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Vesperas_

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

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Having never played any of the Elder Scrolls games, I watched my friend play a bit of this one last night. It seemed pretty immersive, as well as a huge time-sink, and the demonstration was capped off by his first solo showdown with a dragon against an enormous mountainside. He killed the beast in a pretty epic battle, absorbed its soul in a sweet visual effect... then was curb-stomped by a troll a few moments later after healing up. That sort of hurt the effect but it still tempted me to try it out myself sometime.

Oh yeah, and watching him try to take on some giants was pretty funny. All three times he got killed instantly in one hit, one of them knocking him so far into the sky that he would have cleared the aforementioned mountain with no difficulty. I doubt that was the intended effect but some sort of physics glitch, but it was still hilarious.

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Craigs said:

I don't think enemies level with you at all. Yesterday I entered a dwemer ruin only to be killed almost instantly by a centurion sphere. I haven't gone back since but I'm pretty sure that once I've leveled up a bit and grabbed better gear they'll be much easier.


Perhaps not, but I did read an article saying some enemies are randomly assigned a level, relative to your level, when you first enter dungeons. For example, a dungeon may have a level scale of 15-30, so if you enter at 10, you'll be assigned level 15 monsters. At least that is what I picked up out of it. I could be totally mistaken.

Edit: This will have to do.

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Vile said:

Oh yeah, and watching him try to take on some giants was pretty funny. All three times he got killed instantly in one hit, one of them knocking him so far into the sky that he would have cleared the aforementioned mountain with no difficulty. I doubt that was the intended effect but some sort of physics glitch, but it was still hilarious.


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Sig-ma said:

I like the leveling system in Skyrim over Oblivion.

The system is almost exactly the same as in oblivion. There are only 3 differences, 1 of which is rather major:

1. In oblivion you had base ability scores, which could be raised, and and your scores in int, end and will determined how much health, magicka and endurance you got. Now we just pick one of the 3 to increase every level. It's an interesting fix to oblivions most serious problem, that is using certain abilities or not using them caused you to not be able to increase your base ability scores as you would like. Lots of people didn't like this. I completely understand why, but it never bothered me too much because oblivion was a pretty easy game regardless.

2. In oblivion you choose 7 major skills. Getting skill increases in those and only those is what leveled you up. You could cast all the illusion magic you want if it was not a major skill and the only consequence was a guaranteed +5 int on level up. This is why no one picked athletics or acrobatics as major skills and why they have been removed in skyrim...although it does make me sad that in skyrim I'll never be able to run 50 mph and jump 20 feet in the air eventually :(

3. In skyrim you get to choose talents that were given automatically to you in oblivion. Obviously they've added a few more too. I wouldn't mind this if it worked.

It just seems that they've moved the issue people had with ability scores onto skill points.

It might seems like I'm complaining too much, but I really do enjoy the game quite a bit.

In Oblivion, archery was much more potent early-on (probably too powerful actually).

Early on? Nah it only got more and more powerful. Too powerful? Yes indeed. Doubly so if you had a high sneak. Even more so if you used triple damage poisons.

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Craigs said:

PA comic


Yeah I showed my friend that. There was indeed a mammoth there, but apparently just trespassing on their camp was enough to earn their direspect. A club to the face settled that dispute.

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Quast said:

Early on? Nah it only got more and more powerful. Too powerful? Yes indeed. Doubly so if you had a high sneak. Even more so if you used triple damage poisons.


Agreed. In Oblivion, I always used a stealth and marksmanship focused combat style. However, at higher levels, marksmanship did kind of fall off in power. I remember nailing individual enemies with dozens and dozens of arrows before they went down, even using poisons, enchanted bows and opening from stealth (with my bow also having a chance to paralyze and my arrows ignoring armor due to having maxed out stealth).

Overall, I feel the combat in Skyrim is more fulfilling but definitely agree it can become very one-sided or difficult. I've found myself in several battles that I didn't have a chance in hell of winning. I feel archery is much more balanced in Skyrim over marksmanship in Oblivion. I'm simply having a hard-time with close-combat situations. Seems like I'm constantly running away to heal and having to re-open with my bow from stealth.

