Very nice, I'm sure I wouldn't be able to get that time - I have a habit of making maps that I just can't quite demo, either from lack of skills or lack of patience to play the same map more than 20 minutes without getting reckless. But anyway, reading your txt, how is rboom different from prboom? Besides not supporting extended nodes until map21, heh. And yeah I moved the arch-viles just to make it harder to kill them fast. But hey, you were still able to finish the map in under 2 minutes.

I was wondering when people would start posting demos for this again. It's probably not going to get reviewed until January at the current /newstuff chronicles rate, so probably not til then ... hmm.

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ArmouredBlood said:

Very nice, I'm sure I wouldn't be able to get that time - I have a habit of making maps that I just can't quite demo, either from lack of skills or lack of patience to play the same map more than 20 minutes without getting reckless. But anyway, reading your txt, how is rboom different from prboom? Besides not supporting extended nodes until map21, heh. And yeah I moved the arch-viles just to make it harder to kill them fast. But hey, you were still able to finish the map in under 2 minutes.

No man it's actually pretty easy to speedrun due to all the open space. You should try it. The monsters don't get in the way too much, in fact what gave me the idea to try was how I was able to run around the edge and through the moat pretty much unfettered.

I used to be able - well, almost - to do the same thing with map13 for similar reasons, except if you're not fast enough it gets utterly flooded with monsters. Also, since now it needs all six keys, I'd actually have to go in some of the more cramped buildings. That's put a speedrun of the map beyond me.

As for rboom, I get asked about this occasionally, I should put up a web page or something... There's not like one obvious thing I could point to and say "that's it's unique feature". I mean PrBoom v2.3 was quite different itself, it had what is basically an old version of Eternity's console in it, for instance. But it was full of bugs and never really completed. What I've done to it is mostly code cleanup and bug fixes, and some interface tweaks to reduce annoyance. For example, since this is a demos thread, I can do "-complevel boom" instead of having to remember any magic numbers :)

Phml said:

Did an UV speed using your route in 1:52 - simply because no head bobbing freaks me out. :P

Excellently done :) It's great how you could take my route and improve it within like an hour or so of my post, that shows how skilled you are I think.

  • I was a bit surprised to see that you stayed quiet for that long. I think you had a bit of trouble from the first two archviles as a result.
  • You skipped one of the teleporter lines! That's happened a lot to me but because it didn't happen yesterday I forgot to mention in my text file that I usually stop straferunning when approaching a teleporter.
  • Interesting how you went up the mountain from the west, you seemed to get through the crowd around the exit a lot faster too.
Anyway I'm pretty sure this thing could go to 1:45 or even 1:40 if the monsters cooperate with the player better.

BTW The reason I turn off bobbing: if you start firing a weapon when bobbing has moved it off centre, it kind of gets locked out of position until you stop. And this was somehow managing to throw my aim off :) That was years ago and since then I've just got used to feeling like I'm floating round maps on a hoverboard ;)

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I originally shot stuff but noticed staying peaceful for a while let me run through monsters easier (though not necessarily faster). Also I consider the first AV hit a speed boost to make up for my lack of SR50. :)

Agreed on teleporter, I always forget I should slow down before entering one.

Anyway, here's another UV speed for map15 in 1:38. This time I shoot the archies (except the blue key one that hit me - it usually gets into a fight with the mancubii which is why I don't bother shooting it) Using SR50 could get down that time further.

ng15-138.zip

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Ok, so I tried harder and came up with an exit in 1:35 on NG15. I assume SR50 worked at least part of the time because despite my trajectories being borked and the final part a little slower than with my previous run, the final time is better, and the route is (IIRC) identical. But... I really wouldn't know because I can't tell the difference, so it could also be luck. Is there a way to easily check if one is currently SR50ing or SR40ing ?

ng15-135.zip

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Very impressive NewGothic demos Phml, quite enjoyable. You move around as if on glass...

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Another UV Speed for NG15 in 1:32. Really nothing of interest, just me trying to get a better feel and balance with SR50.

ng15-132.zip

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1:32?? Haha man you've completely destroyed my effort :-P Keep it up :-)

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Keep it up :-)


And I did, even though I thought I was done. So thanks to you, here's another run in 1:29.

Still possibly ~5 seconds to save, with a second AV boost (the red key one) and better SR50 ? Not sure I want to try it. :P

ng15-129.zip

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Qaatar said:

I was asking if there is a reason why the Archie doesn't teleport. Didn't ask you to report anything...I simply wasn't sure if it was because of my route (i.e. some linedef didn't trigger), or if it is the wad's problem.


