Knee Deep in ZDoom released

kristus said:

I couldn't find the green key anyway.

Really? It's hidden in a standard E1 secret.

Once more proven that the types of personal preferences and tastes is very different concerning wads ;) I for myself like E1M1 as well as Graf does for the same reasons. Sure, it's different and also maybe the weakest map in the set but though it's nice and has some beautiful areas and ideas. No need to say that it totally sucks. Same goes to E1M2, that map is very clean and close to its original but very well expanded, one of my favorites in the set. But be happy, you have something to "play for" ;) The longer you play, the better the maps get :D

Speaking of e1m1, what were the par times shown on the intermap based on?

dethtoll said:

MY posts are a waste of time?

Well... yeah. Kristus, Zarky and Use3D all posted thoughtful responses, addressing their concerns, dislikes as well as accolades where due. You simply posted in this thread to say "lol sucks". Frankly, that's a waste of my time as well as everyone else's time.

Belial said:

What difficulty? The first maps are ridiculously easy. It seemed to me as if the gameplay testing on them consisted of adding a lot of ammo and health to offset the tediousness caused by their lack in the leaked 'betas'.

horseshit. i kept running out of ammo and getting raped by super imps. is this their revenge for imp encounter?

Scuba Steve said:

Well... yeah. Kristus, Zarky and Use3D all posted thoughtful responses, addressing their concerns, dislikes as well as accolades where due. You simply posted in this thread to say "lol sucks". Frankly, that's a waste of my time as well as everyone else's time.

actually, no. i specifically said that it doesn't feel very E1-ish and that it's too difficult (and i explained why.)

for that matter i didn't resort to personal attacks, unlike you. try again.

It should be noted that as always, Belial's comments about difficulty can't be used as a general indicator. Of course for him it's easy.

Anyway, there's more than enough ammo in M1, even without finding the secrets. But you have to be very careful with the shotgun shells. You need those mostly for the stronger enemies. If you shoot some lowly zombies with them you may run into problems.

I reacted in a rather immature and inappropraite way to Fiend's post. Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion and the fact that I didn't like his opinion doesn't give me the right to troll all over the thread and rant like a moron. I'm sorry Fiend.

Anyway, there's more than enough ammo in M1, even without finding the secrets. But you have to be very careful with the shotgun shells. You need those mostly for the stronger enemies. If you shoot some lowly zombies with them you may run into problems.

It was rather different from what you see in most wads. Once the player obtains the shotgun, the pistol becomes obsolete. I had to find that out the hard way on my first run through the level. The second I picked up that shotgun, I started wasting rounds on the zombie men, and didn't have enough shells for the super imps.

Taking note of the rumored difficulty issues, I began playing on HMP. So far, I'm at the beginning of Z1M3 with 200 health and 100 armor...although I'll admit I did save a few times, especially in areas I wasn't certain if falling into meant instant death or whatever.

I think it's safe to assume how I felt about M1. However, I thought M2 was great-- a very nice touch to a classic with all those lighting effects and the ambient sounds (yes, that's right). I'm a bit anxious to see how M3 is going to be like after what M2 provided.

Oh, and I like that data pad too.

okay, i'm having another bash at this on a much lower skill level (skill 2.) so far it's easier, yes, but i haven't run into the super imps yet and besides, i already know what to expect anyway having run through most of M1 already.

it still doesn't change the fact that i was expecting something much more, you know, E1-ish and the ad campaign the team put out is very misleading in that regard.

(INCOMING COPY+PASTE!)
It was a pretty fun ride. I was never a fan of E1M4, so that's one level I didn't enjoy, but the rest was great. Encounter the Shadow monsters for the first time was pretty amazing. The feeling of going through something so familar yet different here is what pulled me in. KDiZD has a warming familarity to it. Kudos to all of the team for the wonderful effort they put into this wad.

I was surprised by E1M8, which was the map I was looking forward to the most. Let's just say it's well worth the wait! ^_^

I have to say, my favorite part of the wad is when I finally got the Super Shotgun. It's fits right in with the enhanced difficulty, and I find it to be one of the best additions in the wad. The only thing I can gripe about is the Grenade Launcher...which didn't serve any purpose at all. It's limited range and the fact that it doesn't really bounce that much made it...useless. I found myself using it because I hadn't used it yet. The rifle was really just...powerful. You could mow down the final boss if you kept it at that point.

Lutarez said:

Oh, and I like that data pad too.

