Better to have never loved, blah blah [split from Blogs thread]

[Sharessa]

Mr. Freeze said:

Sweeping generalization, both baseless and ignorant.



See above.

Misogynist? Not really, but stupid nonetheless.

Every woman I've know who has tried to be more than friends has done that shit to me. Generalization, maybe, but my own life experience teaches me it's a universal truth.

DuckReconMajor said:

I took what you said as a joke but it was kinda misogynistic. Women aren't out there to tie men down, sometimes it's the man, but usually it's both parties falling into it together. I'm sure you understand that though, but it probably didn't come across in your post for some.

Something like that. It's probably just a societal construct that just about every woman I've ever met has acted like this. Just sort of how nearly everyone I know will continue buying products from a corporation despite hating said corporation with the reasoning that boycotts don't work because everyone will keep buying their product anyway. YEAH, YOU STUPID IDIOT, THAT'S YOU YOU'RE TALKING ABOUTKJHFAHD... Anyway, I'm sure people aren't actually that stupid, they just have society's broken logic locked into their brains.

E.J. said:

Can anyone give a universal description of love? Does it even exist, or is it more of a concept that multiple people all claim to have felt?

The funny part being that they have differing definitions of what it is...

Romantic love doesn't exist. It's just hormones. Every time I've been in "love" with some woman, I realized I really just wanted to fuck her and that's all it was.

Friendly love, brotastic love, camaraderie if you will, is entirely real, however, and the foundation of any sane society (NOTE: such a thing may not exist) and is the primal instinct of the preservation of our species, the thing that many religions consider the golden rule or spiritual love.

Bank said:

I think you don't understand the concept of a relationship and are trying to justify your lack of success in finding one by vilifying women in general.

Well, I think you obviously don't know shit about me.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe the reason your previous attempts at finding a relationship have gone awry is your own attitude toward them? Nobody's perfect, and one bad girlfriend doesn't mean they're all bad...but one denial-ridden single male justification attitude can definitely make it seem more like that.

Every woman I've known on a semi-romantic basis has flat out lied to me when I asked their feelings for me then turned around and got completely pissed at me when I believed them. This is why every relationship I've ever attempted has blown up on the launch pad. The world is full of crazy people.

On that note a lot of people on this forum seem to hold up their social inadequacies as positive and proof of some sort of solitary and independent male trope. Can't people just man up and go talk to others without deciding they exist to undermine your success or something?

Why don't you man up and accept the possibility that one can be a man without a woman?

Bank said:

See, there's that justification thing again.

Shut up, you're an idiot.

[Chopkinsca]

Gez said:

It's especially a problem with teenagers who tend to confuse raging hormones (and the desire not to be the last virgin of their class) with pure, absolute love. Then they get dumped by their girlfriend and attempt suicide as a result. Heh.

[The Lag]

gggmork said:

Sex is for animals and civilized humans don't seem like animals anymore. We've been self domesticated and fused to artificial technology.

i don't know what utopia you live in, but in the world i live in humans are animals with animal motivations. yeah, a large portion of the population is so repressed that they don't seem animal as much as automaton, but your science-fiction still doesn't fit.

[gggmork]

Its just that sex is natural and nature is pretty trampled by humanity right now. I step outside and there's endless slabs of asphalt covering the ground where plants should grow. Grass is 'allowed' to grow on people's lawns but its mowed and weeded. Worldwide travel put invasive species everywhere wreaking havoc on ecologies that didn't evolve defenses for them. All the animals are in cages at pounds and pet stores or in factory farms. There's pollution everywhere, humans caused the largest extinction since the dinosaurs. Nature was a mandelbrot-esque organic system and humans industrialized it into neatly squared off mowed lawns for 'aesthetics' I guess. It just doesn't seem like a place for something natural like love to blossum. I mean pocahontas won't be singing any songs around here. If my reality was still running around with local humans with spears, in a time before big brains developed wrong conclusions like religion that drove Apocalypto-esque organized sacrificing to appease gods and my behavior was my own self will and instincts without artificial laws permeating my being, sex and life would feel more natural.
Human genes evolved slowly to adapt to a long gone primitive environment. Now we change our environment much faster than our genes can keep up. For each generation, the gap between the modern environment and the one in which our genes adapted to is widening.
Really, I might be using some of this stuff as an excuse because its easier to stay inside and play videogames than talk to girls whose only purpose in life is to humuliate me and tease me with their venomy unobtainable sexyness. I think its all a prank. Sex doesn't exist. Other people don't even exist. The entire universe is contained by the ceiling of my basement.

