Speed of Doom demos (-complevel 9)

dew said:

nice demo, anima... and it makes an interesting point in okuplok's case when compared to his superhuman recording on this map.


Did Okuplok make a max demo on this map? I thought it was PL map 20 instead of SOD 20? Or was it something he uploaded onto Youtube but not here/dsda?

Edit: PL2

Share this post


Link to post

He did a max demo for SOD Map20 in which he barely got hit, posted on youtube, this is in fact the demo that got many 1337 runners their panties twisted in a bunch and was singled out as "evidence" for TAS.

Share this post


Link to post
Phml said:

He did a max demo for SOD Map20 in which he barely got hit

Well, the only time Okuplok got hit was intentional : it was the Arch-Vile blast needed to jump and take the BFG9000. Aside from that, he never got hit during the whole run. It indeed seems weird when you compare with Anima's demo.

Share this post


Link to post

Qaatar said:
Or was it something he uploaded onto Youtube but not here/dsda?

I think so... it's hard to recall now, after he made that 1337 panties-in-a-bunch flight from the scene, as Phml would put it.

Share this post


Link to post

As a result, I couldn't at all watch some his demos for SOD, including map 20. This is because I saw the incident in the forum after he deleted all videos.

Share this post


Link to post

http://neokotchka.net/dew/doom/okuplok-sod20max.flv
53 MB, be gentle to my bandwidth. :) salvaged from my cache folder after the incident. i guess it's not entirely fair to okuplok to distribute it openly, but at the very least more people can make up their mind on this case. as they say, once things reach the internet, they never go away.

Share this post


Link to post

Just wanted to state this even before watching (didn't see it before): if in fact he didn't get hit I can say it's very suspicious just from comparing to my experiences with the map during beta-testing.

Also, after watching ToD's and Okuplok's h232 demos I started practicing the new route for a bit, and once again, comparing his record run to my experiences and ToD's demo, the way things worked for him seemed, well, weird. Not enough to call him on it though.

Edit: Wow. That is one WTF inducing demo. I wouldn't mind seeing some parts of it on the automap, 2:28-2:29 and 6:01-6:06 in particular, as well as every other time when he's in view of the HK horde.

Watching it again reminded me of some words written by a classic:

Here are some practical tips: (...) soldiers & sergeants: it is often said that it is impossible to avoid their shots; this is not true. Try it with a soldier: stand in front of him and when he is about to shoot at you (just a few gameticks before) step aside (with strafe left/right) he will miss you. Same with sergeants but as they shoot more bullets at a time you have to make a bigger step. Of course, the timing is crucial and as there is a random element in DOOM it will not always work, but it is worth a try. (...)

Share this post


Link to post

lols

Yeah, Okuplok posted his hr2 map32 demo a couple days after gggmork posted a fail demo (a few days after mine) showing that strategy of letting most of the monsters out early (ggg said it took him lots of attempts). I tried that route but the success rate was hella low. And I tried for like a week using a slightly different route (letting all the monsters out early, except masterminds) but still with really low success rate. But yeah, like Belial said it's not proof. I haven't seen his sod map20 run though (I'm on dial-up).

Share this post


Link to post

I think attempting hr32 so much fried parts of my brain. If I'm gonna keep using keyboard only, I don't stand a chance against skilled mousers, possibly until I get a N-key rollover keyboard and optimize my key set up, like putting 180 flip in a less awkward spot and possibly being able to use sr50 more, or at least having seperate strafe keys.

I just realized something: doomguy only sees 1/4 of the screen (I measured it by marking landmarks while turning). No wonder some hidden monster is always eating my blind spot. Seems a human can see about 1/2 of the visual field, but it gets less and less clear away from the center. Might be interesting if you could play doom while seeing 180 or 360 degrees stretched out or panned somehow.

Share this post


Link to post
TimeOfDeath said:

I tried that route but the success rate was hella low.

Exactly, yet Okuplok seems all too willing in that demo to throw an excellent run away by charging into the first caco horde for no reason, as there's no gain whatsoever in choosing not to play that part safe. He's either got nerves of steel, too much time on his hands, or he knew something we don't.

Share this post


Link to post

MAP 20 UV-Max in 8:43


First exit. I haven't done a lot of attempts yet, so this run is uncouth in many points. I was able to reach the final area only about 5 sec slower than Okuplok's demo but I got the time which was 30 sec slower than his time. It's really terrible. I recoiled at a herd of cybies and used the safer way. In this demo, I received a lot of damage, didn't move smoothly, did a lot of mistakes, and did odd acts sometimes, unlike Okuplok. As a result, it's not a very fun demo.