I'm still wondering where they're getting those fly by images from. Is there a ship flying over the place? If so, why not pick you up, or just fly back to base and bring back reinforcements?

dethtoll said:

for that matter i didn't resort to personal attacks, unlike you. try again.

Your mother.

i realize that i've been fairly negative about this wad, so here's some things i DO like:

1) the footstep noises. i like that a lot.
2) it's amazing the difference between HNTR and UV. okay, i take back a lot of what i said before- playing in HNTR makes the wad a LOT more tolerable, and even with 101 (!) monsters on the first map it's still getting back a slight E1 feel.
3) truly excellent use of some zdoom features like the realtime security screens.

will write more later

does that soothe your thin skin a little, steve?

Craigs said:

I'm still wondering where they're getting those fly by images from.

By the use of a special map and moving cameras.

...why not pick you up, or just fly back to base and bring back reinforcements?

No.

I had no idea it was coming out so soon. :D

I really like it, it's just really big and confusing for me. But so is using a debit card. :D

Some parts go so zany and newish like that I forget it's an Episode one remake. I noticed map 2 being very close to the original compared to 1 or 3. :D I liked that. :D

Those Nightcrawler things sure are scary though. They're like statues. They come out of nowhere. :D

Though I've been playing map 3 for over 3 hours now and I can't find the secret exit. I can't find where this green key goes. Any protips? :D

i will admit the PDA is the neatest trick i've seen in zdoom.

I played through the first level on Ultra-Violence, and it was pretty hard. I actually had to run from enemies to find more ammo and health. I've never had to run from enemies in Doom before. The part with the shotgun was kinda scary and dark. It seemed like the Demons were coming out of nowhere.

Part of what I've played in the second level was quite a bit easier, especially once I grabbed the backpack.

dethtoll said:

i will admit the PDA is the neatest trick i've seen in zdoom.

pifft, that shit an't nothin'.

Erp said:

fatal error message in gzdoom, if it won't run in gzdoom I won't bother with it. anyone else with problems?

i ran it in gzdoom just fine. it crashed it once, that's all. the only real problem is that in the last map, there's a green box around mars. heh otherwise no problems.

Fiend said:

4. The flashy black imp that moves around a lot.

for the developers of kdizd, this irritated me to the point that i IDDQDed. that's really my only gripe.

It's amazing what hype will do. I did not know about this project. I came on the site yesterday and I saw the news item about this revamped knee deep in the dead. I have to say after playing the first half of level 1 that I am pretty excited. I think the atmosphere is great. The opening sequence was really spot on, although I think it would have been better to have them say "get the hell out of there" instead of having them say "F***" and then bleep it out.... Plus saying "get the hell out of there" is a bit of foreshadowing, no? I like how there are new areas added but fit with the overall original level--seemlessly. I feel like I'm playing e1m1, but not. It's really great. To me they struck a perfect balance of revamping Phobos without going over the top with the technological advancements in doom design--without losing touch with the atmosphere and spirit of the original while not staying too close to the original so as to feel as if no significant improvement has been made--no sense of a new experience.
The gameplay so far is a little tedious with all the pistol firing but the ammo and health balance is sooooo good it makes it exhilarating. Just a few shotgun shells here and there and the new monsters are done really really well. I think it's kinda dumb tho how slow the new imp zombies are, especially since they don't fire anything. But it makes them creepy the way they slowly come at you: they are very bad ass and fit exceedingly well with the atmosphere of Phobos while adding a hint of something new. I really feel like I'm rediscovering Doom for the first time. Rediscovering something like it that is new and fresh--while at the same time I am being reminded of the forgotten "wows" of being amazed by the groundbreaking game that Doom was when I first played it way back in 1994. The shadows (which is a great concept for an enemy) are really well done too-an excellent job in fitting to the atmosphere of the episode. Those fireballs are great. Everything feels new about this episode--but true to the original in spirit. New but true--that could be a fitting slogan for this episode.
"You have been assisined by a shadow." I'm sorry, what is assisined? Sort of an unforgivable typo but it doesn't really deter from my overall feeling so far for this effort. A few small gripes that I am already beginning to get used to are the multi-2D items. I had thought about this way back when when still playing through Doom, when I realized you can't see more than one side of things (it was an impaled zombieman in e3m5 that I realized it). But I'm not sure how well it works. I think I'm getting used to it tho. The other thing is at the very beginning of playing I immediately felt like I was playing Quake 2 and then felt like I was playing Half Life and then briefly Duke Nukem 3D with the blowing up of walls and the cameras. These things are already fading though and the episode is feeling all its own. It's really cool how I feel like I'm playing an old game and a totally new game at the same time. I always wanted this experience of replaying Episode 1, of rediscovering an old friend, but never really thought it was a realistic fantasy--one that was possible. I would think about how I would modify all the levels to be new but retain the same atmosphere I loved from this episode. And I think these guys have really done it. But I should play through more before I reserve final judgment. Also, based on what I've seen so far, I don't see how anyone could have criticism for how long it took them. Seems perfectly reasonable.

