question: especially in FDAs, there can be times when the player stops for no apparent reason and just stands there, because he's looking at the map screen, but the demo doesn't record this.

I know that there is an unused bit in the standard Doom demo format (bit 6 of byte 3, to be precise) and I was wondering if there was any reason that ports could not use this to indicate that the map screen was being shown.

Like, if that bit is a 1 instead of a 0 as it normally is, just show the map screen for that tic. You wouldn't see the player scrolling around on the map, but at least you would know what he was doing at that moment. And it ought to be backward compatible.

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Two words: "FUCKINGAWESOME IDEA"!

Ling, you've been simply bursting with great ideas lately and - unlike so often happens in the commoonity - you actually implement some of them. Here's to hoping for a demo automap patch fro Prb+ and Choco from you.

And yes, you were right in wanting to make it a new thread first. This idea deserves its own spotlight.

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Linguica said:

Like, if that bit is a 1 instead of a 0 as it normally is, just show the map screen for that tic. You wouldn't see the player scrolling around on the map, but at least you would know what he was doing at that moment.

Or even better, when watching a demo where the player was looking at the automap, the sourceport would just display a small message "LOOKING AT MAP" in a place that doesn't obscure the watchers main view, so that the watcher can still freely do whatever he wants (switching between automap and the game, using demo tools etc).

Anyway, good idea.

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scifista42 said:

Or even better, when watching a demo where the player was looking at the automap, the sourceport would just display a small message "LOOKING AT MAP" in a place that doesn't obscure the watchers main view, so that the watcher can still freely do whatever he wants (switching between automap and the game, using demo tools etc).

Exactly what I told Ling on irc, haha. The spectator could already be on the automap, so simply switching to it could lead to a "soft desync" and confusion.

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I wholeheartedly support Linguica's idea. Actually this is probably the main reason I tend to neglect using the automap: I'm afraid that it will inconvenience the potential FDA viewer, so I usually only take small peaks while e.g. riding a lift and there is nothing to do anyway.

Nicely spotted on Relive map03, indeed probably not useful in this case but it's a reminder to keep an eye out for possibilities like this.

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