Doom Movie Progression

That was obviously a statement of opinion sarge, and not what I was referring to. Most of what they're saying is quite logical.

Nightmare, just because our reasons aren't good enough for you doesn't mean they aren't good enough for us. I'm surprised you're defending this pile of shit, as a doomer. For the last half year we've been getting information that has led us to believe thorougly that this movie will suck. Everytime you've defended it. Considering the facts (yes, facts, my friend) regarding this movie, we have every reason to say it will suck. Any chance it had of breaking the "game-to-movie" curse are gone. This is not Doom. This is Resident Evil in Space featuring Doom 3 look-alike monsters (supposedly, we'll see how far that goes). I believe we're the ones that should be telling you, that you are the one whom needs a realistic reason for your opinion and thoughts on this. The facts are there, why can't you accept them? Is this whole act just some way of holding yourself back from the true realization of how bad this movie is going to be, keeping yourself from throwing an inevitable shitfit over it or feeling an extreme amount of disappointment? You might as well be ready now, than leave the theater pissed off and come back here to all of us saying we told you so.

Dodge said:

And, as it was already mentioned above, the reason it took so long for the guys at id to finally approve of this movie was because every other script sent to them in the past was horrible, and now they like this one.

Is that supposition, or has there been a statement from id that they actually like the plot? Is it clear how much control they have over it, or what the financial implications of them completely preventing the film from going ahead (assuming they have that power) would be?

Joel: I don't think NiGHTMARE has been all that logical on this topic. As far as I can make out, he has assumed thoughout that everyone with low expectations for the movie is basing their views on the fake interview, rather than on the comments made by Callaham himself in his open letter. I couldn't care less one way or the other, but I can quite understand people reading the open letter and as a result fearing a poor outcome for the movie.

Xenphire said:

This is Resident Evil in Space featuring Doom 3 look-alike monsters

Please, let Re rest in peace. The movies raped the games so bad it doesn't deserve to be mentioned anywhere now. As one good reviewer said:
"The movies shit on everything Mikami worked so hard on all these years."

When I watched the RE2 special feature on how hard they worked on getting their zombies to look and act the way they did, and that they paid "choreographers" to make them act that way, shit man I laughed so hard I got a cramp in my side. I'm glad I dubbed it. It's hilarious.

Grazza, most of Nick's statements have a great deal more logic than 90% of the posts about this movie. They're not "fearing a poor outcome", they're calling it shitty without even seeing it, long before Dave's letter, long before the rumours of the plot change. That's just stupid. Sure, some of the signs aren't promising, but even if the resemblance to Doom is cursatory at best, this movie has every chance of being a good piece of brain-dead action. Just because it doesn't follow Doom word for word doesn't mean it will be bad. Don't get me wrong, a closer interpretation would be better, but a good movie is a good movie.

I'd already posted a comment similar to Dodge in another thread, that the whole virus concept might be a red herring, not only for us but most importantly the characters in the movie. They think they're up aganist sick guys, but then the truth slowly comes out. Bascially, the thing will be either a prequel to the events of Doom 3 or a side story a la Opposing Force. At the very least there are going to be Imps in the movie, so I'm betting more on this outcome that the "RE rip-off" theory.

Nobody but the filmmakers have the full story. Experience has taught me to not trust media reports at all. Even David's letter was clearly holding things back, and given the unjust flak he's copped I can hardly blame him for his attitude.

If you go into a movie with negative preconceptions, your chances of being impressed are about the same as me marrying Laetita Casta. Lighten up and give it a chance. Give yourself the opportunity to be surprised.

And if you go into it expecting something that isn't crap, you'll walk out hating it even more. I don't know about anyone else but I'd rather watch a bad movie assuming it's bad so I can laugh about how bad it is and at least still be mildly entertained, instead of watching it frustrated that I'd waste two hours of my life on such a turd.

Anyway, my disinterest in a Doom movie is far more fundamental than whether or not it's a good movie. If the plot takes after Doom at all it's going to take after Doom III, which I find an even more sickening idea than this movie, know nothing about, and have absolutely no interest in. And if by some chance it were to take off the Doom storyline, the writers would soon discover Doom barely had a storyline and make up 99% of it. Since this movie is being made as a promotion for Doom III, it's most likely going to be marketed towards American teenage boys, which I'm sure you're all aware are not the brightest bunch. Since this is their target audience, it will be dumbed down to reflect that audience, just as everything else is. Not to mention I don't like any sci-fi/action movies whatsoever, or for that matter any movies based off a game, whether I've played the game or not. So whether or not you wish to express optimism in the project is up to you, but the only way I'd enjoy this movie is if it's bad enough I can write a 12 page critique on. And I have to say, I'm quite optimistic that this movie will be that bad.