Is there any plan of revamping The Shores of Hell and Inferno? I can just imagine the revamped version of E3M7!

Isle said:

pifft, that shit an't nothin'.

Great, you just won the "Asshole of the Year" award, congratulations. If you can come up with something similar or even better, I'll apologize!

dethtoll said:

does that soothe your thin skin a little, steve?

It's not what "soothes" my skin... it's what makes a critique effective. Saying "This sucks yadda yadda" instantly turns off anyone to whatever you have to say, no matter how valid it might be. You always start a critique with the positives, then you can talk about what you didn't like and then tell how you think it could be improved.

Tormentor did a disservice by being overly arrogant for much of the project, but that doesn't warrant a poor critique.

Tormentor667 said:

Great, you just won the "Asshole of the Year" award, congratulations. If you can come up with something similar or even better, I'll apologize!

Dude, Isle is a bot.

Tormentor667 said:

Great, you just won the "Asshole of the Year" award, congratulations. If you can come up with something similar or even better, I'll apologize!

dude i could tack on a mouse pointer and buttons on that thing in about 10 seconds

I think it's simply impressive - technically, artistically (not counting the cheesy intro) and, lo and behold, it's GREAT FUN too.

What's the problem some of you are having with the "random" new sections? If there was something that Doom wasn't, it's meaningful - and I've never seen you complain about the pointlessness or the abstractness of the original levels (it's a space marine battling demons on the surface of a Mars moon; why bother anyway?) Honestly, the new areas are quite refreshing and give meaning and purpose to the levels.

Also, about atmosphere; you've been playing Doom for years - there isn't much to surprise you anymore. IMO they did a good job with the mood of the levels.

The fact that it doesn't play like E1 is a boon, because otherwise how much would be worth playing it over again right?

The only thing I don't like much is that some bits are so dark you have to navigate through them with the automap.

Craigs said:

If so, why not pick you up, or just fly back to base and bring back reinforcements?

Why didn't the uac drop an bunch of nukes on it there done nobody has to go in and investigate, using an bit of immagination couldn't hurt.

Just asume there are no reinforcements left cause there all dead or are puppets of hell now.

Scuba Steve said:

It's not what "soothes" my skin... it's what makes a critique effective. Saying "This sucks yadda yadda" instantly turns off anyone to whatever you have to say, no matter how valid it might be. You always start a critique with the positives, then you can talk about what you didn't like and then tell how you think it could be improved.

Tormentor did a disservice by being overly arrogant for much of the project, but that doesn't warrant a poor critique.

i DID explain why i didn't like what i didn't like, which you're just ignoring. i never actually SAID "this sucks yadda yadda". what i said was i was disappointed, and explained why. my first impression of the wad was very, very bad and it kind of overshadowed everything else. replaying it, it's not SO bad. but i'm annoyed at the way you attacked me personally for stating my opinion. aside from saying that KDIZD team has thin skin (or maybe it's just you) i've said nothing bad about the teammembers, only the wad. so my initial critique wasn't so great. consider it a work in progress, as i restarted on an easier difficulty level and changed my opinion a little. on the other hand, you personally attacked me, and therefore you lost the argument. and before that, you attacked anyone who said anything bad about the wad, regardless of whether they explained why (me) or not (lamneth, for example.)

also, map 1 is really not that great, but it does get better in map 2.

wish you guys'd included a soundtrack. i guess i'll put together one myself from those remixes that german guy, kinkiness, did.

dethtoll said:

also, map 1 is really not that great, but it does get better in map 2.

I'm sure this will get even better in later maps ;) And now guys stop argueing and enjoy KDiZD ;)

@Hellbent & Spank - Thx for the kind words ;)

Isle said:

dude i could tack on a mouse pointer and buttons on that thing in about 10 seconds

I'd even give you 12 seconds to show us what you are capable of!

dethtoll said:

i DID explain why i didn't like what i didn't like, which you're just ignoring.

You were much more civil than many posters... you just happened to be the first to take my trolling bait ;)