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I miss acrobatics so much - I've played as a thieving acrobat since Daggerfall. I also miss functional inventory/barter UIs, where I can sort items, see info about multiple items simultaneously, and view a paper doll of my character. There's certainly enough unused space on the screen for all this.

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I've been reading that the trolls, and especially the giants, are tougher than the dragons in this game, at least initially. Do the dragons get tougher as you go through the game?

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On the off chance I decide to buy this game, any suggestions on what upgrades I might need for my computer for it to run "decently" (~30FPS, 1440x900)?

I have an Asus M2N68-AM plus and an AMD Athlon II 255 X2 (3.1GHz dual-core). Radeon 2600 Pro. Power supply is some kind of 400W thing I believe. I'm hoping that the video card and possibly power supply is the only thing needing to change. I welcome all suggestions that don't involve the mother/CPU, otherwise I'd probably just forget the whole thing.

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AndrewB said:

On the off chance I decide to buy this game, any suggestions on what upgrades I might need for my computer for it to run "decently" (~30FPS, 1440x900)?

I have an Asus M2N68-AM plus and an AMD Athlon II 255 X2 (3.1GHz dual-core). Radeon 2600 Pro. Power supply is some kind of 400W thing I believe. I'm hoping that the video card and possibly power supply is the only thing needing to change. I welcome all suggestions that don't involve the mother/CPU, otherwise I'd probably just forget the whole thing.


How much ram do you have? Get it up to 4GB and you should be good.

You'll have to get a new power supply. A 500W PSU is good. I'd recommend an ATI Radeon 5770/6770 (they're the same card, just with a different number).

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I just looked up the system requirements on PC Gamer. I made the unfortunate mistake of reading some of the user comments. Seriously, these dipshits are complaining about the graphics based on the fact that game only requires 6GB of hard drive space. No, they weren't basing it on actual screenshots, not that that's excusable either.

I don't know what's needed to fix the current state of games. Other than some sort of massive neutron bomb that's specifically engineered to the genetic code of modern gamers, I'm pretty much out of ideas.

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BilboHicks said:

I've been reading that the trolls, and especially the giants, are tougher than the dragons in this game, at least initially. Do the dragons get tougher as you go through the game?

Trolls? Now way, no how.

Giants vs dragons though? Giants walk faster than your running speed and can clobber you fairly quickly. But they are passive unless you intrude into their camps. they can be avoided easily enough. Dragons can't and are always hostile. Dragons have a tendency to fly around making them difficult to deal with unless you are a very good shot with magic or a bow and arrow. They also have a habit of getting distracted by wildlife and other npcs since a battle with them will have them cover large tracts of land as they circle around you. I've killed 5 so far, 2 related to quests and 3 random unnamed dragons and the last one I killed didn't care I was shooting it too much and seemed more concerned about the mudcrabs and elk that were about.

However if there aren't any other npcs to get in the way, and they focus on you, dragons are certainly deadly as hell. Because the only time you're really going to get a chance at a good shot at them is when they are stationary and breathing fire on you.

With all of that said, ice wraiths are the toughest thing I've come across. I've never had a dragon kill me, but I had a pack of 3 wraiths destroy me a couple of times before I could pass through a certain area.

AndrewB said:

stuff

All I can say is, skyrim runs ALOT better than oblivion does on my machine. How the hell that works, I do not know.

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AndrewB said:

I use 32-bit Windows XP. I think that means there's no point in going beyond 2GB.

Nope. There's no point going beyond 3GB. Each program is allocated a 2GB page, but definitely get a bit more RAM so that it doesn't need to swap in and out to disk so often.

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It's just time to lose 32-bit XP. Being able to use loads of RAM is awesome.

The funny thing is Skyrim seems to run better for me than Morrowind dose. Sure, the framerate is higher in Morrowind, but both it and Oblivion have seriously stutter issues. There's a mod for Oblivion that reduces this by changing how it does things like memory allocation. Scary shit. The scripting engine is ghastly slow too. So far Skyrim seems to be much better in this regard.

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Quast said:

All I can say is, skyrim runs ALOT better than oblivion does on my machine. How the hell that works, I do not know.

Me neither, because for me, the game is more demanding than Battlefield 3.

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kristus said:

Me neither, because for me, the game is more demanding than Battlefield 3.

