id: Hell on Earth?

Kotaku have posted an in-depth, fascinating investigation of Doom 4's... shall we say... troubled development cycle. Project reboots, power struggles, serious morale issues, thinly-veiled threats... it's basically Heaven's Gate with Cacodemons. Bethesda's Pete Hines confirmed to Eurogamer that Doom 4 has been restarted in the past. The game is now targeting next-gen console hardware.

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Somehow this thread got deleted, but I don't know if anyone had commented yet.

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Me neither, but I'm glad it's back! :) This is harsh news.

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Is restarting a project a good idea? Every time I restarted something, I was in for a hell of drama (chiefly because of wasted time).

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printz said:

Is restarting a project a good idea? Every time I restarted something, I was in for a hell of drama (chiefly because of wasted time).

Whatever it takes to get as far away from that fucking Call of Doom shit as possible.

Christ almighty.

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Captain Red said:

Whatever it takes to get as far away from that fucking Call of Doom shit as possible.

Christ almighty.


Yes, this is very disappointing, I'm glad Zenimax gave Id a much deserved spanking, +1 for them, if it hadn't been for them we might have gotten this Call of Doom. I think we should mass tweet id software the Call of Dooty videos to pressure them to make a good game. Even if it doesn't work the lulz alone would be epic.

If I were Id, I'd be very ashamed about COPYING other companies, they invented the FPS, others should follow them, not the other way around.

This article also makes me think that Id is unable to adapt and find its place in the modern industry, RAGE, while it was pretty good for the most part felt so 2004. I just hope this new iteration of Doom 4 will be something with balls. I don't expect revolutionary anymore but it has to be anything but COD.

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Doom 4 may be farther in time from Doom 3 than Doom 3 was from Doom 2! And I thought that progress is exponential.

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I've said this before, but id are no longer the innovators they once were. We would probably have been all over RAGE if Borderlands hadn't happened (might've had a decent Aliens game too but nvm). They haven't managed to do anything that set them apart from other devs since Quake 3, and for a studio that's even less prolific than Polyphony Digital, that's a dangerous space to be in. I can't help but think that it's all gonna go arse over tit in the end.

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Yikes, I didn't know they were once trying to create a Call of Duty clone out of this!!! Egads!!!!!

While I enjoyed DOOM III, I felt that that was where they went wrong. The whole interface with checking e-mails and this and that worked well with games like System Shock II and what not, but for a game like DOOM III, it really took away from that vibe that the originals had. Likewise, I wasn't too keen on the follow up, with the scientist turning into a demon and all that jazz. I felt like the story was half assed and was merely taking notes from the movie Event Horizon.

Anyhow, as far as innovation, I'm not expecting that from ID any longer either. I just want good solid game play that draws elements from innovations ID has brought to the table in the past, not the other way around. The fact that they were/are aiming to increase the enemy count is certainly a step in the right direction, but a Call of Duty like game is NOT what I'm looking for. Mind you, I want co-op and all that jazz, but I also want a spiritual successor to DOOM, not COD with demons. Bah, that just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

DooM_RO said:

Yes, this is very disappointing, I'm glad Zenimax gave Id a much deserved spanking, +1 for them, if it hadn't been for them we might have gotten this Call of Doom. I think we should mass tweet id software the Call of Dooty videos to pressure them to make a good game. Even if it doesn't work the lulz alone would be epic.

If I were Id, I'd be very ashamed about COPYING other companies, they invented the FPS, others should follow them, not the other way around.

This article also makes me think that Id is unable to adapt and find its place in the modern industry, RAGE, while it was pretty good for the most part felt so 2004. I just hope this new iteration of Doom 4 will be something with balls. I don't expect revolutionary anymore but it has to be anything but COD.

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I am just glad that they had the balls to say "no, Call of Doom sucks. Restart it!" instead of just going on with it and giving us a bad CoD clone.

I think this is actually a good thing.

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hardcore_gamer said:

I am just glad that they had the balls to say "no, Call of Doom sucks. Restart it!" instead of just going on with it and giving us a bad CoD clone.

I think this is actually a good thing.


Agreed! Sometimes starting over from scratch is the best resolve, Lord knows I'd done it a hundred times. :)

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hardcore_gamer said:

I am just glad that they had the balls to say "no, Call of Doom sucks. Restart it!" instead of just going on with it and giving us a bad CoD clone.

I think this is actually a good thing.

I've never played Call of Duty, but let's assume: wasn't Wolfenstein by Raven exactly that? A Call of Duty derivative lookalike. As in: if Doom 4 became like CoD, we'd be able to compare it to Wolfenstein.

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hardcore_gamer said:

I am just glad that they had the balls to say "no, Call of Doom sucks. Restart it!" instead of just going on with it and giving us a bad CoD clone.