Well said Badly.

sargebaldy said:
Anyway, my disinterest in a Doom movie is far more fundamental than whether or not it's a good movie. If the plot takes after Doom at all it's going to take after Doom III, which I find an even more sickening idea than this movie, know nothing about, and have absolutely no interest in.

That's like a bulwark against any bad effects of "bastardization." It's already corrupt anyway. It would probably suck more if it were something faithful to DOOM 3, but instead apparently they're just using the franchise in general... why would the producers want to hype the game? They're just using a reputable name to base their movie on. If you see how it's being presented, it's clear that they don't care too much about where they get their references:

Universal Studios said:
When the home-computer game "Doom" was first launched in 1993, no one could have forseen the legion of fans it would create and the mania surrounding its every new permutation. "Doom" and its successive installments, have transfixed gamers worldwide[...]

Heh, whoever wrote that probably doesn't know the difference between DOOM, Heretic, and the Quakes.

The D&D movie adaptation was probably one of the lamest ever, yet I was sort of amused by it, even if I look back (I caught it on TV a short time ago) and see how pathetic it is; but having played D&D a lot in the past made me unconcerned when I saw it at the theatre... I'm sure the same will happen here. The movie can't touch the game I play. It's not the same thing, nor any reason for concern. Hating the movie would be akin to hating source based engine modifications or DOOM 3 just because they aren't DOOM.

myk said:

why would the producers want to hype the game?

I don't mean that so much as they're just trying to ride on whatever steam Doom III has given the name. This project wouldn't have suddenly arisen from the ashes if the new game had never came out, since their target audience is teenagers and nowadays most of them haven't even played the original Doom. Since the name is the marketing "hook", they wouldn't have attracted much interest before Doom III brought the game's name back into public recognition among that demographic.

Xenphire said:

Nightmare, just because our reasons aren't good enough for you doesn't mean they aren't good enough for us. I'm surprised you're defending this pile of shit, as a doomer. For the last half year we've been getting information that has led us to believe thorougly that this movie will suck. Everytime you've defended it. Considering the facts (yes, facts, my friend) regarding this movie, we have every reason to say it will suck.

... The facts are there, why can't you accept them?

I have accepted the facts, thank you very much. This is what is 100% definite:

- The location the movie was filmed in (Prague).
- The identies of the cast (Karl Urban, The Rock, Rosamund Pike, etc).
- The identies of most of the crew.
- Neither the studio nor the writer have officially released any plot details whatsoever, so everything you'll read in this regards is either hear'say or lies.
- Yes, this includes the IMDB description about "planet Olduvai". Plot summaries for unreleased films on that site have been known to be utterly wrong before.
- There will be some variations from the plot of the games, but nothing has been officially said about what these differences actually are.
- At lest four imps, a demon and a baron will be amongst the creatures present (majorly pwning the people who whined about the film only featuring zombies).
- One part of the movie will involve chasing an imp around a sewage system.
- There won't be a love story (cheesy or otherwise) going on, because the two main characters are siblings (straight from the real Dave Callahan).

Is this whole act just some way of holding yourself back from the true realization of how bad this movie is going to be, keeping yourself from throwing an inevitable shitfit over it or feeling an extreme amount of disappointment? You might as well be ready now, than leave the theater pissed off and come back here to all of us saying we told you so.

*Sigh* Must I really repeat myself for what seems like the dozenth time?

I am not saying this movie won't be terrible. I'm saying that virtually all of the reasons people have given for why they think Doom the movie will be terrible are based on lies, half-truths, rumours and contradictions.

At present I'm keeping an open mind - I have no idea whether the movie will be absolutely amazing, whether it will be the worst thing ever to be shown in the history of cinema, or somewhere in between. Present me with some cold, hard facts as to why the movie will be bad, and perhaps I will change my mind. And no "teh R0ck sux0rz!!11111" doesn't count.

sargebaldy said:

And if you go into it expecting something that isn't crap, you'll walk out hating it even more.

Wrong. If you expect something to be crap, you will end up subconsciously convincing yourself that it's crap even if it's not.

If you go into something with an open mind, your resulting opinion is far more likely to reflect the actual experienced rather than any pre-concieved notions you held before even beginning the experience.

Grazza said:

I don't think NiGHTMARE has been all that logical on this topic. As far as I can make out, he has assumed thoughout that everyone with low expectations for the movie is basing their views on the fake interview, rather than on the comments made by Callaham himself in his open letter. I couldn't care less one way or the other, but I can quite understand people reading the open letter and as a result fearing a poor outcome for the movie.

