ZDoom 2.1.0 Released

sounds like you have no clue whats been going on with zdoom

TDA: I don't recall trolling or doing anything of the sort in that post. I simply spoke my opinion, and laid out what I feel are well thought points. Be aware that this is Doomworld and not zdoom.org, so differing opinions are allowed here. Oh wait you're ignoring me.

EDIT: And AlexMax the entire 2.0.9x series was supposedly an "experimental" series, though due to the substantial amount of new features it contained it was adopted by the mainstream.

HobbsTiger1 said:

TDA: I don't recall trolling or doing anything of the sort in that post. I simply spoke my opinion, and laid out what I feel are well thought points. Be aware that this is Doomworld and not zdoom.org, so differing opinions are allowed here. Oh wait you're ignoring me.

It was a counter-point against the last point, the "motherfucking KDiZD" part. You can easily ignore Torm and anyone who "rams ZDoom down your throat".

Also, most maps in the archive are designed for vanilla.

I hate not writing essays in this thread.

1) I swear quite frequently. If it bothers you, sorry but really, deal with it.

2) No it is most certainly not hard to ignore when tormentor, and others choose to propagandise. If it were I would not be the only one that has a problem with it.

3) No shit most levels in the archive are for vanilla. What the fuck does that have to do with anything.

indeed most recent stuff is for a port of some sort

just gotta swallow that most wads are for zdoom compatible ports (or boom compatible, which near all ports support), whether people like it or not. its the most advanced one for mapping. tough shit, get used to it :)

this is the way the doom comminity is going after 13 years. if you want to live in the past and continue playing vanilla doom

what the hell is stopping you

The point is that ZDoom is not rammed down your throat like you say it is. Granted the archives date back a long time but still the majority of maps produced are for vanilla ports if not BOOM.

And I also swear quite frequently as well so I don't take offense to it. Trust me, I would've posted earlier and if I had a problem with strong language (Not to mention cut it out of that mini-quote).

HobbsTiger1 said:

There was a coop game DomRem, Chrono_Teeth, and I once played. Alien Vendetta was the wad, ZDoom 2.0.63a was the port (just for reference). Chrono was the most godawful bouncy thing you can ever imagine. He jumped pretty much all the time, sometimes jumping into us, jumping where he shouldnt be, etc. This made some maps quite unfun, being that we were yelling at chrono a lot, or whatnot, and he had shortcuts and advantages he certainly shouldnt have, killing gameplay. Mind you we could have turned on the nojump dmflag but the example is a valid answer to your question.

Personally, I'd class that as being closer to an individual playing than different people. If a bunch of people are playing the same game, and using different features without agreement, then clearly it's going to get silly. If I couldn't agree a way of playing a multi-player game with all parties, I wouldn't play. It would just be annoying. If we had agreed a style of play and then people couldn't resist ignoring it, and wouldn't change their behaviour, I'd quit. What would be the point in carrying on. For the record, I do think that the best way to enforce compliance with rules and conventions of a MP game is by using flags to allow/disallow certain features - especially for open games where the players don't necessarily know each other.

So often, though, I see people making comments clearly indicating that they are upset by a person sitting in their home, on their computer, playing a SP game and jumping in a level where it wasn't intended. I have no idea if that bothers you, but clearly it bothers some people and I simply can't understand why.

Hobbs: I take it you've never played in ST with Chrono: It's that sort of behaviour and the Daisy skin (A skin that I despise the use of and disable if I could).

TheDarkArchon said:

(A skin that I despise the use of and disable if I could).

Allow cheat skins: off. Duh.

TheDarkArchon: (in reference to zdoom being shoved down our throat, so to speak) I'm not talking about the archive. Pay attention to the forums. I hear people say USE ZDOOM. USE GZDOOM to fucking everything here. To be nice I'll give you another example. One in which you even posted.

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37164

Enjay: We actually have to have jumping enabled to have more than 2 players on MAP20 (if you look at the map, this may be intentional, given the layout, size, etc. and the fact its vanilla doom.). Chrono did however tell us that he wouldnt bounce through the game, which he ended up doing.

I have a little qualm about people do in their own homes, I hate seeing shitty doom players made because a port allows them to lol their way through a wad (though some may very well cheat otherwise). And as a purist I think some things just plain don't belong in the game. But it doesn't bother me as much as it does some of these.

Belial said:

Allow cheat skins: off. Duh.

I don't do the hosting when playing in ST. Else I would have done that anyway. An option to disable them client-side would be handy.

Hobbs: I've seen that thread (Obviously) and it's the first of it's kind that I've seen in a while. But I agree that people should go source port whoring and just say "Use this port" because that's just asking for trouble (Hence my comment on that thread).

Hah, my port is bigger than yours.

I'll agree, there are some egotistical mappers for zdoom who think that they are the greatest, something I don't notice with other ports. I can't remember seeing anyone making a Jdoom or Eternity mod and gloating about it. Maybe it's the nature of zdoom having hundreds of features that draws in people who think more is better.

Responding to a 'which port can do this?' with 'use g/zdoom' is stupid. Especially after someone else posts a list of all the ports that support this feature.

Zdoom isn't doom anymore... I'd agree, except then I start thinking about what actually defines doom. What is doom to one person isn't doom to someone else. And this point doesn't really matter since if someone thinks doom is different than you, it doesn't suddenly change doom for you. Do you really lose sleep with the thought that someone doesn't like exactly what you like?

