DeePsea 12.15 and R3Dedit 1.6.37

I think he uses the latest SVN?
I havent updated for a long time as i dont feel like going into Windows everytime i want to map, waiting patiently for Slade3... :)

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Well, there's no war really since there's no one retorting. More like collective bashing.

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kristus said:

Well, there's no war really since there's no one retorting. More like collective bashing.


Looking at the last time DeeP actually logged in I'm not even sure he's even around to retort.

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Is the WAD managing part still available on the shareware? I often use that instead of XWE, wherever that fails.

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Craigs said:

Looking at the last time DeeP actually logged in I'm not even sure he's even around to retort.

Doesn't need to be him.

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$35? This isn't 1997 anymore I'm afraid...

Maybe if he should find something else to do, such as making it free or a more reasonable price, say $9.99?

I could second how bad his site looks visually, it's as he never updated the pages to look more 20xx.

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kristus said:

Doesn't need to be him.


Yeah well, I think it's safe to say he lost what little support he had a long time ago.

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I use an older version of Deepsea. Maybe 2002? I reached the linedef 'limit' (so it would just crash - a lot). Probably stored the linedefs and referenced them using a short instead of an int - god forbid you lost 2 bytes of memory. I see it as his mistake but he said the upgrade would cost me 20 dollars. Whoo.

So I just ended up splitting my map into two.

Unfortunately I really prefer Deepsea to Doom Builder. I feel completely handicapped every time I try to edit using Doom Builder but it's probably because I'm so used to Deepsea and too lazy to switch.

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I'd love to have a plugin for DB2 that rearranges the menus to resemble DeePsea's, but I doubt anyone will ever make one :|.

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$35 better come with a big wet BJ, cause there's no other way anyone's buying this in the presence of Doom Builder 2.

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Doom Marine said:

$35 better come with a big wet BJ, cause there's no other way anyone's buying this in the presence of Doom Builder 2.


No BJ but it does come in a beautiful box and jewel case. The box art is pretty impressive too.

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Craigs said:

No BJ but it does come in a beautiful box and jewel case. The box art is pretty impressive too.


That would be impressive. At first I thought you were serious and it made me kind of mad - because when I got my copy it came with 2 floppy disks and nothing else. Made me laugh anyway.

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Mordeth said:

Could we try and NOT start a flamewar this time please?


Hey Mordeth...it'll never happen. Once the announcement was made about the update for Deepsea the floodgates opened.

You and I both know as old time Doomers this will never stop...oh well.

If people don't like Deep for one reason or another, let's see...Pay for an editor, old code, cluttered interface, ripoff, Deep just sucks then that's their issue.

Me personally, I enjoy the DeepSea editor, very comfortable with it, and I find it very easy to use. There's nothing wrong with Doombuilder, I just prefer DeepSea.

I believe enough is enough though...could I ask the Moderator to please close this thread? There are more than enough threads here at Doomworld about the "Editor Wars."

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Cadman said:

Me personally, I enjoy the DeepSea editor, very comfortable with it, and I find it very easy to use. There's nothing wrong with Doombuilder, I just prefer DeepSea.

I believe enough is enough though...could I ask the Moderator to please close this thread? There are more than enough threads here at Doomworld about the "Editor Wars."


I don't have anything against the Deepsea editor and I can understand if people would rather use it than Doombuilder or Slade. The point remains however that 35 bucks is way too much for a level editor, especially one oriented towards a 16 year old game.

I don't approve of how he advertises his editor as superior by providing false information either. On his site he claims that his editor is the only editor (on two pages, once in large text and once in bright green text) that is compatible with strife. I don't think I need to go into details about why this is a blatant lie.

The same for his claim about it being the only editor that allows you to draw over linedefs. That may have been true at some point but again, since DoomBuilder 2 allows you to do this, it's nothing but a blatant lie.

In addition to blatant lies, his site also provides misleading information. At the top of the supported games page it says that the editor supports Quake and Duke Nukem. A closer look shows that the only things you can do with Duke Nukem is mess around with the textures and sprites a bit. As far as Quake goes, the only thing it allows you to do is rip textures from what I've read, something that's been done time and time again making it pretty much a useless feature. The way he has the page set up though may lead people browsing it to believe that it allows for full blown Quake editing.

Also I don't see any reason why this thread should be closed. Things have been pretty civil in it so far, especially by Doomworld standards.

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Craigs said:

Also I don't see any reason why this thread should be closed. Things have been pretty civil in it so far, especially by Doomworld standards.

We are getting older and more civilized. :)

My only problem with this editor is the stolen code.
He may put a price tag of 10000 $ on it, but stolen code is stolen code, thats a red flag for me because he abuses the niceness of other people releasing their sources.

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Last night I downloaded, installed, and configured Doombuilder.

Let's see how well I can break my 14-year-old habit.

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Yeah, honestly he can sucker people into paying $35 for his editor if he wants to. I don't even care that some people prefer DeePsea to Doom Builder, hell if anybody is guilty of overpaying for software it's me, since I just paid $50 for a Textmate license when perfectly fine free alternatives exist like vim and emacs.

The simple fact is, however, that his $35 is ill-gotten, using code that he is legally not allowed to use. He is earning money without respecting the licenses of the code that he poaches from, and the only reason he hasn't been sued is because the authors don't want to take him to court, first for monetary reasons and also because it's a huge hassle.

Ignoring him doesn't work. After all, he's still using stolen code, he still is #2 result on google for "Doom Editor" and he is presumably making enough money off of registrations that he still thinks it's worthwhile to update his software. The only way we have any possibility of getting him to change his ways is to continue to call attention to his thieving ways. Eventually, these sorts of posts might creep up google, and I don't think he'd be very happy with references to DeePsea surrounded by "Stolen Code".

All he has to do is open the source for R3Dedit. He doesn't have to stop charging money for it, all he has to do is release the source tree.

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Craigs said:

I don't approve of how he advertises his editor as superior by providing false information either. On his site he claims that his editor is the only editor (on two pages, once in large text and once in bright green text) that is compatible with strife. I don't think I need to go into details about why this is a blatant lie.


I don't think it's false information per se, but rather outdated information. IIRC for several years, DeeP/DeePsea was the only editor that is compatible with Strife.

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NiGHTMARE said:

I don't think it's false information per se, but rather outdated information. IIRC for several years, DeeP/DeePsea was the only editor that is compatible with Strife.


Still. There have been other editors that support strife for quite some time now and he's never bothered to remove that from his site.

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sgtcrispy said:

Interesting to see this actually get updated.

..plus WADED 1.83 for life!


Naa...
DEU 5.21 for life! ;)

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DoomCAD was much less glitchy than DEU! :p

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Have at it guys...I guess over the years I've just gotten feed up with all the slamming over this particular issue. There are very good points from everyone and I can respect that.

Nothing gets solved though...it seems that the parties involved will not use the judicial system to resolve this because of the time and expense involved, that's understandable. Hopefully his financial support base for this product may wither and he may release the source tree, who knows?

Either way, I'm through with it. Time for me to get back to mapping!! Take care guys! Hope to see you in a map somewhere!

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