[Craigs]

gggmork said:

Its just that sex is natural and nature is pretty trampled by humanity right now. I step outside and there's endless slabs of asphalt covering the ground where plants should grow. Grass is 'allowed' to grow on people's lawns but its mowed and weeded. Worldwide travel put invasive species everywhere wreaking havoc on ecologies that didn't evolve defenses for them. All the animals are in cages at pounds and pet stores or in factory farms. There's pollution everywhere, humans caused the largest extinction since the dinosaurs. Nature was a mandelbrot-esque organic system and humans industrialized it into neatly squared off mowed lawns for 'aesthetics' I guess. It just doesn't seem like a place for something natural like love to blossum. I mean pocahontas won't be singing any songs around here. If my reality was still running around with local humans with spears, in a time before big brains developed wrong conclusions like religion that drove Apocalypto-esque organized sacrificing to appease gods and my behavior was my own self will and instincts without artificial laws permeating my being, sex and life would feel more natural.
Human genes evolved slowly to adapt to a long gone primitive environment. Now we change our environment much faster than our genes can keep up. For each generation, the gap between the modern environment and the one in which our genes adapted to is widening.
Really, I might be using some of this stuff as an excuse because its easier to stay inside and play videogames than talk to girls whose only purpose in life is to humuliate me and tease me with their venomy unobtainable sexyness. I think its all a prank. Sex doesn't exist. Other people don't even exist. The entire universe is contained by the ceiling of my basement.

I blame society for my inability to get pussy too

[Creaphis]

Jeez, did this all split off from Bucket's thread about his business? I was just commending Bucket for attempting entrepreneurship. I think it's better to try to improve yourself and the world around you than not to try, even if failure is a real possibility.

The pro- and anti-relationship camps here are both taking this whole "debate" too seriously. I started dating a girl and I'm still dating her because I enjoy it. Relationships aren't the be-and-and-end-all of human experience, but they can be fun so it doesn't hurt to try one before you die.

The arguments that modern relationships are difficult, or in some way unnatural, are invalid in my experience. For some time I assumed that I would never enter a significant relationship; that it would be futile for me to even attempt it. Then, it turned out to be really easy. I asked a girl for her phone number with full confidence that she would give it to me, and she did. It's been easy and natural ever since.

[DuckReconMajor]

I know you were, this came more off of exp(x)'s comment than anything.

Yes, I understand you should try things even if failure is a possibility. I understand that. But I'm pretty sure it's well within my ability to drive to the store and buy some pears. However, I've got no reason to. So, buying some pears I may or may not eat is really just a waste of gas money.

Then of course there's "of course you want the pears, you're a male and therefore must want to fuck everything" or "of course you want the pears, they're your only way to true completion/happiness/soulmate/other bullshit". They won't get it, or they get it and are scared to admit it, or maybe I'm just wrong. Whatever.

[geo]

Eh think of however long you had joy in your life vs your new pain. You'll get over someone when you get under someone new :-)

I haven't had a relationship for a full year now, but I had dates with 24 women last year. I've come to realize that I'm so much happier not having to deal with other people's shit and problems. Maybe I'm just selfish, but I'd rather be able to just disconnect myself from someone and go my own way instead of helping someone deal with something.

Oh I'll still help my friends deal with things when they don't concern me... but I just don't want to be someone's crutch anymore.

Maybe only scummy women want relationships with me whereas I can still get a date with all types of women.

Another thing I've noticed since I've stopped dating for 6 months is that people end up in relationships with people due to timing and not because of who they're with. Kind of like right place right time and not right person.

[40oz]

Love and sex is like heroin and playing video games and browsing internet forums is not.

[Mithran Denizen]

Could've fooled me.

[Phobus]

I believe the phrase is "Better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all". Having tried both, I'd say it's true. When you've never loved you don't know what you're missing. When you are in love the world is an improved place, even if there's doubts, jealousy or whatever other shit that might go with a relationship. When you've lost a loved one for whatever reason, you have good memories that only improve over time, as the minor bad things filter out, the good gains sentimental value and any truly bad memories stay forever as a reminder of the lessons to have been learnt too.

[phobosdeimos1]

Ladies please please, there's hope if you don't have the exclusively natural skills to attract women, have some amazing sexual encounters with Escorts.

[Stroggos]

In my opinion those people here who have never had a girlfriend and are over the age of about 16 really need to get out more. You simply can't have an opinion on love if you've never experienced it. You say you watch people change when they're with girlfriends and whatnot but didn't you stop to think maybe they wanted to change for a girl? I myself have been single for a few months now and really sometimes it's hard without someone once you've experienced it. Before I started dating I pretty much had the same view on the matter but you do change your tune once you find someone. To me this thread seems a bit pointless as it's simply a teenage view on a pretty adult thing. However what Phobus says is fairly true, and I pretty well fully agree.