I understand that I need more effort, but I don't know if I try this map again or not.

sd20-843.zip

Share this post


Link to post

Map 7 UV-fast in 14:19. Wanted to see if I could clear this map after a post in the SoD release thread. Managed to exit after ~ 1 hours worth of attempts.

Could still go a fair deal faster, perhaps a minute or so at least.

sd07f1419.zip

Share this post


Link to post

great demo, nice 1% moment!

Share this post


Link to post

map11 uv-speed in 1:31

a very hard run, so it's far from flawless. at least the table spot is filled. :p

sd11-131.zip

Share this post


Link to post
dew said:

ooops, forgot the bonus demo with the funny av jump!


lolz, I guess someone had that happen to them when testing the map ;P Nice real run.

Share this post


Link to post
dew said:

ooops, forgot the bonus demo with the funny av jump!


Hahaha...would've been cool if that was a viable shortcut option. Stupid linedef...>_>...

Guh, I've been slacking at this series...gotta get to work.

Share this post


Link to post

map31 uv-speed secret exit in 2:29

awesome map, awesome fun. this is first exit and looks raw.. someone to race me for knocking the time down? :)

sd31s229.zip

Share this post


Link to post

Map33 UV-Max (Invaild) in 7:48

Thought it was some bug or something, but it's obviously something I 've missed. Never known of the Archvile increasing the percentage thing.

sod33-748nevan.zip

Share this post


Link to post

This run is invaild as a UV-Max. You have to kill all monsters before fininshing a map, including enemies which are revived by a vile.

Share this post


Link to post

Ohh, the percentage count increased because of the Archvile? Never was aware of that, but thanks for telling me. I'll probably need to figure out where're the monsters I've missed.

Share this post


Link to post

map09 uv-speed in 1:24

monsters everywhere make speeding this map an uneasy task... be sure to watch this as a bonus. :)

sd09-124.zip

Share this post


Link to post

Nice demos guys! :-)

As usual, nice demos dew and love that jet li jump! I had a feeling when I read the txt file and you mentioned Jet Li, you'd do that crazy jump. ;-)

@Nevan: Bad luck mate, Map33 isn't very easy to do a run on, and you made it look simple. ;-) I do have a hint though, you don't need to kill the two archviles at the start as you will trigger a crusher at the near end that will kill them both. Should save several seconds.

Share this post


Link to post

Map31 UV-Max in 8:23

A little lazy with BFG aiming, but I'm happy with this.
Edit: Thanks Joshy! I'll retry a run of that soon using that tip.

sod31-823nevan.zip

Share this post


Link to post

SOD MAP20 Okuplok video
"Well, the only time Okuplok got hit was intentional : it was the Arch-Vile blast needed to jump and take the BFG9000. Aside from that, he never got hit during the whole run. It indeed seems weird when you compare with Anima's demo."

Even if he played with a Tools Assisted Port while recording the cheated demo... It would be VERY HARD to Not get hit more than once...
Think about it..... The sheer number of Hard enemies (archviles/cybies) in that level would make it almost impossible not to get hit more than once... Even if he used TAS...

Share this post


Link to post

In regards to MAP24: Hell's Honeycomb.

-Though VERY improbable, if the Arach nearest to the Red Key (the one that teleports to that same spot where the Cybie appears) happens to be standing on that very spot then the walls don't come down all the way. Meanwhile, once you kill said Arach, and those walls come down afterward, said walls never come back up and the newly warped Cybie remains trapped inside.

Besides that I've found at least 2 places where the map can generally be broken apart 'speed-wise'...but won't go into detail about those until either I finally produce a viable demo or allow frustration to settle in and move on to other waiting demo projects.

Attempting to END all Okuplok SOD20 talks as far as whether it's TAS-based origin or otherwise, despite being HIGHLY improbable and very dependent on player skill (as well as luck) I can see that this isn't TAS-based. Every enemy attack and projectile is avoidable with the right knowledge and experience of trajectory as well as projectile/attack speed (not to mention monster behavioral patterns and such). From what I've seen, Okuplok has a very in-depth knowledge of all of this as well as top tier execution...thus explaining his near-superhuman speed runs.

...call the explanation what you want...but it's all a matter of one's opinion. Back to work for me...I'm surprised no one has produced a Map26 UV-Max demo yet >_>

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now