The sector surrounding the archvile isn't tagged so when you go for the red key it doesn't warp in with the other stuff. The arch is only marked for UV, so likely he finished the map on UV once or something and forgot it was supposed to warp in as the standard difficulty was going to be HMP, evidenced by the .txt and HMP demo he included, and also he said himself he speedmapped this (20-25 hours for something like this? believe me it's a speedmap ...). Easiest fix would be just removing the arch-vile entirely, would keep demo compatibility and since he never noticed it didn't warp in then I'd guess it would fit his vision of the map. But I never knew him, just speculation.

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@AB

Aha...thank you very much. :)

As far as editing the wad, I don't think that it's necessary or proper. Like vdgg said, there are tons of Max demos on DSDA without 100% kills that are treated as 100% due to some problem with the level/wad. I was merely wondering if it was my fault that the Archie didn't teleport. Now that I know that it's not, I can sleep easy. :)

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ArmouredBlood:
Easiest fix would be just removing the arch-vile entirely, would keep demo compatibility

Sadly not. If you take the monster out any existing demo would break almost immediately. One less thing calling P_Random means everything calling P_Random afterwards gets a different random number from when the demo was recorded... does that make any sense? I know what I mean :)

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RjY said:

Sadly not. If you take the monster out any existing demo would break almost immediately. One less thing calling P_Random means everything calling P_Random afterwards gets a different random number from when the demo was recorded... does that make any sense? I know what I mean :)


Ah yeah I forgot about that, I removed some non-monster things from a map once and it didn't mess up a demo so I thought if the nodes stayed the same it didn't matter, but yeah the random number generator would probably be off. But does that mean that the random#s are kept within the demo .lmp? It'd be impossible to sync every computer's rng with the demotaker's.

Also interesting to see such a heavy emphasis on NG map04 in here, must be the easiest one to UV max ;p

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ArmouredBlood said:

But does that mean that the random#s are kept within the demo .lmp? It'd be impossible to sync every computer's rng with the demotaker's.

No, because they are only pseudo random numbers. The game is completely deterministic: exactly the same actions will always lead to exactly the same outcome.

Boom demos do include a seed for the PRNG, which is needed for playback, but that is all.

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Also interesting to see such a heavy emphasis on NG map04 in here, must be the easiest one to UV max ;p


Easiest ? I don't know, man, I get crushed a lot during the first minute. Can't speak for j4rio though. :)

It's funny to see a topic popping up about flow in the general forum at the same time, as this map is a great example of good flow in my opinion, making it enjoyable to play. There's no dull moment, even the final horde fight remains smooth - and this is where I disagree with you on that other topic when you mention enemies aren't part of flow, if I understood your analogy right ; replace all these hellknights with barons, or add a few archviles, and it'd completely kill the flow of the map. Having less cell ammo would have the same effect. This fight works well because there's ample room to maneuver and basically infinite ammo, making it a matter of moving around, managing infighting and aiming BFG shots as efficiently as possible without being hindered in any way while doing so.

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Grazza said:

No, because they are only pseudo random numbers. The game is completely deterministic: exactly the same actions will always lead to exactly the same outcome.

Boom demos do include a seed for the PRNG, which is needed for playback, but that is all.


Oh now I see, I forgot doom used basically a random number table for its rng, so I presume the demo lmp records the start entry if it's not the start of the table.

Phml said:

Easiest ? I don't know, man, I get crushed a lot during the first minute. Can't speak for j4rio though. :)

Hahah, by easiest to demo I didn't necessarily mean easiest to play through, more it's bearable to keep restarting after 1-3 minutes or so and failing time after time until you get a better time. The longer length of the other maps definitely make this easier to keep trying on.

- and this is where I disagree with you on that other topic when you mention enemies aren't part of flow, if I understood your analogy right ; replace all these hellknights with barons, or add a few archviles, and it'd completely kill the flow of the map. Having less cell ammo would have the same effect.


Maybe I understated (and didn't give much thought to) how disturbing a large boulder in a river can be - you're not likely to row/paddle around a rockslide that basically leaves 5 inches of water flowing around it on either side. You'd have to TNT it, or drill it out or something. Like multiple applications of overwhelming force you'd use on multiple archviles in a rather open area. Though realistically a river will overflow its banks with a large boulder blocking the flow, you still could't pass over that except in the most extreme cases. It may not be part of what defines the river, but it certainly affects it.

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Phml said:

Easiest ? I don't know, man, I get crushed a lot during the first minute. Can't speak for j4rio though. :)


Well I die frequently in just about any part. :S

I'm playing with prb+ only around a week so I wasted quite some time with 3:51. I'm not feeling like waiting for another lucky try just by now. Mayhap next time ;).

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Phml said:

NG Map05 UV Speed in 0:52


This wad has some insane shit...

I thought ToD loved to put cybies everywhere in his maps, but AB takes it to another level.

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