[myk]

Danarchy said:
Generalization, maybe, but my own life experience teaches me it's a universal truth.

It's probably just a societal construct that just about every woman I've ever met has acted like this.

But those women met you. Did they do the same to every other guy? Only if they did would it tend to be universal. Societal constructs don't "exist" except as a series of people that have had related experiences and thus tend toward similar perceptions or reactions, in somewhat vague ways.

Romantic love doesn't exist. It's just hormones. Every time I've been in "love" with some woman, I realized I really just wanted to fuck her and that's all it was.

Friendly love, brotastic love, camaraderie if you will, is entirely real, however, and the foundation of any sane society (NOTE: such a thing may not exist) and is the primal instinct of the preservation of our species, the thing that many religions consider the golden rule or spiritual love.

Romantic love does exist, it's just linked to fucking. In many situations, sexual drives don't lead to actual fucking, yet that can generate friendships, or these may mix somehow. But all other friendships are also linked to interests, and it may be possible to classify them according to what key relational aspects generate them. Theres' no such thing as "pure undiluted friendship" and even "romantic friendship" is more real than such a thing.

Stroggos said:
You simply can't have an opinion on love if you've never experienced it.

Such people can and do have an opinion, but if they want to be honest, mainly to themselves, they need to understand that their opinion is the way it is because of how they are and what they've experienced.

[hex11]

Who needs babes? Especially when you're invisible to them anyway. They're only interested in the Bull anyway. He's got in goin' on! Thinking about this just eat up precious time that's best spent logging into your AIX account, while enjoying a pot of coffee and the nightly cabinet-slamming soiree courtesy of the Roach Motel. Wow, even these computer nerds on the listserv are obsessed with the wild thing. Maybe joining a monastery would be better?
http://losernet.tripod.com/virginidx.html

[DuckReconMajor]

Stroggos said:

didn't you stop to think maybe they wanted to change for a girl?

I don't quite understand what you are saying. Of course you will want to change if you are with a girl. That's human nature. I don't agree with Danarchy that women try to entrap you in a relationship so they can force you to do things. I believe when you do truly get attached to someone you will want to do things and change for that person. Nothing wrong with that. But everyone has the right not to if they so choose.

Stroggos said:

I myself have been single for a few months now and really sometimes it's hard without someone once you've experienced it.

And this contradicts the "loved and lost" saying.

Stroggos said:

To me this thread seems a bit pointless

No thread is pointless.

myk said:

Such people can and do have an opinion, but if they want to be honest, mainly to themselves, they need to understand that their opinion is the way it is because of how they are and what they've experienced.

As are all opinions.

[DuckReconMajor]

40oz said:

Love and sex is like heroin and playing video games and browsing internet forums is not.

Actually, the point you are making here is exactly correct. Everything that motivates you to do something can be considered a "heroin" of sorts. However, someone who chooses not to play video games or go on the internet is often seen in a different light than someone who chooses to be single.

[Stroggos]

Also a word of warning, if you are after a certain girl don't ever bring up the topic of cot death, otherwise known as SIDS, as a joke. Because I think you'll find women generally get offended by it. I've made this mistake many times, I've also made similar mistakes in relation to the topic of teenage pregnancy.

[Sharessa]

Stroggos said:

In my opinion those people here who have never had a girlfriend and are over the age of about 16 really need to get out more. You simply can't have an opinion on love if you've never experienced it. You say you watch people change when they're with girlfriends and whatnot but didn't you stop to think maybe they wanted to change for a girl? I myself have been single for a few months now and really sometimes it's hard without someone once you've experienced it. Before I started dating I pretty much had the same view on the matter but you do change your tune once you find someone. To me this thread seems a bit pointless as it's simply a teenage view on a pretty adult thing. However what Phobus says is fairly true, and I pretty well fully agree.

Nah, I get out, or at least have. I've been on many dates in my day, but they all ended up horribly. It all ends with the woman being pissed that I'm not able to read her thoughts, then me saying that now that I know her thoughts then lets to such and such, then her saying that it's too late now that she has told me, whatever the fuck that means. And that doesn't count all the times they ditched me outright instead of even showing up. Like I said before, if this is how I find love, then it's not worth the damn effort. I have better things to do.

myk said:

But those women met you. Did they do the same to every other guy? Only if they did would it tend to be universal.

