Doom 4 to have "30 demons crawling all over you"

Carmack talks about Doom 4, the future, and many other things in this interview. id is focusing on Doom 4 in two months. "... as soon as Rage ships, the core tech team moves over to start making things happen on the Doom 4 project." Rage ships September 13th.

Having more demons on screen at once is a priority this time around. They're halving the framerate of single player on the consoles to handle it. Single player "is going to go 30 frames per second on the consoles. So we can have 30 demons crawling all over you on there."

Also, id won't be making an engine from scratch any time soon. Mostly because doing that for Rage took almost seven years. "We need to make sure that we don't wind up taking that long again. We're not going to tear up that much of the code base probably ever again."

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Hopefully the PC version will have more enemies because of the superior hardware. This worked well for Dragon Age Origins.

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sector666 said:

Single player "is going to go 30 frames per second on the consoles. So we can have 30 demons crawling all over you on there."

There are a total of 30 demons in the game.

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They could have at the very least made some of them spectres. Sounds like the game can easily be beaten with a berserk pack.

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lupinx-Kassman said:

They could have at the very least made some of them spectres. Sounds like the game can easily be beaten with a berserk pack.


That's what made the original Doom fun.

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Well, at least they're calling them demons. Beats the shit out of the Downs Syndrome mutants from the Doom movie.

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Theoretically, couldn't they, you know, not cap the framerate? You know, like any good PC would without the crap that is called VSYNC? I guess everyone's still afraid of the ignorant moron reviewers that railed Quake IV on console for not having a single constant for FPS.

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Xeros612 said:

Theoretically, couldn't they, you know, not cap the framerate? You know, like any good PC would without the crap that is called VSYNC? I guess everyone's still afraid of the ignorant moron reviewers that railed Quake IV on console for not having a single constant for FPS.


What is crap about Vsync? It stops the screen tearing up like crazy if u have a monitor bigger than 15" lol

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Why does he even mention the FPS? The only ones who care about that are console kiddies that don't understand tech, and they are just going to complain about it being 30. The original Doom ran at 35FPS, but I doubt there was a press release saying that.

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This particular "console kiddy" wouldn't mind an explanation of why I shouldn't care about FPS. Low or irregular framerates have ruined my enjoyment of many, many games before I even knew about it.

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Mr. T said:

What is crap about Vsync? It stops the screen tearing up like crazy if u have a monitor bigger than 15" lol

The only time I've felt it useful is when combining it with triple buffering in NVIDIA CP for better performance in Brink. Other than that, it feels like it messes with input reading and just feels awful.

@SCET One of the major draws for Call of Duty on the console is that it runs (for the most part) at 60 FPS. This is obviously a smoother, more enjoyable control experience than games capped at 30. Again, not capping the framerate and letting the game run as well as the system's hardware allows can't hurt the systems at all.

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esselfortium said:

There are a total of 30 demons in the game.


The number of demons on screen at any given time is directly proportionate to the number of frames per second.

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Xeros612 said:

Theoretically, couldn't they, you know, not cap the framerate? You know, like any good PC would without the crap that is called VSYNC? I guess everyone's still afraid of the ignorant moron reviewers that railed Quake IV on console for not having a single constant for FPS.

Quake IV on the 360 was an unoptimized piece of shit. The reviewers weren't ignorant or stupid, they played a game that ran like shit and called them out on it.

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Phml said:

Low or irregular framerates have ruined my enjoyment of many, many games before I even knew about it.


How exactly? You're on a website dedicated to a game with a little over 30FPS, so it can't be as bad as you claim. Most likely some aspect of those games were just shit, but you've decided to blame the FPS.

Xeros612 said:

not capping the framerate and letting the game run as well as the system's hardware allows can't hurt the systems at all.


Except that if you let the game run at 60FPS and then "30 demons crawl all over you", what are you going to say when it suddenly becomes choppy and the screen tears?

Basically a low framerate is better than an irregular one, and I don't want a bunch of content cut out because of consoles.

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How exactly? You're on a website dedicated to a game with a little over 30FPS, so it can't be as bad as you claim. Most likely some aspect of those games were just shit, but you've decided to blame the FPS.


You assume a lot.

I haven't played Doom at 35 FPS since about 2002 or 2003. Before that, I stopped playing Doom for years. Irrevelant to the topic.

