The /newstuff Chronicles #114

Hyena said:

The review of TVR really made me want to download it, but it looks like you're a sort of "big picture" reviewer because there were all sorts of tiny insignificant details I would have picked apart to death just because I enjoy doing so.
Please tell me, by the way, which is the really weird level you were talking about. Was it map21?


Yes it was - I had to mention that one. (and I had to take a screenie of it too...)

As for being "big picture", it's because I prefer reviewing the wad as a whole (covering all of it, so people have a good idea of whether to play or not), rather than focusing on one or two little things. With single maps the little things can sometimes come through in the reviews, but with multi-map wads (especially episodes and megawads) there's not much room to talk about them.

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good job UD!

...(and I had to take a screenie of it too...)

You did: the third img in the review.

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well, don't forget that tvr is a megawad made for doom2.exe :)

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Hurr... maybe I am just too old but this time, I can't find any good wad in the /newstuff chronicles. Revolution!(tvr) is just too underdetailed and I think it wasn't put much effort into the levels and ammo/monster balance is really bad if you consider, that you could shoot every monster 5-6 times. Same goes to the Tower of WAR Demo thing. The author even used "SS Nazi" officers *argh*. Mock2 Teaser is... well... it is Mockery. You will play it one time and then put it back in your recycle bin because the wad and the idea behind it is absolutely crap.
And if Space Station Omega wouldn't be that hard to beat (I even didn't get out of the shio because of the radios; also take a look at forum thread),... well, I really don't want to flame anyone, I just want to make these reviews look not that bugfree at all, negative cricism fits sometimes without beeing offensive ;)

(Perhaps, you will read my criticism now every /newstuff chronicles :P)

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While the need for detail is fairly important in wads these days, it isn't everything. I had a great time playing TVR, and for me the fun factor is the most important thing. And don't forget it's for vanilla DooM 2. (hence the lack of visplane-breaking detail in many source port maps)

Szymanski said:

the screenies have been chosen well, there's some good bits and some bland bits.


Thanks. Incidentally, the choice of screenies were based on the main themes in the megawad: city, industrial and gothic. So I put one of each theme in (along with that weird map), rather than picking 4 detailed ones. I also try to get a mix of outdoor/indoor areas and open/confined spaces, too.

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I think no one can apoligize if he says, "it is just plain vanilla doom2.exe". On one hand, play "Phobos Anomaly Reborn", it also works with doom2.exe, on the other hand, everyone knows of todays nice editing sourceports (Legacy, ZDoom, EDGE) and they are not that hard to use if you put some time in reading editing faq's

@UltimateDoomer - Fun is a very important factor, you are right. Have you played the mock2 teaser? Was it "funny" (as it is supposed to be!)? Are you going to put this wad into your local doom directory where you also have the wads you like most?! (for example some gothic stuff or TeamTNT works) I don't think so!

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Tormentor667 said:

I think no one can apoligize if he says, "it is just plain vanilla doom2.exe". On one hand, play "Phobos Anomaly Reborn", it also works with doom2.exe, on the other hand, everyone knows of todays nice editing sourceports (Legacy, ZDoom, EDGE) and they are not that hard to use if you put some time in reading editing faq's


Err...isn't Phobos Anomaly Reborn a Boom-specific wad? Besides, play it with doom.exe and you won't get very far.


Fun is a very important factor, you are right. Have you played the mock2 teaser? Was it "funny" (as it is supposed to be!)? Are you going to put this wad into your local doom directory where you also have the wads you like most?! (for example some gothic stuff or TeamTNT works) I don't think so!


Err...given that I reviewed it and took screenies of it I think I did play it somehow (btw there isn't a mock 2 teaser, it's mock 1)

And no, it won't be kept in my DooM 2 folder that long, but it has served it's humourous purpose (and I don't have much gothic stuff in there, it's mostly modern/tech stuff)

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It isn't the gothic thing at all, you know what I mean ;)
You are right, Mock can be humerous but it really doesn't take a lot of effort to create something like this.

Okay, Phobos Anomaly is Boom but do you think if you subtract the boom effects and a bit of detail from it, it will be as bad as TVR?

The problem I have is not, that noobs and newcomers get a good review on their wads (almost without any criticism!), the problem is, that they get a rating which isn't fair compaired to the ratings of other wadders, you know!

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Ultimate DooMer said:

Err...isn't Phobos Anomaly Reborn a Boom-specific wad? Besides, play it with doom.exe and you won't get very far.


yes it is, and some of the effects are busted in zdoom. Oh yeah, it's one of the best wads I've ever played.