Pretty much every single hater has based their expectations on supposed plot details. Since no plot details have been officially released, I'm sure you can see why I've said so many people are basing their opinions on non-facts.

I have read the open letter myself, and don't see what the problem is.

"the screenplay I wrote DOES differ in a number of ways from the games" - well of course, in the games there's only one main character. A film with only a single character in it would get pretty damned boring pretty damned fast. Also, clearly the film isn't going to follow exactly the same progression as the games - that would make for one of the longest films ever made! Different locations will be used, people are going to split up, and so on.

"But it should be mentioned that it was never the goal of anyone involved in this film, from myself and the producers to the studio to the guys at id, to make a direct film adaptation of the game(s)." - again that should be blatantly obvious. As I said, you can't make a film with only one character, and you also can't make a film which consists entirely of shooting monsters and collecting keycards/using PDAs to solve puzzles. A game cannot possibly be turned into a film if you insist on it being a 'direct adaption'.

"The thought process has always been to create an extension of the Doom universe that will give fans an interesting new take on the themes that they've come to enjoy in the game." - many Doom add-ons have seen hellspawn invade locations other than Phobos, Deimos, Mars, and Earth. Heck, one of the best loved add-ons is the Darkening Episode 2, and that's set in an alien base! I fail to see the problem (beyond sheer nitpickyness) in having the Hellspawn invade some planet outside of our own solar system... that is, if the Olduvai thing doesn't turn out to be utter garbage.

"Let me assure you, though, that the themes and elements that you love about Doom are ALL represented strongly in the film... just with some new twists." - what is one of the most important, major theme of Doom? Hell. Callahan just said that ALL the themes from the games will be in the movie. To me, that sounds like a confirmation that the creatures in the movie WILL be from Hell.

As for the 'new twists'... well, as I already suggested, the heroes could spend most of the film thinking they're fighting mutants, only to discover near/at the end that the creatures are beings from/created by Hell itself.

I dont know if it has been said, but i dont have time now to read the whole thread.
I ahve looked at the "spring" and on the coming soon site for doom 3 UP clearly states that the movie is based on doom 3.
That means to me:
- Hellspawn
- HELLspawn
- HELLSPWAN!!! ;)
- One unnamed hero beating them to crap, or did he get a name somewhere and i just didnt got it? Ok, in the movie he will most certanly get a name.
- Our most 'beloved' Dr. Betruger will be there
- The almighty Cyberdemon will be there!

So, let it come and ill have my fun.

NiGHTMARE said:

Wrong. If you expect something to be crap, you will end up subconsciously convincing yourself that it's crap even if it's not.

I agree with Baldy. It's good to see movies you know will be bad than to see a movie that you want to be good but ends up being bad. It just pisses you off.

NiGHTMARE said:
I'm saying that virtually all of the reasons people have given for why they think Doom the movie will be terrible are based on lies, half-truths, rumours and contradictions.

Are you blind, or do you selectively read what pleases you ignoring the rest?

At present I'm keeping an open mind - I have no idea whether the movie will be absolutely amazing, whether it will be the worst thing ever to be shown in the history of cinema, or somewhere in between. Present me with some cold, hard facts as to why the movie will be bad, and perhaps I will change my mind. And no "teh R0ck sux0rz!!11111" doesn't count.

Read my above statement.

Wrong. If you expect something to be crap, you will end up subconsciously convincing yourself that it's crap even if it's not.

That's probably the worst logic I've seen on this thread yet. Why throw one's self into denial and set one's self up for a huge disappointment rather than accept the facts ahead of time and save a large amount of disappointment?

Pretty much every single hater has based their expectations on supposed plot details. Since no plot details have been officially released, I'm sure you can see why I've said so many people are basing their opinions on non-facts.

There are no supposed details, our opinions are based on facts given to us, that you personally do not wish to acknowledge as "real" because it does not please you. Get it straight. You act like this is all some huge conspiracy theory where everything that doesn't please you is a probable lie.

"But it should be mentioned that it was never the goal of anyone involved in this film, from myself and the producers to the studio to the guys at id, to make a direct film adaptation of the game(s)." - again that should be blatantly obvious.

You left out the part where he talked about how they've bastardized his work meaning it's gone for the worse and they've completely taken his idea and thrown it away. You do realize he's no longer in charge of what happens with the Doom movie anyway, right? Because what Callhan said and was doing, at this point, really doesn't mean anything. He's said himself that they're screwing it up, and that he is no longer in control. Why quote him?

