Dutch rethink Christianity for a doubtful world

copying and pasting the entire article is not necessary

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I'm not sure what to think, on one hand it could be that the church has finally got its head out of its own ass and decided to finally do things a little differently now.

On the other hand it could be that they know that this whole god thing isn't working anymore and very little of this generation still believes in it minus those who've been around for a while, so they're trying to find another way of brainwashing our youth and rolling in some extra dough in the process.

It looks like they're reaching out to the waverers who've rejected the old dogma but are looking for something to believe in.

I liked this bit - "A study by the Free University of Amsterdam found that one-in-six clergy in the PKN and six other smaller denominations was either agnostic or atheist."

I have to ask, what the hell is the point of going to church when you don't believe in God?

Meeting people? Place as good as any.

Cyanosis said:

On the other hand it could be that they know that this whole god thing isn't working anymore and very little of this generation still believes .

Citation needed

DoomUK said:

I have to ask, what the hell is the point of going to church when you don't believe in God?

They don't believe in God as a supernatural, sentient entity that created and oversees the universe. But they do believe in the moral and the philosophy presented by Jesus Christ.

To me, it makes them Christians at least as much as those who embrace Jesus' divine nature and claim that He is their Savior constantly, yet utterly ignore the Christ's message beyond the supernatural and afterlife aspect.

Now you watch Jesus is gonna walk in and knock the money tables over and really wreck the friggin' place.

He'll have Elijas and Elias with 'im.

*snicker*

DoomUK said:

I have to ask, what the hell is the point of going to church when you don't believe in God?

Community.

A desperate attempt for an obsolete institution to stay relevant. This is really just the logical next step after decades of backpedalling on the part of religion.

There was a time when the Bible and the dogma taught in churches was assumed to be literally true, even by the most intelligent and well-educated members of society. Over time, scientific advances have steadily eroded those assumptions, and only the most heavily deluded fundamentalists still hold on to any kind of literal interpretation.

Every time a religious claim is shown to be false, religious people come up with an alternative explanation. Turns out we evolved? Genesis must have just been an analogy or fable, then. Changing attitudes to homosexuality? Just ignore the parts of the Bible that condemn it. It was only a matter of time before someone applied the same reasoning to the central claim of the Christian religion - that a god exists.

DoomUK said:

I have to ask, what the hell is the point of going to church when you don't believe in God?

You're looking at it backwards. Churches don't just exist because lots of people decided an idea was true and decided to form a special club. People have those ideas because the church indoctrinated them into believing it. Religions are essentially self-propagating institutions. Religious ideas are a means to an end - the goal is to acquire followers so that the institution can continue.

fraggle said:

Churches don't just exist because lots of people decided an idea was true and decided to form a special club. People have those ideas because the church indoctrinated them into believing it. Religions are essentially self-propagating institutions. Religious ideas are a means to an end - the goal is to acquire followers so that the institution can continue.

Much the same can be said about another of life's great irrelevancies - political parties. <raises flameshield>

"Progress of a kind."

I don't go to church, and don't believe in God. I have people at work who believe in God, and they are a weird bunch of people. They really don't like it when you start swearing next to them. They feel like they are better than anyone else who doesn't believe in God. For me they are just a bunch of brainwashed morons.

What is this I don't even

Someone needs to open up a Unitarain Universalist fellowship or two in the Netherlands, methinks. If you really want to go to church but don't really believe in anything, that's probably your best option. :P

Planky said:

Citation needed

I feel Christianity isn't taken as seriously now as it used to be, it only makes sense that the church will have to find new ways to convince people, especially the new generation that doesn't believe quite the same way as it's ancestors did. This god character just isn't selling as well anymore except to those who grew up in said circles and continue to spread and keep their ideas alive.

No doubt there's been an increase in agnosticism, atheism, or interests in anything other than Christianity in the modern age. And it's definitely more mainstream now to debunk/hate god/be sacrilegious unlike the past. Not to discount that there was still plenty of doubts raised long ago back in the dark ages, but at the time it was 20 to 1, with 1 being the non-believers. Now it's the other way around. There's still a whole lot of nuts today, but that's just old family trees and bloodlines being preserved.

Christianity doesn't have the extremist fundamentalist backings of the modern Islam or make as much noise as they used to anymore (except those very small groups that aren't being loud enough). The days of Inquisition and the crusades are thankfully over because Christianity is dying. So it wouldn't surprise me if this was their way of trying to revive it, and possibly tack on an additional hidden fee that ends up screwing us all in the long run.

With this religion having such a horrible track record, it's impossible for me to take it seriously anymore.

fraggle said:
There was a time when the Bible and the dogma taught in churches was assumed to be literally true, even by the most intelligent and well-educated members of society.

[citation needed]

From what I've been informed, allegory and metaphor were part of religious philosophy and debate from the very beginning of Christianity, and much before that, as religions aren't made in a void but inherit influences from ages of previous religions.

You're looking at it backwards. Churches don't just exist because lots of people decided an idea was true and decided to form a special club. People have those ideas because the church indoctrinated them into believing it. Religions are essentially self-propagating institutions. Religious ideas are a means to an end - the goal is to acquire followers so that the institution can continue.

On this topic, you're about as deep as a religious fundamentalist is on life or a by-the-book commie about economy and politics. We might as well describe languages like that, as well. Or, hey, science itself. Indeed, religion is much like language, with a more gregarious and basic or broad functionality. A language that exceeds immediacy and applies to a cultural framework. Your utterly political and individualist description of religion, devoid of the social and biological aspects that generate it and much akin to a conspiracy theory, is a negation of the sciences you supposedly defend.

Cyanosis said:
Christianity doesn't have the extremist fundamentalist backings of the modern Islam or make as much noise as they used to anymore (except those very small groups that aren't being loud enough).

Between the Tea Party and the Taliban, I'd say they aren't much different, so saying that Islam is more "fundamentalist" seems rather cheap. A few Islamic terrorists doing a lot of noise out of a population of about 2 billion doesn't change that.

This is beautiful!