Yeah, I know. I'm a self-centered asshole.

Societal constructs don't "exist" except as a series of people that have had related experiences and thus tend toward similar perceptions or reactions, in somewhat vague ways.

What are you talking about? I mean they are societal constructs insofar as they're ideas driven into their heads by peer pressure, education, and mass media as opposed to some sort of instinctual or genetic urge.

Stroggos said:

Also a word of warning, if you are after a certain girl don't ever bring up the topic of cot death, otherwise known as SIDS, as a joke. Because I think you'll find women generally get offended by it. I've made this mistake many times, I've also made similar mistakes in relation to the topic of teenage pregnancy.

Wow, really...

And people say I'm tasteless.

Why did this topic get revived? I thought it could stay dead.

[magicsofa]

If a relationship is easy, it's probably not worth it

[Stroggos]

Danarchy said:

Wow, really...

And people say I'm tasteless.

Why did this topic get revived? I thought it could stay dead.

I know a little off topic pay it no head if you wish but it's true, and I learn from my mistakes unless it's funny to throw a cot death joke or the odd teenage preggo joke, I find it rather amusing. Either wya continue with the topic.

[40oz]

DuckReconMajor said:

Actually, the point you are making here is exactly correct. Everything that motivates you to do something can be considered a "heroin" of sorts.

What? The only thing doing heroin motivates you to do is more heroin.

[Megamur]

Is this another one of those, "Love sucks and I don't need it (because nobody likes me). Also, women are evil because I got dumped a bunch of times (and I'm a perfect person, so it must be something wrong with them)" threads? Oh, I love these.

[Maes]

In retrospect, it seems unfair that I got all that shit just a year ago about that whole "Way of Maes" gig, and often by the same people who make a misery and misogyny display of themselves right here. Inconsistent, much? And yeah, the "Way of Maes" may have had a "venting" and somehow provocative function, I admit, but some of you guys sound like you're the real deal. Which in this case is not a good thing.

[phobosdeimos1]

Megamur said:

Is this another one of those, "Love sucks and I don't need it (because nobody likes me). Also, women are evil because I got dumped a bunch of times (and I'm a perfect person, so it must be something wrong with them)" threads? Oh, I love these.

Yes.

Men are from mars and women are from Venus, if everyone understood that from birth every man would be getting laid.

However here's the controversial clincher..

I do find in general men have a harder time, and it's very easy to get angry about it due to the unfair elemenent.

The one bit of advice every man should be taught though is that girls of a younger age up until a certain age of less than perfect fertility, will find it insanely hard to be attracted to a man who is not 'better' than them.

[hex11]

Shouldn't be too hard to find some girls you can beat in deathmatch. Just stay away from scrapbooking duels and you'll be okay. ;)

[DuckReconMajor]

40oz said:

What? The only thing doing heroin motivates you to do is more heroin.

Yep, and surfing the internet motivates you to surf the internet more. Playing video games, especially in today's age where people learn as a trade how to make games more addicting, motivates you to play more video games.

Megamur said:

Is this another one of those, "Love sucks and I don't need it (because nobody likes me). Also, women are evil because I got dumped a bunch of times (and I'm a perfect person, so it must be something wrong with them)" threads? Oh, I love these.

Well, the important thing is that you've found a way to feel superior to both.

Maes said:

In retrospect, it seems unfair that I got all that shit just a year ago about that whole "Way of Maes" gig, and often by the same people who make a misery and misogyny display of themselves right here. Inconsistent, much? And yeah, the "Way of Maes" may have had a "venting" and somehow provocative function, I admit, but some of you guys sound like you're the real deal. Which in this case is not a good thing.

WTF Maes, I hope you're not talking about me.

I told you I loved most of Way of Maes. There were parts I didn't agree with (mostly the ones that line up with what Danarchy's said in this thread, which I've said I don't agree with). When I couldn't find it on your site I was very disappointed (and still am).

[Quast]

phobosdeimos1 said:

The one bit of advice every man should be taught though is that girls of a younger age up until a certain age of less than perfect fertility, will find it insanely hard to be attracted to a man who is not 'better' than them.

[Mr. Freeze]

I just don't give a fuck. I don't have the money to have a girlfriend right now, but I've dated plenty before. And shock horror...most of my breakups have been mutual! Fucking unheard of, I know.

[Mr. T]

Mr. Freeze said:

I just don't give a fuck. I don't have the money to have a girlfriend right now, but I've dated plenty before. And shock horror...most of my breakups have been mutual! Fucking unheard of, I know.

I think you need a hug! HAHA