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Trolls will troll

I can't make up my mind whether this guy is trolling like no troll ever trolled before or, on the other hand, whether he is completely and utterly insane :O

God help him when Anonymous find out :P

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A troll? Nah. Someone whose reasonable - if controversial - point of view is shrouded in hysterical rhetoric? Yes.

Cats kill birds, he's right about that. Cats apparently kill things for fun, he seems to be right about that too. There's also no reason not to believe him when he says native and endangered species of birds are being wiped out thanks, in part, to cats, given we're talking about the small nation of New Zealand. But he also fails to elaborate on other factors that might have a lot or more influence on the decline in bird populations, besides kitty going on a killing spree.

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What's your context here? Do you live in a place like Australia or New Zealand where native animals are easily killed by introduced species because they can't defend themselves? It's an issue where I live and it right fucks me off when owners are ignorant, or worse, don't give a shit.

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Let me know if he starts wearing a cat as a hat. By and large I agree with Morgan, if there wasn't a cat in every second household they'd be a lot more wildlife in my neighborhood.

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I think exterminating cats would, if the guy is serious, be an extreme over reaction. We keep all of our 5 cats indoors anyway now, but when we had outdoor cats, we put bell collars on to stop them catching stuff - it worked.

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MartinHowe said:

we put bell collars on to stop them catching stuff - it worked.


What worked? Driving you crazy with their noise? :-p

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It probably alerted animals before they were attacked.

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40oz said:

It probably alerted animals before they were attacked.


AND it drove their masters crazy because they had to sit around them all day ;-)

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When they're kittens, maybe, but as they grow older cats spend more and more time just sleeping curled up in a warm place.

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Gez said:

When they're kittens, maybe, but as they grow older cats spend more and more time just sleeping curled up in a warm place.

Depending on where you live that may be true. But unless your feline is in it's 40's, cats love being outside and love to go hunting for things, whenever these opportunities present themselves.

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Looks like an overreaction but it seems pretty well-reasoned.

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MartinHowe said:

I think exterminating cats would, if the guy is serious, be an extreme over reaction. We keep all of our 5 cats indoors anyway now, but when we had outdoor cats, we put bell collars on to stop them catching stuff - it worked.

Did youeven read the site you claim to have read? He doesn't say that though. He says, don't replace the cat once you lost your old. Besides, people drown kittens all the time to get rid of cats. They breeds like rats and bunnies.

http://garethsworld.com/catstogo/#section-n4 - this is what they ask you to do. The eradication facility might sound like a bit of an overreach. But it's not like it's something we don't already have for dogs for instance.

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The truth is that there are far too many pet (or stray) cats and dogs in the Western world -certainly, an important economic factor, before even starting to consider where they shit, what they eat, what effect they have on the environment and the cities etc.

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fraggle said:

but it seems pretty well-reasoned.

Then someone make NEDM 2 please.

Also fucking stop exterminating stray dogs if you feel that cats are overpopulating and affecting the ecosystem. Why exterminate more, when you can exterminate less? Not all dogs bite humans, you know. Dogs scare away cats.

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Gez said:

When they're kittens, maybe, but as they grow older cats spend more and more time just sleeping curled up in a warm place.

Indeed. I have the valid personal evidence to confirm this statement.
I've been living with a cat since 1998. When she was 2 years old she had a few moments where she randomly dashed across the living room and pretended to chase after some imaginary mice. But now she is 15 years old and the only things she does are: sleeping on a blanket in the basement, eating special diet food out of a bowl, and disposing biological waste into a little box which I wash every night.
...What a menace to ecosystems, eh? :p

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There was a fully grown cat from one of the neighbours, I think about 6 years old, that was hiding in the bushes near my avairy today. I scared it off when I was watering. anmecdotal evadance hurr

edit: For added retail value, in terms of cuteness, cats haven't got shit on the native wildlife in my area that they hunt.

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Maes said:

The truth is that there are far too many pet (or stray) cats and dogs in the Western world


In places where they aren't native and therefore cause a problem to native wildlife, such as Australia-New Zealand, sure; but in places with native cats such as Europe, I don't think it's an issue. We can certainly do with less rats and pigeons.

The last time there were great campaigns of cat extermination in Europe was during the Middle Age (out of superstitious bullshit). The result was a catastrophic outbreak of bubonic plague (transmitted by rat fleas) which claimed nearly two third of the population.

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Why be so black and white about things like this? Keep the damn cats inside. They tend to live healthier lives when they don't have anything to fight bigger than bugs. Getting them fixed helps a bunch too. There aren't so many stray cats where I live anymore.