Yeah, it's hard to believe Skyrim runs better than a 5 year old game. Even with all those graphics-enhancement mods Oblivion should barely make a modern system wince.

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Some impressions:

-Steam. I don't feel like writing more about that.

-No birthsigns and custom classes (or any classes at all) is kinda lame. The stones don't count, Oblivion had them too.

-I find it kind of weird that you can't block while dual wielding. Even if you wield a spell in one hand and a weapon in another like I do. Makes combat feel very "hit-and-run" and Hexen-esque, in a bad way.

-Speaking of spells, there is a lack of them and Destruction is underwhelming. The perks are bad too as the only way to raise your damage is to specialize. I chose Shock, as I've never noticed the burn DoT last more than a couple of seconds, the stamina damage from frost seems nice but both elements' projectiles are TOO SLOW. Fire and ice are worthless vs. dragons as you can't hit them. Lightning Bolt for instance travels instantaneously. I like Flames and Sparks (I especially love slowly finishing surrendered enemies with Sparks. I'm the Goddamn Palpatine) but are there not any better versions of them? 8 damage per second just doesn't cut it. Runes seem to do a lot more damage than just the listed 50.
Removing spellcrafting, one of the trademark features of TES, is inexcusable. As it is you just have more hoops to jump through to make your own spells.

-The soundtrack is as boring as unremarkable as Oblivion's, but on the bright side there's at least one Morrowind track ported.

-Level scaling, the most complained-about "feature" of Oblivion, is back. Once again if you level skills that don't directly affect combat (speech, lockpicking, pickpocket, enchanting, smithing) the enemies will grow too strong. Not as blatant as in vanilla Oblivion but still. I have to constantly upgrade my armor to stay alive for more than a few hits from normal enemies. I wear heavy armor and I still feel I die too easily, even though I put ~60% of my leveling stats on Health.

-Perks: First of all, why "perks"? Why not "talents" or "abilities" or something more fitting to the fantasy setting? Most are 3 or 5-pointers you have to take because they are the most effective. Many are useless in combat or useless in general (more gold from selling? less reloading when pickpocketing?), I especially expect fully upgraded (100 smithing) and enchanted (100 enchanting) items to be the best in the game, as the perks that go into enchanting and smithing do absolutely nothing in combat.
I haven't found much use for speech, and if it's done in a pants-on-head-retarded manner like in Fallout 3 (percentage instead of hard checks) I will definitely not invest on it.

-The UI. I really just have to say this, so that everyone knows. I really, absolutely must. Let it be known. Let the word be known: the UI is shit. I thought they couldn't do worse than Oblivion's default UI but they've outdone themselves. On many occasions I've misclicked dialogue options because the UI doesn't understand "hover mouse over option and click", the inventory doesn't LET YOU SORT ANYTHING by weight, name, etc, the skill tab, oh god the skills. Okay, the constellation thing is cute, but why the hell can't there just be a single list with all the skills and their levels? The tree could open in a separate page or something, but why this? Now, the skills are just lined up, you can scroll through them at the rough rate of one per second, no scroll bars, no nothing. The UI is almost as bad as Borderland's, and that's saying something. The mods will fix it, I'm sure, but I'm paying for the game as it is, not what it may be after tons of (conflicting) user modifications.

-Vertical mouse sensitivity is related to FPS, horizontal isn't. This is a huge mistake and extremely irritating. Just another sign that they either didn't test with the PC at all or they didn't care about the tester feedback.

-Dragons are kinda good. I'm impressed with how fluidly they move in Gamebryo (I didn't believe from day one in Toddler's bullshit about a new engine) but they are kinda easy. I'm playing on the normal (adept?) difficulty. One strange bug makes fighting them really easy: When they land, run to their side and just keep hitting their flank. The dragon won't turn but he does this ground stomp which does little damage and can easily be healed with potions (a glaring balancing flaw, which makes stronger alchemy health, stamina and mana potions almost useless). After some time he starts to fly again and you can zap him and/or outheal the damage from his breaths with Healing.

-I've found two quest items so far with weight (1 and 4). This is bullshit, developers, don't do this. ESPECIALLY when you have no pointers where to take them to get rid of them.

-Racials: Bretons and NORDS have better bonuses to Speech than Imperials, who have none at all. What the hell?

