US policestate

Goliath said:

Best example I can give you is a [sic] ant hill living with out[sic] a queen. All the workers work as hard a possible, gather as much food for themselves. See without a despotic goverment, people just work for themselves and the greed in basic humanity takes over causing people to become cold to the repercussions of their actions.

Perfect example, without the queen the colony dies. :P

you know what I mean, I explained it perfectly well.

Silverwyvern said:

How OLD are you?

Okay look at it this way, through out modern history the media has played a role. It was once said that if the media exsisted like it does today FDR wouldn't have been president, McArthur and Patton would have been fired and history would have been changed. The onyl reason that this war is Iraq and the War in Vietnam was opposed by American people was because for the first time ever people could watch the war on TV. The media is a major part in any presidents descion because now everybody will find out, and no sercets can be kept. It is a major pain in the ass for our goverment, now if they controled it do you really think we would see the shit we see today on TV. Do you really think that the US would want to Iraq abuse scandle on TV, NO!!!.

Goliath said:

long unneeded ramble...

No.. seriously.. how old?

One of the admins could probably tell you what he checked on the COPPA part of the forum registration, if they have added that in. I've seen it other places, dunno if it's been done here.

Goliath said:

The onyl reason that this war is Iraq and the War in Vietnam was opposed by American people was because for the first time ever people could watch the war on TV.

rofl, riiiight. People only oppose them because of the media, it has nothing to do with the 'reasoning' for either 'war', which in both cases ia a fairly large glob of bullshit. But no, let's blame the media for putting them in a (truthful) negative light!

Silverwyvern said:

No.. seriously.. how old?

Place your bets ... NOW!

Damn how lame would it be to have a complusorary(sp?) chip inserted under your skin? The bastards could spy, track and detect substances (possibly) in your body. There'd be no privacy.

Is the Land of the Free gonna rebel or something, if this takes place?

The US is rotting, they are whipping a dead horse...

Janderson said:

Place your bets ... NOW!

Damn how lame would it be to have a complusorary(sp?) chip inserted under your skin? The bastards could spy, track and detect substances (possibly) in your body. There'd be no privacy.

Is the Land of the Free gonna rebel or something, if this takes place?

I sure as hell will.

Silverwyvern:
How OLD are you?

[ <3 ] Woooh, next she'll be asking Goliath for his sign and phonenumber! [ <3 ]

;-D

ok, that was cheap... can we please get back to the orignal topic...

Goliath said:

The onyl reason that this war is Iraq and the War in Vietnam was opposed by American people was because for the first time ever people could watch the war on TV.

right, because now modern people can actually see the death and destruction caused by something that may not need to be happening.
And that begs the question...Throughout history have there been protests (perhaps fairly sizable) by people for any conflict pre-modern communication?

The media is a major part in any presidents descion because now everybody will find out, and no sercets can be kept. It is a major pain in the ass for our goverment, now if they controled it do you really think we would see the shit we see today on TV. Do you really think that the US would want to Iraq abuse scandle on TV, NO!!!.

fuck, even worse...it's controlled by numerous multi-national corporations

Quast said:

right, because now modern people can actually see the death and destruction caused by something that may not need to be happening.
And that begs the question...Throughout history have there been protests (perhaps fairly sizable) by people for any conflict pre-modern communication?


fuck, even worse...it's controlled by numerous multi-national corporations

thats not what im saying, Im saying is that you people who all got shit to say about the Greatest country in the world, should be praising the media because atleast they keep the goverment that you claim is so bad, honest.

I, for one, love this country. I am free to basicaly do whatever...buy a house, live and work wherever, be non-religious, own firearms...No country is perfect, none will ever be, not even the USA. But just because I enjoy the freedoms i have, doen't mean I have to go along with whatever Bush thinks is right.

Dude, I think what you need to realize is that since 'we the people' elect* these fucks (<- sarcasm) into office...we have every goddamn right as citizens of this so-called democracy to scrutinize everything they say and/or do. Our founding fathers wanted us to have the ability to do this. That's why we have the bill of rights.

* I'm not going to get into the electoral college

Quast said:

I, for one, love this country. I am free to basicaly do whatever...buy a house, live and work wherever, be non-religious, own firearms...No country is perfect, none will ever be, not even the USA. But just because I enjoy the freedoms i have, doen't mean I have to go along with whatever Bush thinks is right.