I think this is actually a good thing.


The fact that they even considered - nay WORKED on it - is abhorrent.RAGE gave me the impression that they were willing to do something new.Oh well, at least they ditched it. Shame about the lost years though. Call of Dooty has just gotten a lot more relevant.

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printz said:

I've never played Call of Duty, but let's assume: wasn't Wolfenstein by Raven exactly that? A Call of Duty derivative lookalike. As in: if Doom 4 became like CoD, we'd be able to compare it to Wolfenstein.


Wolfenstein wasn't anything like Call of Duty.

It was much more arcadey, had interesting and fun weapons, fun enemies, and a rather interesting though not very complex story.

Was it a fantastic game? No, but it was still lots and lots of fun. I actually replayed wolfenstein, and might even do so again at some point in the future.

Calling Wolfenstein a CoD clone is a joke.

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Also, Wolfenstein 2009 sold poorly.

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hardcore_gamer said:

I am just glad that they had the balls to say "no, Call of Doom sucks. Restart it!" instead of just going on with it and giving us a bad CoD clone.

I think this is actually a good thing.

Which brings up and interesting point: What the hell kind of Bizarro World is this where the publisher's are telling the developers not to make there shooter like Call of Duty?

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I reckon Bethesda will be or already are the death of ID.

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It won't be Bethesda's fault - That's all on Id. Doom 4 will be the death of that company, I'm calling it.

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Avoozl said:

I reckon Bethesda will be or already are the death of ID.


"Hey Activision, can you market our Call of Duty clone? kkthxbye!"

If anything, this kick in the butt they just got might be the only thing that can save the company. Id did a fine job of shooting themselves in the foot, repeatedly. Remember that it's a company that has fired like 3/4 of the original founders, and not on amicable terms. It's a crab's nest of infighting and dissension, with nobody there agreeing with anybody else about what they should do.

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Captain Red said:

Which brings up and interesting point: What the hell kind of Bizarro World is this where the publisher's are telling the developers not to make there shooter like Call of Duty?


A good kind of publisher. Zenimax has just gained even more respect from me for teaching Id a lesson.

Avoozl:

I reckon Bethesda will be or already are the death of ID.


WRONG, this is exactly what Id needed, every mistake they did with Doom 3, RAGE and Doom 4 was because of them. Zenimax did the good thing. Id was also doing some early stuff on RAGE 2...while their flagship game is is having serious development issues...NOT smart... AT ALL.

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Honestly, if id simply went back to its roots I think Doom 4 would do well. The market is saturated with linear, cinematic shooters like COD which take themselves way too seriously. If id made Doom 4 a bad ass, adrenaline rush shooter that doesn't take itself too seriously and is violent and bloody and satisfying like Brutal Doom, then I think it would stand out from the crowd. There are many young gamers out there in my opinion that have only known games like COD their whole lives. If a modern version of Classic Doom were reintroduced to the market, I think it would get some attention from a lot of young gamers who have never known classic shooters like Doom, Quake, or Duke Nukem.

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doom_is_great said:

Honestly, if id simply went back to its roots I think Doom 4 would do well. The market is saturated with linear, cinematic shooters like COD which take themselves way too seriously. If id made Doom 4 a bad ass, adrenaline rush shooter that doesn't take itself too seriously and is violent and bloody and satisfying like Brutal Doom, then I think it would stand out from the crowd. There are many young gamers out there in my opinion that have only known games like COD their whole lives. If a modern version of Classic Doom were reintroduced to the market, I think it would get some attention from a lot of young gamers who have never known classic shooters like Doom, Quake, or Duke Nukem.


Hear, hear!!! :)

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hardcore_gamer said:
I am just glad that they had the balls to say "no, Call of Doom sucks. Restart it!"


The sad thing is that it wasn't id Software that made that decision. It was Zenimax. Their publisher. Their publisher telling id Software that this is not how a new Doom game should be like.

And the truly bizarre thing is that it is Zenimax who is right here.

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Wrong. Id management made the decision. Zenimax made the call to cancel other projects.

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I had been getting the sense that id was very poorly managed. These guys struck gold back in the 90's, but nowadays they are finding it difficult to run a real business with deadlines and proper product scope.

They sold out to ZeniMax because, quite frankly, their business model was completely unsustainable at their game release rate + revenue base.

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Ideally, Carmack should have brought in a new team of mappers who are just hard core fans of all things ID, people that really show potential and capture the spirit of DOOM. Heck bring Romero in to help select these kids. Find them on the internet, run a contest, something.

I love it when people with clout and money help to bring in people much like them selves who just had a passion for what they were doing, not necessarily a drive to make money...

...though that was also on his agenda, still yet, it would seem a Carmack thing to do, and certainly a Romero thing, they just need good management, that's always been an issue at ID it seems.

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