-Combat is better than Oblivion's, but enemies (and the PC) could have more HP. Now blocks are actually easy to break with a power attack, and I don't find myself staggering at all, even without Tower of Strength. Sometimes you and the enemies suddenly do a one-hit KO attack from full health. Why? And why does the camera sometimes switch to third person view? It's incredibly annoying, and usually I just wonder if I died. And unlike Fallout 3, there's no option to turn them off. Also, hitting a guy with an axe or a sword feels much better now. Maybe the better hit sounds and increased blood splatter has something to do with it.

-The bars. The BARS. Goddammit, how can they screw up something as simple as health bars? The health bars deplete from both sides, just like in Oblivion and Fallout 3. This is incredibly annoying. Now, what's the most important aspect of a health bar, or any HUD in general? To provide to you the information you need. The health bar as it is fails in that task. It's VERY easy to think you have more HP left than you actually have and die because of that. Look at the inventory screen and what will you see? You have less HP than you thought. This happens constantly. I get why they did it like this, the mana (magicka) bar depletes from the right, the stamina bar from the left and the HP bar from both sides. But I don't care about aesthetics in a HUD. I care about functionality.

-Fatigue renamed to Stamina and given an actual use: I like it. In the past Fatigue was very confusing: if I have a lot of fatigue, does that mean my character is tired? If I don't have much fatigue, doesn't that mean I'm not tired? Stamina just works better. Power attacks use up a lot more than before, and they're more useful in the past. In Oblivion power attacks were used when the opponent staggered, but in Skyrim power attacks are very good block breakers, and you can hit before the opponent recovers from the flinch. Sprinting is a very good use of the fatigue bar, but it IS extremely strange that running doesn't affect you fatigue regeneration at all. You can jump around all day too.

-The art style is much better than Oblivion's, in fact Oblivion had no art style. Everything was engineered to be as generic as possible to give console players an easily accessible playground to fool around in. Skyrim as an area isn't as unique as, say, Vvardenfell, but it's a definite upgrade. The Nordic environment is nowhere as alien as Vvardenfell, but the varying architecture and landscapes make for a much more interesting world that Cyrodiil ever was. Imperials look like Romans again, too. Races in general are unique again, unlike in Oblivion where the variance was mostly in skin and eye color, and height.

-There is an incredibly annoying bug where the game freezes for a few seconds while walking in any large cell.

-Children can't be killed. Nothing that mods won't fix but as it is, it's extremely irritating hearing a brat trash-talk you and being able to do nothing about it. Just you wait, my pretty. I'll bide my time and get revenge on you, you little shit.

-On that note there are immortal essential characters.

-I feel that the increased blood and gore (Oblivion was originally 12+ or Teen, and Skyrim is 18+ or Mature) contributes nothing at all to the atmosphere, and just feels tacked on.

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Increased gore? I thought it was decreased, but then again, I do play Oblivion with Deadly Reflex 5, which puts the gore to OVER 9000. :D

Yeah, I find even the restricted level scaling to be frustrating. The Bethesda forums are full of people who think Morrowind's design was somehow retarded, but it really was fun to extricate myself from impossible situations as a thief. If the devs ever ask me what I would prefer I'm just going to point them at a mod like Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul. Level scaling may not have been uterrly gone there, but it was damn fun.

On that note, I found a dwemer ruin in the bottom of a grotto. As soon as that huge, frost-spewing centaurion came my way I ran away screaming. I dunno if that's a side effect of level scaling, or if I'm not supposed to hang out in there for a few levels, but that thing was untouchable.

The sky rendering, backwards moonlight and interior lightsource design are still pissing me off. This isn't 1997; the widnows need to be emitting the light, not sitting next to it, damnit.

The map blows. Why do I get a 3D Google Earth in Skyrim? I don't want a satellite view; I want a map. If they want to do a 3D map they could at least give us some more robust zoom and camera controls.

The UI in Skyrim manages to copy most of the bad points of Daggerfall's UI and then add a few of its own thanks to the weird mouse support and random key bindings. The more I think about it the more I'm shockecd by how much these weird vertical inventory lists mirror Daggerfall. At least in 1996 they had an excuse with 320x200 resolution.