Dude, I think what you need to realize is that since 'we the people' elect* these fucks (<- sarcasm) into office...we have every goddamn right as citizens of this so-called democracy to scrutinize everything they say and/or do. Our founding fathers wanted us to have the ability to do this. That's why we have the bill of rights.

* I'm not going to get into the electoral college

right...but the thing that gets me is what is the point of scrutinizing everything he does. He is as you say only in office for 4 years inless the people feel that he is a good enough leader to serve another. Bush won office, lead the country, noted he did fuck things up a bit but im not going to protest, because the way democracy works is that I can just protest at the voting booth. I voted for him, I made a mistake and I'm going to vote him out, simple as that. No need to put it in the man's ass.

Goliath said:

right...but the thing that gets me is what is the point of scrutinizing everything he does. He is as you say only in office for 4 years inless the people feel that he is a good enough leader to serve another. Bush won office, lead the country, noted he did fuck things up a bit but im not going to protest, because the way democracy works is that I can just protest at the voting booth. I voted for him, I made a mistake and I'm going to vote him out, simple as that. No need to put it in the man's ass.

so you'll sit idley by while he's in office and let him do whatever the fuck he pleases?
I see nothing wrong with him, or any president, being under constant scrutiny. he's the president.

Quast said:

so you'll sit idley by while he's in office and let him do whatever the fuck he pleases?
I see nothing wrong with him, or any president, being under constant scrutiny. he's the president.

I'm not saying to not express your discontent and to write letters but what has been happening in the news and TV is they are ruthlessly destroying his character. Now thats not right, if you don't like a president just complain about him as a president not as a person.

You know, I really wish all these ignorant teenagers (who know nothing about politics) would REALLY leave the country instead of just talking about it. All I ever hear is "I don't like the US" "The US Sucks I'm leaving" or "Our presidents are so stupid, we're such a war hungry nation" Well guess what, no one's forcing you to stay here, no one is going to hunt you if you move. So why don't you stop being a baby and really leave this country. "If you don't like it, leave. Don't change it, don't complain about it, don't comment unless you have anything good to say about it." Like I said, no one forces you to stay here, leave if you don't like it. Don't be a liberal. Liberals took teh church out of public buildings and invented political correctness (both of which were huge mistakes). And if your from another country, tough, deal with it, and be more concerned about your own countries problems rather than worrying about ours. I'm tired of all these people doing nothing but complaining, and whining, and moaning about how bad the US is. If you don't like it, leave, don't complaing. If something about the US bothers you or that you dont like, move to a country that better suits you. So basically what I am trying to say is "QUIT TALKING ABOUT IT AND COMPLAINING AND LEAVE ALREADY!!" And also, for all you kiddies out there in TV land. NOT EVERYTHING IN THE MEDIA AND NEWS IS ENTIRELY TRUE!!! They have a bad reputation of blowing things WAY out of proportion and stretching the truth. The other day I saw a report on a "terrorist attack" and it said 3 were wounded and no deaths, guess what, one of the wounded was a 6 year old girl with a tiny little scratch on her knee (you get more damage from falling off your bike when it isn't moving), the second guy had a bruise on his arm, and the third person got a minor cut on her foot...so the media STRETCHES THE TRUE and BLOWS THINGS WAY OUT OF PROPORTION!!!!! And Quast how can you honestly say you love this country and criticize the fundamental government (democracy) that this country was built on.

~That is all.

S1lent said:

Well guess what, no one's forcing you to stay here, no one is going to hunt you if you move. So why don't you stop being a baby and really leave this country.

It's not as quite as easy as you make it seem to emmigrate to another country.
Oh well, you want all liberals to leave? Would you enjoy a facist one party system? I'm sure you would. Noone would argue! heh

Personaly, I don't think two is enough. Checks and balances dude. know it

don't comment unless you have anything good to say about it."

Don't excercise your rights?

And if your from another country, tough, deal with it, and be more concerned about your own countries problems rather than worrying about ours.

We do in fact make things a problem that does concern other countries. Thus making some things their problems. Besides, if that's your idea of what other countries should do...why the double standard? Can't the US do that same?

blah blah blah

just ...learn to type properly. All you do is blab on and on

Wow, actually, I didn't say "all liberals should leave" and secondly, I withdraw my comment about the "dont say anything bad about it". if you have something bad to say about it, do it in a dignifying manor instead of just blurting out "This countrie sux0rz big tIme!!!!1!1!1111one!1won. And finally, just because you have a hard time reading, doesn't mean you should take it out on me.

S1lent said:

And finally, just because you have a hard time reading, doesn't mean you should take it out on me.