It seems in North America nobody worries too much about what cats kill, though. The little birds aren't endangered and the big ones scare the shit out of cats. No, we regulate cat ownership heavily because whining assholes complain about cats in their gardens.

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Gez said:

The last time there were great campaigns of cat extermination in Europe was during the Middle Age (out of superstitious bullshit). The result was a catastrophic outbreak of bubonic plague (transmitted by rat fleas) which claimed nearly two third of the population.

Well, there are too many humnans on the planet too... ;)

Aliotroph? said:

It seems in North America nobody worries too much about what cats kill, though.

Or what guns kill either according to some people in the 1776 thread. Ooooh, raw nerve. :P

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There have historically been wild cat species in north America rampaging around, so domestic cats aren't as big an issue as in New Zealand/etc.

I definitely support cat owners keeping their cats inside or limiting pet ownership in such sensitive areas, the wildlife is significantly more important than the freedom of our pets.


EDIT: Oh, we're going into humans as a pest too, heh. I'd say, we need a worldwide one-child policy, or two-child at the most, to curb this alarming exponential growth. Or maybe some extensive spaying and neutering...

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phi108 said:

Oh, we're going into humans as a pest too, heh. I'd say, we need a worldwide one-child policy, or two-child at the most, to curb this alarming exponential growth. Or maybe some extensive spaying and neutering...

A full-blown global pandemic would help, or a nuclear winter. BRING ON THE APOCALYPSE!

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New Zealand is the last refuge of a huge range of bird species, we’re famous for our claim to be clean and green, and some of us have recognised the huge economic benefit, let alone the ecological dividend, from achieving a Predator Free New Zealand.


Better pack your things and catch a one-way flight to the sun.

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Csonicgo said:

Better pack your things and catch a one-way flight to the sun.


Just make sure you do it at night. :)

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While we're at it lets stop breeding and eradicate ourselves too, but then again that's what AIDs is for? Seriously, there are ways to preserve endangered animals like opening up shelters that breed and reintroduce them back into the environment... if less money went into millionaire politicians bank accounts and more went into solving environmental problems.

When we get a cat we make sure to get one out of a non profit cat home that saves cats and not from cat breeders, if any "population control" had to happen I'd agree it'd have to start with banning cat breeding, which IMO in itself is cruelty to animals. Calling someone ignorant for wanting to own a cat is quite ignorant in itself.

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No, it isn't ignorant to want to own a cat. It's ignorant to have an outdoor cat without understanding any potential consequences.

DeathevokatioN said:

Seriously, there are ways to preserve endangered animals like opening up shelters that breed and reintroduce them back into the environment...


Yes, let the native wildlife be hunted and we'll keep feeding in more animals for those that kill them.

edit: I'll add an actual answer now. It should be fairly obvious that such places already exist (they do in my area at least), and that they're fighting a constant battle. Getting rid of a problem is going to be a lot more effective and less costly than working around it.

if less money went into millionaire politicians bank accounts and more went into solving environmental problems.


wut

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Khorus said:

wut

We pay taxes right? Obama's worth went up to $15m since he's been elected, our own "president" is a billionaire that has one of the most (if not the most like some sources have suggested) expensive houses in the world which is ironically neighbored by shacks, if some of that money went back into investing more into saving endangered species there would be more room for a middle ground, you can't expect people to stop owning cats, or prohibiting them from going outdoors entirely since cats are outdoor creatures, locking them up would be almost like locking up a bird in a cage... but for instance cats kill most of their prey during night, educating people to keep their cats indoors during night time would be reasonable, and as I've already said people who breed cats for profit are definitely part of the problem, and if I recall correctly this is outlawed in parts of the States and if you did that over there it would go a long way towards helping solve the problem.

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dude, focus on new zealand, not obama or south africa. it's a very fragile ecosystem and cats are crafty predators alien to this environment. they butcher helpless species and for those pulling themselves up by their bootstraps just isn't an option. not saying cat holocaust is the best course of action, but "i dunno, shelters?" isn't a viable solution either. i'd say the guy is probably raising awareness with some shock tactics.

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DeathevokatioN said:

We pay taxes right? Obama's worth went up to $15m since he's been elected, our own "president" is a billionaire

15 million does not a billion make. Also, you certainly show where you're coming from when you put quotation marks around the word president when you refer to Obama.

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kristus said:

15 million does not a billion make. Also, you certainly show where you're coming from when you put quotation marks around the word president when you refer to Obama.

i think he refers to the president of south africa. it shows where he's coming from nonetheless.

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