Aside from the skies, the exteriors are quite fun to explore. I fell off a waterfall last nigh -- a REAL waterfall! It was huge, the current was really fast and it was all a bit scary. Had to fast travel to get my companion back.

They finally added something so you can put books on a shelf. The result usually looks like my shelf, but that's ok. Too bad they didn't do anything about manipulating regular clutter.

I started out being unsure of the dungeons because I didn't like the first one I cleared SomethingOrOther Barrow. That one was too linear and had a climate that somehow didn't fit with the blowing snow outside. The rest of them don't seem to annoy me like that.

Lockpicking perks look pretty stupid. I can pick master locks anyway with some patience and I only lost four picks on the last one I tried (out of more than 40 in my inventory).

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As someone who hated Oblivion for not being Morrowind, I'm loving Skyrim. Oblivion tried too hard to be a balance between an action game (Skyrim) and a strategy game (Morrowind) and failed at being either.

Thoughts.

- Fluid combat, feels more visceral.

- Roman Legion Imperials is a major plus. (Still doesn't make up for Oblivion turning Cyrodiil into a temperate climate instead of a jungle like it was supposed to be.)

- Third person isn't completely pointless and is actually fun to play in.

- Spell landmines are awesome.

- AI seems less retarded. (Although it's still pretty retarded.)

- Shouts are awesome.

- Power attacks that don't suck, blocking, sprinting, dual casting, are all also awesome.

- Fuck everyone, I love perks.

- Having all skills be able to level you is great.

- Not being able to pick major and minor skills sucks balls.

- Bastardized port to the PC. I actually bought the game for the 360 because I knew the PC version was going to be borderline unplayable until it was modded to all hell and back. Playing on the console, the hud, UI, inventory, and overall feel of the game is great; at the same time if I was playing this on the PC I would be complaining to all hell about those very same things.

- I still hate fast travel. (Even if I don't use it.)

- Not having awesome offensive spells outside of destruction sucks. I'm still waiting for offensive levitation or offensive mark and recall. (Or for those to be put back in the game.)

- Soundtrack is the same as every TES game - two or three memorable songs in a sea of forgettable crap.

@hervoheebo - I really want to see this level scaling you're talking about. I've yet to encounter any bandits running around in glass armor with daedric weapons, nor wildlife suddenly growing more powerful. Enemies seem to be able to kill you still at higher levels, but a giant axe to the face should kill you regardless of your level.

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I haven't bought the game but the fact that they took out armor/weapon degrading and repairing, stuck greeves together with the cuirass, added no new/returning weapons whatsoever, no seperate skills per weapons, no spell creation and breaking the traditional style with perks, and barely any story besides killing a dragon and gaining (assuming) unbalanced shouts (not to mention yet another human land for the fourth time :P) feels like a turn off for me, at the very least they could have made it possible to mod all that stuff back in but noo. Also forcing steam upon everyone who buys the game retail when not everybody can obtain due to their area or afford a decent internet connection is ludicrous. Oblivion was my first Elder Scrolls game and I loved it dispite the limit with what could be modded into it and the awesome mod someone made which featured timed dismemberment/decapitation and cutting the torso off, freezing people into solid ice and breaking them into chunks and turning people into smoking crisps with the flame and shock spells. I doubt this mod will be doable for Skyrim.

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Yeah, I love Skyrim too. I have more time on it already than I do with Rage, despite beating Rage twice and I've only experienced one noteworthy bug. I think it was an anomaly, as it only happened after extended play and I was unable to reproduce it.

That said, my only complaint still is with how the mouse reacts while in menus. I've been able to bypass it using the WASD keys however, so at least I have an option. The perk and new leveling system feel a lot better to me. The leveling system in Oblivion was retarded and barely anyone played a pre-set class anyway. Enemy scaling feels a lot more appropriate and balanced than in Oblivion. As with any massive, do whatever you want RPG, a leveling scale of some sort is required or entire quest-lines would become extremely mundane and easy. I linked a thread that somewhat explains how it works but it works more closely to the system in Fallout: New Vegas with some Oblivion thrown in to keep exploration interesting even at high levels.