I haven't made the claim that 30 FPS is low FPS for each and every game. I haven't even made the claim that 30 FPS is low FPS for any game. For some games, it is definitely crippling, though, but that's still irrelevant to the discussion.



I've said games have been ruined by low framerates for me ; for my enjoyment to have been lessened, I had fun to begin with. Typical scenario I was thinking of is I'm having a blast until framerate drops again and again and ruins the game to me. Bad games are another thing entirely, and again, irrelevant.

Your argument was that nobody should care about FPS. Like, at all. Most fast-paced games of any kind will play poorly at 10-15 FPS (whether as a spike or consistently), no matter how you spin it, and that's why FPS is worth caring about.

Basically a low framerate is better than an irregular one


Basically, you agree with what I said in answer to someone else, right after attacking the exact same thing. Nice flip flop.

Seriously, if you can't offer an explanation to your nonsensical statements when prompted to, don't make an ass out of yourself with tons of wrong assumptions. Just shut up.

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Scet said:

Except that if you let the game run at 60FPS and then "30 demons crawl all over you", what are you going to say when it suddenly becomes choppy and the screen tears?

Since I'm not a moron, I'd know that the framerate dropped because of a weaker system trying to render complex objects. Anyone who has played on PC should be familiar with framerates not being an absolute constant. (Something which even these "Capped at 30" games can't always maintain on console.)

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Phml said:

Seriously, if you can't offer an explanation to your nonsensical statements when prompted to, don't make an ass out of yourself with tons of wrong assumptions.

Maybe if you'd posted what you thought about the 30FPS limit and not just "Low or irregular framerates have ruined my enjoyment" I wouldn't have to assume anything. How I'm I suppose to know what you mean by low? You identified yourself as a "console kiddie", don't blame me then for putting you in that group. Perhaps you just assumed I was referring to all console owners?

Phml said:

Typical scenario I was thinking of is I'm having a blast until framerate drops again and again and ruins the game to me. Your argument was that nobody should care about FPS. Basically, you agree with what I said in answer to someone else

Again, I can't read minds so how I'm I supposed to know what scenario you're thinking of, or that you don't play Doom at 35 FPS. And I didn't say FPS shouldn't matter, I said 30 FPS shouldn't matter. Alright maybe it does to some people, but those people are crazy.

Xeros612 said:

Since I'm not a moron, I'd know that the framerate dropped because of a weaker system trying to render complex objects.

That's nice, but a lot of people are morons and are going to throw Doom 4 in the bin if the drops occur too often. Being capped at 30 is too prevent there being as many drops then if it ran at 60.

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This awesome page pours some quick-hardening concrete down the intestines of FPS e-peeners, and then forcibly removes it, tearing down their weak intestinal tissues FOREVER and producing a LASTING impression.

Jokes apart, it's an interesting read and ends a lot of misconceptions. If only I was aware of it before, that would have ended a lot of heated FPS debates with an epic win (for me) and total rectal destruction (for the e-peeners) ;-)

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30 monsters at once? Sounds better than Doom 3, which was 3 monsters at once.

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One of the major draws for Call of Duty on the console is that it runs (for the most part) at 60 FPS.


All the while 5-10 grenades are flying at you nonstop every 30 seconds on Veteran difficulty. Now that kind of infinite grenade spamming REALLY ruins a game.

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julz_d said:

All the while 5-10 grenades are flying at you nonstop every 30 seconds on Veteran difficulty.

To my knowledge, only World at War did that retarded "billions of grenades!!!!11" thing in the campaign.

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Xeros612 said:

To my knowledge, only World at War did that retarded "billions of grenades!!!!11" thing in the campaign.


That's just my frustration speaking from trying to get all the Veteran Achievements in SP lol. But I'm glad to hear the others didn't take the same approach anyway.

TBH I'm having more fun with Duke Nukem Forever than any of those COD games anyway.

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7 years on idtech5 development? everythings written from scratch? how many times going on and off?

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As long as its 60 fps on pc thats fine, theres probably no point in buying doom 4 for the consoles anyway, if id intends it for the 360 and ps3 I'm assuming they've factored in the fact that by the time doom 4 comes out there will probably be new consoles out.

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