I can read just fine. YOU can't type. Hit the enter key a few times maybe. Use some paragraphs for fuck sake. Don't write entire sentances in caps.

And Quast how can you honestly say you love this country and criticize the fundamental government (democracy) that this country was built on.

I wasn't criticizing the goverment that built the nation. In fact I lauded it. I was/am being critical of the current administration. What is wrong with voicing ones opinion? Hitler, Stalin and Saddam didn't allow dissent...and you want us to shut up?...WTF is wrong with you?

Did you miss the whole "I withdraw my statement?" Besides, you said you love the country and still said (sarcastically) "This so called democracy" I'm not going to have a political arguement with someone who knows nothing about what he's talking about and takes things out of context.

S1lent said:

) "This so called democracy" I'm not going to have a political arguement with someone who knows nothing about what he's talking about and takes things out of context.

whatever...by definition and the way it's ran now our country is a republic

s1lent, goliath, please learn to type in small paragraphs. we're not the crazy ones, it really makes things easier to read.

whatever...by definition and the way it's ran now our country is a republic

yes, it's a democratic republic. but a true democracy simply wouldn't work in many developed countries, and especially so in one as large as the US

S1lent said:
Don't be a liberal. Liberals took teh church out of public buildings and invented political correctness (both of which were huge mistakes).

You know what I love about you guys? You talk big, but somebody takes a swipe at your precious religion and you cry like babies. God how I laughed at those whiney little bitches who cried when that hunk of granite was kicked out of courthouse.

Seriously, tell me one good reason why keeping the church the hell out of the state ISN'T a good thing (for anyone who's soul duity isn't to convert every heathen on the planet)?

Oh, and then you blame us for "political correctness" yet I bet you'd be up in arms if your bills where changed to "one nation, under Allah"

S1lent said:
And if your from another country, tough, deal with it, and be more concerned about your own countries problems rather than worrying about ours.

I've got news for you, when your retard of a president decides to go to war, our spineless idiot of a prime minister decides we need to be involved despite the fact it doesn’t have a FUCKING THING TO DO WITH US. So trust me honey muffins, it's OUR PROBLEM.

Goliath said:
The onyl reason that this war is Iraq and the War in Vietnam was opposed by American people was because for the first time ever people could watch the war on TV. The media is a major part in any presidents descion because now everybody will find out, and no sercets can be kept. It is a major pain in the ass for our goverment, now if they controled it do you really think we would see the shit we see today on TV. Do you really think that the US would want to Iraq abuse scandle on TV, NO!!!.

You make a good point. War is only bad when it's on TV.

Zoost said:
I saw the first ten minutes and stopped it after the narrator told that "they" needed a bigger war than WWI because "they" (the UN?) wanted to put a New World Order in place, so they started WWII.

As said in the official UN site:
The name "United Nations", coined by United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt, was first used in the "Declaration by United Nations" of 1 January 1942, during the Second World War, when representatives of 26 nations pledged their Governments to continue fighting together against the Axis Powers.

The UN didn't even exist then. The author of the film sure doesn't like the Roosevelts, though.

m0l0t0v said:
Just finished watching it...

I tried that, but when I paused it at one point and came back, it got stuck (timed out from the server's side, I guess.)

Well at first it seemed pretty good. There was evidence and the arguments appeared relativeliy objective.

Not really, it just plays along well by using a lot of news footage. To many that makes it "objective" in a way.

From this I concluded he was indeed a conservative right wing weirdo.

Heh, no need to delve deeply to do so.

Then he made the mistake of mentioning the Illuminaty. If you want your conspiracy theory to be taken seriously, do NOT mention the Illuminaty. You might as well say the aliens did it...

He did say they were Satanic. Did you note the part where Bush's eyes are made red like in some cheap B movie to denote he is devilish, or the play with voices where they get rougher and lower to sound evil? Heh.

Anyway, than it goes on on how the UN is taking over the US, which seemed really far fetched. As it went on less and less evidence was presented and more speculations were added. Suddenly everyone was involved! Bush, Bin Laden, the millitary, the police, the childern, environmental groups, the UN and the Arabs were al conspiring against the patriotic christian americans. What started out as an interesting report on suspicious circumstances on the Oklahoma bombings ended up in a vague an incredible "the UN wants to destroy 80% of the population fairy tale."

Aha, I gotta keep watching, our story gets interesting! ...