As with complaints on being unable to block while dual-wielding or lockpicking perks. Seriously? Blocking while dual-wielding weapons or spells would be ridiculous and overpowered. Think about it. The lockpicking perks I think are more for someone who wants to easily level lockpicking or doesn't care for the mini-game (since the perks allow you to basically bypass skill locks, while still granting experience). The major reason for the lockpicking perks for your average person however, is to be able to quickly unlock doors or chests without being noticed since time continues to pass while you're picking a lock. They all actually look useful to me. The value of the novice and apprentice lock perks seems less useful once you have Quick Hands, but that's kind of the point. The answer to the usefulness of the them can be best explained by looking at the perks themselves.

Anyway, I'm very happy with Skyrim. I had high expectations for it but still assumed there would be issues and bugs everywhere, so I'm fairly happy that this is easily the least buggy and issue-prone Bethesda game I've ever played. Funny how I have fewer issues with it than Rage, despite Rage being about 1/50th the game.

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I agree with Aliotroph? about the map. One other thing I don't like about the map is I get no sense at all of what the province is actually shaped like and where the borders to the other provinces are located. No biggie but it does seem odd.

Like Sig-ma, I'm very happy with Skyrim. Enough yapping, I'm going back in there..

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Doomsfall said:

breaking the traditional style with perks

oblivion had these, only they were gained automatically.

and barely any story besides killing a dragon

1. No one plays TES for the main story

2. That's but a small part of the main story in skyrim anyway. The story is about how the racist nords want to keep their homeland pure and snow white while the elf controlled empire wants to enforce it's authority over the people of skyrim...and you the player making a decision as to who to side with.

3. Do you seriously NOT realize how much shit there is to do in TES games besides the main story? I've got 40 hours into skyrim already and I've played maybe 3 hours worth of the main quest. I had 600+ hours into oblivion and the furthest I ever got into the main quest was bringing jaufree and martin to cloud ruler temple. I stopped caring at that point. I've still never finished the mages guild quests and have never even touched the fighters guild ones.

at the very least they could have made it possible to mod all that stuff back in but noo....I doubt this mod will be doable for Skyrim.

What? Where exactly are you getting your information that skyrim is either less moddable than past games or unmoddable? Because that's not true at all.

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okay I effing hated Oblivion,

but Skyrim is pretty rad so far (4 hours). very nice interface. mouse is effed up in menus but WASD+E is way better and faster for menus anyway. I like the Q favorites-menu a lot. I read online that you actually can create hotkeys for 1-8 via the favorites menu, but I'm not sure I'll actually ever bother!

just killed my first dragon!

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I just had an epic battle with a frost spewing dragon in a village. I walked into town at night and I saw the shadow of it pass over the road between the buildings. NPC's were running about... guards shooting arrows into the sky. I hadn't saved the game in a bit so I jumped into the local tavern and saved my game. I went back outside and it was still there, so I fired arrows at it. It landed on the top of a building and spewed frost on a guard and then it flew into the air. Dude was on his hands and knees on the frost covered ground. lol. I finally killed the bugger with my sword when it landed on the street. Ahhh that was too fukken cool.

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Biggest issue I have with skyrim is the interface... or lack thereof.

Would've been easy to live with if just the favorited items and spells were bindable to keys. Now switching between bows and two axes is fucking annoying. Switching from bow to potions is even worse. And switching from two weapons to one spell and one weapon to a bow to go back to two weapons is annoying as hell. Everytime you have to go through these stupid menus to do these really mundane tasks.

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kristus said:

Biggest issue I have with skyrim is the interface... or lack thereof.

Would've been easy to live with if just the favorited items and spells were bindable to keys. Now switching between bows and two axes is fucking annoying. Switching from bow to potions is even worse. And switching from two weapons to one spell and one weapon to a bow to go back to two weapons is annoying as hell. Everytime you have to go through these stupid menus to do these really mundane tasks.


Yeah that's really been bothering me too. It's especially annoying if you're going with a character that uses dual weapons

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kristus said:

Biggest issue I have with skyrim is the interface... or lack thereof.

Would've been easy to live with if just the favorited items and spells were bindable to keys. Now switching between bows and two axes is fucking annoying. Switching from bow to potions is even worse. And switching from two weapons to one spell and one weapon to a bow to go back to two weapons is annoying as hell. Everytime you have to go through these stupid menus to do these really mundane tasks.


Go into your favorites menu and then hover your mouse over a weapon, then press the number key you want it assigned to.

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