As for the 'new twists'... well, as I already suggested, the heroes could spend most of the film thinking they're fighting mutants, only to discover near/at the end that the creatures are beings from/created by Hell itself. [/B]

That's what you'd like to happen, but that doesn't mean it will.

Xenphire said:

Are you blind, or do you selectively read what pleases you ignoring the rest?

As it happens, I actually am blind in one eye. Though I fail to see the relevance to the situation, since my good eye is capable of reading just fine. As for selectively reading what pleases me and ignoring the rest, that's precisely what most of the movie haters appear to be doing.

Read my above statement.

Ditto.

That's probably the worst logic I've seen on this thread yet. Why throw one's self into denial and set one's self up for a huge disappointment rather than accept the facts ahead of time and save a large amount of disappointment?

Yes, why would someone throw themselves into such denial? I'm afraid I don't know the answer to that, since I'm not a psychiatrist... but the fact is a heck of a lot of people a guilty of doing it.

If you've never done it yourself, then you're rather fortunate, but I would like to point out that this is not something which one does deliberately - it's an entirely subconscious process.

I myself try to keep an open mind, but am guilty of letting preconcieved notions cloud my judgement on more than one occassion.

There are no supposed details, our opinions are based on facts given to us

So now you speak for every single person who thinks the Doom movie will be bad? Personally I would never be so bold.

How then, would you explain the once widely believed "fact" that the movie focused on a modern-day SWAT team, fighting against an army of zombies created by some kind of virus? That is just one example of a "supposed detail", one which has already been proven as incorrect.

For a time, the IMDB description said the movie was set on Phobos rather than Olduvai, strong evidence that the current IMDB description isn't neccessarily accurate either.

that you personally do not wish to acknowledge as "real" because it does not please you. Get it straight. You act like this is all some huge conspiracy theory where everything that doesn't please you is a probable lie.

Instead of just claiming there are facts which I refuse to acknowledge as "real" and suggesting I think there's some kind of conspiracy, perhaps you would care to provide me with a few examples of facts which I don't wish to acknowledge?

BTW if someone believes in a conspiracy theory, it's likely to generate intense emotions in that person. "Keeping an open mind" as I'm doing regarding the movie, is not an intense emotion.

Perhaps you classify absolutely everything into two categories, i.e. "things I love" and "things I hate", but you ought to be aware that other people use other categories, such as "things I find okay", "things that could be slightly better", "things I have no real opinion about", etc.

You left out the part where he talked about how they've bastardized his work meaning it's gone for the worse and they've completely taken his idea and thrown it away.

They've changed the film from what he intended it to be, and he personally thinks its worse. You seem to be forgetting that Dave Callahan's opinions are not the same as those of every single Doom fan in existence.

There are many good, great and even classic films which are nothing like the writer intended for them to be. There are also many absolutely appalling films which are exactly like the writer intended for them to be.

You do realize he's no longer in charge of what happens with the Doom movie anyway, right? Because what Callhan said and was doing, at this point, really doesn't mean anything. He's said himself that they're screwing it up, and that he is no longer in control. Why quote him?

If you honestly believe someone who's never been involved in the production of a movie before, is capable of being the most important person in the production of a movie, all I can say is that I strongly disagree.

That's what you'd like to happen, but that doesn't mean it will.

It also doesn't mean that it won't.

Grazza said:

Is that supposition, or has there been a statement from id that they actually like the plot?

Well, I'm just basing what I said on what I've heard Todd Hollenshed say every month or so saying stuff like "we like the direction this is going" and yada yada yada. I could always be wrong.

And I just thought of something in regards to what we know about the plot; perhaps all of what we've been told about the monsters being mutants IS true. But the catch is that the mutants are being made as a by-product or secondary cannon fodder by some higher force or whatever.

I don't know, at this point I'm almost talking out of my ass.

NiGHTMARE said:

As it happens, I actually am blind in one eye. Though I fail to see the relevance to the situation, since my good eye is capable of reading just fine.

Oh Shit! Game, set, match!

Dodge said:

And I just thought of something in regards to what we know about the plot; perhaps all of what we've been told about the monsters being mutants IS true. But the catch is that the mutants are being made as a by-product or secondary cannon fodder by some higher force or whatever.

Isn't that what the possessed humans were in the original games? They weren't FROM Hell, but merely corrupted by it. The other monsters, the Imp, the Demon, Baron of Hell etc, were probably meant to be demons that came directly from Hell, but as far as we know, that might not be the case. We are never really told what creatures were hellspawn and which were merely corrupted/mutated beings.