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Tormentor667 said:

It isn't the gothic thing at all, you know what I mean ;)
You are right, Mock can be humerous but it really doesn't take a lot of effort to create something like this.


Actually, you're wrong there - it can take quite a bit of effort to come up with something intentionally bad like that. One of my Mock 2 maps took me 4 days to complete. (although I focused on humour and silliness rather than total crapness)


Okay, Phobos Anomaly is Boom but do you think if you subtract the boom effects and a bit of detail from it, it will be as bad as TVR?


That's like saying "take all the ZDoom effects from Dark 7 and it'll be just like any doom2.exe wad" The features are what make wads like P:AR and Dark 7 how, and that's what they were invented for in the first place. (and in this case I like TVR better than P:AR anyway, although they're both great wads)


The problem I have is not, that noobs and newcomers get a good review on their wads (almost without any criticism!), the problem is, that they get a rating which isn't fair compaired to the ratings of other wadders, you know!


Again, that depends on individual tastes - if you prefer detail over everything else (which you do as far as I can tell) then a lot of newbie maps will seem crap to you. If you prefer the fun factor, then wads like TVR would seem great to you, perhaps more so than high-detail wads like P:AR.

And besides, everyone rates wads differently, and those differences could be large - which is precisely why we don't use a scoring system in our reviews (even though we have the option of doing so).

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I like Tvr!. It certainly has its own particular style, relatively varied yet consistent. The areas generally "describe" places without putting too much weight on realism and instead on a nicely flowing layout. It's relatively easy, but in a well planned way (making it fun along the way.) We've seen the demos of the individual maps... it would probably be worthy of at least a speed movie (and a max maybe... it would probably not take that much work, compared to most other megawads.)

The main difference between WADs like Tvr! and P:AR is that the first is likely to attract playes, and the second, designers. The fact that a WAD took a lot of work to do doesn't necessarily imply it is better than another that was made faster or with more ease. We can acknowledge the work put into something, and even say that it's quite a feat, but when judging the add-on for a game will will also look at how the add-on does justice to the game, as such.

Technical excellence can be admirable, but it's not everything. For instance, I'll admit Yngwie Malmsteen is a very skilled musician, yet I'm not really a fan of his music... and it sure as hell isn't something good to dance to.

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TVR! is reather good, but not great great.

I found teh secret levels w00t! I'm around map 18 afaik.

I started playing empyre.wad which, despite a poor first map, has been real good old fashioned fun.

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Heh, I've been playing around more with the decaldef lump, and I'm gonna try to make rocket holes say "Epyo" =D

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eh, if you have the time. Anyway, check the page now :)

btw, 1337 screenie.

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I go fix it.

EDIT: work now?

EDIT: EDIT: oh I found the problem. My link was messed. 'Tis fixed...

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You just love plastering your name everywhere eh? :P

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Hyena said:

Space Station Omega alone kicks more ass than a 100-donkey melee.

That quote's gonna have to make its way in to the next map's accompanying .txt file methinks :)

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@Ultimate Doomer - Detail isn't the one and only thing for me, a good wad needs a certain mix of all (detail, fun, etc.) and this is why I don't think that nor Mockery neither TVR is a well-done wad.
For sure, you say, it took you about 4 days to create the Mock 2 but compare it with the time, you had to invest in one of your "License to Speel Doom" maps (because they don't look like a 4-day work!).

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[quote]ROFL. I love you to.
Do you recognize a Star Wars (Return of the Jedi)-quote when you read one?

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Han Solo said:

Threepio, you tell that slimy piece of worm-ridden filth he'll get no such pleasure from us. Right?

Chewbacca said:

Nyerrrrrrgh



As for decal limits, unless you changed the Zdoom defaults, its 1024.

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Tormentor667 said:

@Ultimate Doomer - Detail isn't the one and only thing for me, a good wad needs a certain mix of all (detail, fun, etc.) and this is why I don't think that nor Mockery neither TVR is a well-done wad.
For sure, you say, it took you about 4 days to create the Mock 2 but compare it with the time, you had to invest in one of your "License to Speel Doom" maps (because they don't look like a 4-day work!).

You seem to forget the point behind *Mockery. It mocks all good wads while being as playable and fun as them at the same time. (I think)
It's also to abuse all of Zdoom's features, and have a good time with it.

And TVR was very fun; it still is. IMO it was quite detailed, balanced and overall good. And, it was done in what, 2001? Also consider that it was done by ONE person. Lets see you throw together a megawad ALONE and of such quality.

Think before you criticize. But hey, just it's your opinion.

*I'm wrong, it's MOCK2. Sometimes I'm a confused little bastard.

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