Through out the movie we can detect his motives. Alex Jones is obviously a, patriot, gun owner, nationalist weirdo and wants to keep his country pure from un-american factors. There may be some thruth in his story, but I certainly wouldn't let him rule my new world order :-)

The stage is kind of ripe for this kind of thing to surface, with a growing lower middle class staring at the maws of potential instability and poverty many people are more likely to take this stuff for granted since they are concerned and will want a solution. The racist connotations are illustrative. Additionally, of course, the present administration has shown itself wrong on quite many counts, and has a lot to hide, so it's really open for this kind of defamation. You can get such treatment from upstarts who betray you when they see they gain nothing from supporting you on your way down.

Yeah, a lot of the movie bothered me too. The Illuminati thing, and the way he made use of music and cheap effects. But the whole idea of having society turn into a real life Minority Report upsets me. I do believe that eventually that will happen.

S1lent said:

You know, I really wish all these ignorant teenagers (who know nothing about politics) would REALLY leave the country instead of just talking about it. All I ever hear is...

Will You Marry Me!!

By the way the only reason that you liberals can even exist is because Republicans who run the country fight to retain freedom for everybody.You guys have all these problems but what you fail to remember is that things can get worse, so instead of going on and on about what a hell hole America and Western society (which Israel is part of) is, just think about what would happen if the terrorists took over, if they got their way. If you don't want to live like that then you really have no business criticizing the goverment that not only protects you but allows you to degrate it.

Political parties do not fight to retain rights for the people. They fight to gain money for themselves. Politics is a business in western society. It is the people who must fight to retain their own rights, but that fight gets increasingly hard as the people are taken more out of the loop. The dissent of the population is the motivation for politicians to take action. The politicians have no right to do what THEY believe is right for the nation. It is their job to be expedients of the will of the people, as Thoreau stated it. They severely fail to do so, and that is why "we liberals" go complaining about it. The government is not doing the job set forth for it in the Constitution and in all principles on which our government is based. You and S1lent really do need to read up on your world government history and sociology. Pay particular attention to Thoreau, Locke, Hobbes, the Magna Carta, etc. The Magna Carta was fundamental in the development of the US Constitution, and a compromise on the Locke/Hobbes debate determined somewhat how our system of checks and balances functions.

What I have said is not a matter of opinion. This is fact. This is how our government is supposed to act. It is not up to debate. Clearly you are lacking in political/sociological education.

Goliath said:

Will You Marry Me!!

By the way the only reason that you liberals can even exist is because Republicans who run the country fight to retain freedom for everybody.You guys have all these problems but what you fail to remember is that things can get worse, so instead of going on and on about what a hell hole America and Western society (which Israel is part of) is,

Errm have you read the patriot act?
And Israel is Middle East not Western, how the hell it got into the Eurovision song contest escapes me!

Ultraviolet said:

What I have said is not a matter of opinion. This is fact. This is how our government is supposed to act. It is not up to debate. Clearly you are lacking in political/sociological education.

Ultraviolet is 100% correct. All of the Western governments have been moving gradually toward a new police state model during the past two decades, where the people have no voice or power (despite maintainance of illusions that they do via meaningless elections, two-party systems, and repeated reference to documents like the Constitution even while its foundations are torn apart law by law), and where the government micromanages everyone's lives.

What interests me are British citizens who criticize the US government for following this path while ignoring the fact that their own government is actually significantly farther down the path than we currently are (despite our efforts to catch up). You cannot even legally defend yourself in that country any longer, as a man was sent to prison for killing in self-defense. Without the right to maintain your own life, what right do you truly have? This is not to mention the many proposed laws that would do away with the very founding principles of civil rights and democratic government, including the principles of habeas corpus and the right to an attorney. And of course there are the various digital tech laws, like the proposal to outlaw all cryptography and/or require all keys to be in escrow with the government. Failure to turn over a key would have brought a stiff prison penalty and fine. Let's not even get into MI-5 and their various abuses both domestic and international.

I'm unaware if any of these laws passed the British parliament, but the fact they were proposed or brought to vote in the first place indicates that there is extreme support for the establishment of a police state in the British government -- so if you live there, I'd be more worried about that in the short term than what's going on over here.

I would imagine other European governments have passed some similar laws, but I haven't done much research on it. I encourage other people to mention instances of this trend they've seen, if they know of any.

I believe that in order to defeat the police state regimes, people of the world will have to unite internationally in ways that has never happened before. If this cannot happen, then "1984" is the future that we will face. With global power of all types coalescing into the same few hands, there is no way that an ununited effort will ever make any progress.