As for the movie, I refuse to comment or make a decision on it. So little is known about it, and so many opinions are directly linked to the supposed "plot" of the film and how it will turn out, that it's hard, if not impossible, to seperate fact from fiction. It is the safest approach not to assume anything until their is sufficient evidence to come to an educated conclusion.

Lutrov71 said:

I agree with Baldy. It's good to see movies you know will be bad than to see a movie that you want to be good but ends up being bad. It just pisses you off.

that's how i enjoyed AvP. i wasn't expecting it to be much, and i got what i expected. i had fun with it. a friend of mine bitches endlessly about it, saying it raped two good franchises at once, but i disagree. alien resurrection raped the alien franchise long before AvP ever showed up.

dethtoll said:

alien resurrection raped the alien franchise long before AvP ever showed up.

Well said.

Jehar said:

Say what you will about bison... but cammy was hot.

Raul Julia was the sole redeeming part of that horrible movie.

And Kylie Minogue is fucking old.

Uh, she was only 26 when Street Fighter was made. I wouldn't call that "fucking old".

dethtoll said:

that's how i enjoyed AvP. i wasn't expecting it to be much, and i got what i expected. i had fun with it. a friend of mine bitches endlessly about it, saying it raped two good franchises at once, but i disagree. alien resurrection raped the alien franchise long before AvP ever showed up.

IMO Alien 3 raped it long before Alien Resurrection. and that's how I enjoyed both Aliens resurrection and AvP. I'd probably enjoy Terminator 3 also if I saw it cause I don't expect anything from it.

kristus said:

IMO Alien 3 raped it long before Alien Resurrection.

no it didn't. alien 3 was nowhere near as bad as everyone keeps saying it is. if nothing else, it's infinitely better than alien resurrection. alien resurrection is a god damn fanfic. the series, or at the very least ripley's part of the story, should have ended with a3. you know they're milking a series when they have to fucking resurrect the main character just to keep it going. i'm sorry, but joss whedon is a fucking hack. whoever came up with the idea to permit the guy who wrote buffy of all things to write alien resurrection should be dragged out into the street and beaten severely before being run over by a 1982 Z28 driven by ridley scot and stalin's corpse before being shot repeatedly with rocksalt and bees.

ahem. rant over.

Yeah, 'cos we all know people who make things we don't like deserve to be beaten to a bloody pulp, or even killed for their sins.

I mean, creating a bad film is obviously far worse a crime than rape, assault, burgalry, etc.

saying a movie will suck and wishing horrible things upon the people responsible for it without actually seeing the movie first is fundamentally different from actually watching the movie THEN wishing horrible things upon the people responsible.

that said, i still watch the damn thing because i'm that dorky. i just get mad when people act like it's better than alien 3.

dethtoll said:
no it didn't. alien 3 was nowhere near as bad as everyone keeps saying it is. if nothing else, it's infinitely better than alien resurrection.

I don't think it was bad overall... but it sure was pointless. It had some okay design elements, but it added nothing. I saw it more than once but keep having a hard time remembering it.

alien resurrection is a god damn fanfic. the series, or at the very least ripley's part of the story, should have ended with a3.

With Aliens, but who cares... they can create an Aliens porn movie for all I care.

you know they're milking a series when they have to fucking resurrect the main character just to keep it going.

They were already milking it in Aliens. Actually, I noticed (but not initially,) that the fourth movie had some amusing parodying elements, and overall Ripley was the best character in the movie. Many elements in Alien Ressurection were dumb, but the ones that played with the Aliens theme itself weren't that bad.

The people annoyed with this DOOM movie are probably taking it seriously, or something.

My main problem with Alien 3 is that I keep expecting Andrews to either suddenly bring out his P.E. whistle, or start off some Monty Python-esque medieval sketch :P.

Aliens 3 wasn't based on the original script either. If you search the internet you can find the first script, and it's a hell of alot different. It involves Ripley and crew arriving at a space station and the scientists there cloning te aliens from material that was stuck on Bishop. Needless to say all hell breaks loose.

My main beef with Alien 3 is that they had to completely reverse directions in terms of the story that the first two movies had built up. Keep Ripley alive, but kill off the other two characters had become favorites of the series' fans.

I've read an early version of the Alien 3 script that takes place on that space station thing where Ripley was at the beginning of the second movie. Hicks and Newt have a much larger role in that one, as they're not killed off before the movie even starts. Just reading the script, it seemed like a far better idea than what they ended up coming out with. I wonder why they didn't develop that any further?