I'll give zdoom credit for being a port that splits the community so greatly. Too bad the reasons people choose sides are inane. I could understand if there was only one choice of port, or if you had to pay for them, but neither is the case.

i had no idea that recommending other ports was so wrong

my god will somebody pls think of the children?!

Xtife said:

i had no idea that recommending other ports was so wrong

There's a difference between "I recommend Port" and "Use Port because it owns", which is part of Hobbs' argument.

I didnt feel like looking for a lot so I just found one I remembered. Last one you're getting. I've made my point to whom it can be made.

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=608664#post608664

TheDarkArchon said:

I don't do the hosting when playing in ST. Else I would have done that anyway. An option to disable them client-side would be handy.

cl_cheatskins "0"
it IS client side.

I stand corrected. Thanks.

Enjay said:

Personally, I'd class that as being closer to an individual playing than different people. If a bunch of people are playing the same game, and using different features without agreement, then clearly it's going to get silly. If I couldn't agree a way of playing a multi-player game with all parties, I wouldn't play. It would just be annoying. If we had agreed a style of play and then people couldn't resist ignoring it, and wouldn't change their behaviour, I'd quit. What would be the point in carrying on. For the record, I do think that the best way to enforce compliance with rules and conventions of a MP game is by using flags to allow/disallow certain features - especially for open games where the players don't necessarily know each other.

So often, though, I see people making comments clearly indicating that they are upset by a person sitting in their home, on their computer, playing a SP game and jumping in a level where it wasn't intended. I have no idea if that bothers you, but clearly it bothers some people and I simply can't understand why.

If an end-user downloads a ZDoom WAD, how is he/she supposed to know whether or not to use jumping, crouching, or all of these other additional features? The problem with enabling them by default is that few people will bother to specifically disable them, even if their map isn't designed for their use.

For example, If I were to download any of the following high-profile ZDoom WADs, how do I know whether or not I'm supposed to be using crouching or jumping?

Simplicity
Action Doom
RTC-3057
Daedalus

Just for the record, I actually believe that ZDoom is one of the best ports. But the system for handling these cheat-like additional features really should be improved.

IMO, if a mapper is making a map for a port with jumping or crouching, they have to take these factors into account or, in ports that allow it, disable them.

there is a system in place already afaik
you can disable crouching and/or jump per level or something

but this is for zdoom only

@Doom_user

You make a good point. The simple answer should be "read the text" but I appreciate not all authors will be clear about their intentions. I know that even I have released a Zdoom specific WAD without clarifying the point.

My own take on it is, if a WAD is intended for Zdoom, unless the text specifically says no-jumping or it has been disabled, I assume it is OK. I know that could mean I end up jumping in to a place I am not supposed to go (oh the humanity, how will I cope ;) ) but it usually becomes apparent very quickly that is the case. I guess other people will take the opposite approach and assume no jumping unless specifically stated. It really should be down to authors to be clear on this and people should at least scan the text for important info.

If I DL a WAD that is intended for a non-jumping port, I still play it in Zdoom (assuming it can be played in Zdoom) but I simply won't jump if I want to play the WAD properly. Can you imagine the level of restraint I must have? ;)

I can also say that if these features were disabled by default, I'd enable them anyway. I don't need a WAD author holding my hand or dictating to me how to play, but I do like to know what their intention is.

HobbsTiger1 said:

Its hard to not get "bent out of shape" when stuff like KDiZD and ZDoom are ever so often shove down you're throat, and in ever new and unexpected ways.

2006! Prepare yourself for ACTION!

ACTION DOOM 2!!

HobbsTiger1 said:

I have a little qualm about people do in their own homes, I hate seeing shitty doom players made because a port allows them to lol their way through a wad (though some may very well cheat otherwise). And as a purist I think some things just plain don't belong in the game. But it doesn't bother me as much as it does some of these.

I think that sums up your entire stance, and the criticism of some people who oppose it. And it's not the first time I've seen this sort of thread, but the contents and results will be the same.

So I shall say the same thing: I've nothing against the classic style of play or the people who play it (I just prefer the new over the old), what I do have against it is when it gets rammed down our throats by people looking for trouble or who think that only their style should exist and everyone should play it.

Scuba Steve said:

2006! Prepare yourself for ACTION!

ACTION DOOM 2!!

Release it july 3 and make me proud.

Scuba Steve said:

2006! Prepare yourself for ACTION!

ACTION DOOM 2!!

Damn it Steve, this better not be another joke.

And it'd better not for Eternity...

The Ultimate DooMer said:

So I shall say the same thing: I've nothing against the classic style of play or the people who play it (I just prefer the new over the old), what I do have against it is when it gets rammed down our throats by people looking for trouble or who think that only their style should exist and everyone should play it.

If I've rammed it down you're throat this thread, oh noes. This thread has been quite the war of opinion, so deal with it. And for the last fucking time (not that it'll get through, you're skull is almost as thick as Grafs) I don't think my playstyle is the only one that should exist kthnxbai. Yes some port features bother me. Its my right to not like them. Yes I've voiced that this thread. Unless some moderator thinks my opinion is lol out of line I don't think its wrong to do so. Quit implying (lolz) to the contrary.

EDIT: I can certainly see this going on as long as the Sapphire bit did. But God I hope not.

This thread is so retarded it's awesome. So are any big changes coming in future zdoom releases?

no doubt more features that will tear this comminity apart (surprised doom isnt dead after this)

New Features: polymost and Floating point. Supposed to be faster. :/

thats only a rumor :)