First GMO babies born.

"abovetopsecret.com" in a forum called "General Conspiracies". Seems like a legit source.

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How about an actual article and not a blurb on some crackpot conspiracy website?

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I get more worked up from the masses that cry foul whenever GMO is brought up than what GMO can offer.

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Indeed, how about the actual article? How can anyone on that site take those blurbs seriously when there's no confirmation of where it came from?

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buttspit said:

I get more worked up from the masses that cry foul whenever GMO is brought up than what GMO can offer.


THIS. Jesus christ this topic really brings the idiots out of the woodwork.

Also, pretty sure we've been doing genetic manipulation for quite a while now; choosing baby's eye color, etc.

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Scet said:

How about an actual article and not a blurb on some crackpot conspiracy website?

Here you go - direct from that bastion of journalistic credibility, the Daily Mail.

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If the article is accurate (stupid Daily Mail) then this is pretty neat. It sounds as if the eggs may contain mitochondria from both mothers. I don't have nearly enough knowledge of biology to speculate on what effect that might have.

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The babies were born to women who had problems conceiving. Extra genes from a female donor were inserted into their eggs before they were fertilised in an attempt to enable them to conceive.


Hardly sounds like the evil mutant clone army that abovetopsecret.com is going on about.

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printz said:

What is this GMO you speak of?

Best guess.

Anyway, the smell of bullshit here is so pungent it could render you unconscious.

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Nice. If they can't do human cloning, at least they should be able to do this.

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neubejiita said:

How soon until we have genetically engineered Ultramarines to fight the Xenos in some future war?

A few ten thousand years. In the meantime, we need moar dakka.

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oh shit clones what are we gonna do





go science




Though granted, actual cloning I think would be something rather interesting.

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Clonehunter said:

Though granted, actual cloning I think would be something rather interesting.

Why? Clones aren't rare in nature, or for humans, even.

Now if we're talking about duplicating somebodies brain patterns, maybe...

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I fail to see what is wrong with creating more stronger humans with genetic tampering.

I hate it whenever people use that horrible "but the Nazis wanted this also, so its bad" crap. The Nazis wanted a lot of things, like laws that banned animal abuse and awerness campaigns against the dangers of smoking. Simply pointing out that the nazis did something doesn't automatically make it evil.

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Oh yeah, GMO rocks cos genetically modified crops are doing sooooo well for us *cough*dyingbees?*cough*. Consider me a skeptic here, I'm against it for ethical reasons, the fact that I don't like science going beyond its boundaries particularly to accommodate business/economic needs rather than our needs (although that is quite a blurred line), and particularly as a Deaf person who is totally comfortable with his own 'disability' despite its inherent difficulties, (which has helped me harden against life's follies and existential crises) and would rather see the deaf community (and humanity in general) naturally thrive.

If I had to put it in a layman's term, I'd say, have a root, and raise what you've got. Go natural dudes!

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Joshy said:

Oh yeah, GMO rocks cos genetically modified crops are doing sooooo well for us *cough*dyingbees?*cough*. Consider me a skeptic here, I'm against it for ethical reasons, the fact that I don't like science going beyond its boundaries particularly to accommodate business/economic needs rather than our needs (although that is quite a blurred line), and particularly as a Deaf person who is totally comfortable with his own 'disability' despite its inherent difficulties, (which has helped me harden against life's follies and existential crises) and would rather see the deaf community (and humanity in general) naturally thrive.

If I had to put it in a layman's term, I'd say, have a root, and raise what you've got. Go natural dudes!


I really hate this bullshit about there being such a thing as a "natural" and a "un-natural life".

Naturality is a socially created construct. There is no such thing in actual nature. I mean life existing at all in the first place is because of un-natural things happening. Originally there were no people or animals, but then because of some freak mutations life evolved into new species and then humans. There is no such thing as natural anything when it comes to living things. We are all the result of some mutation that made us different from earlier generations of life.

I personally find the general notion that there is such thing as "science going beyond its boundaries" to be nothing but the non-sensical crying of people who just aren't comfortable with any kinds of change happening. "Science is evil" is something that only belongs in the minds of religious fundimentalists and nowhere else.

If future generations of humans can benefit from genetic tampering, then there isn't any good reason for why we should not do this. It honestly makes me want to kill myself when I hear someone claim that they would rather have their children be born with some horrible decease or handicap rather then have their genes tampered with because they would rather have sick but "natural" children rather then healthy but "un-natural" children.

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hardcore_gamer said:

I really hate this bullshit about there being such a thing as a "natural" and a "un-natural life".

You're splitting hairs with the semantics of naturalness. Wow it's a social construct, duh, but that's not the point. It is bleeding obvious that genetically modified crops is not ideal. And yes, not everything is natural, but we have to live with it. I'm saying don't push it any further. There are mutations obviously, but GMO is NOT mutation. Darwin would be rolling in his grave. And just because I am against GMO does not mean I am against science. That's a horrible inference dude.

I'm really braindead right now, and was only wanting to share my opinion. But I'll say this: I'd suggest you actually contemplate about the actual issues at hand before you say anything; you spurt out a lot of silly naive generalisations and counterproductive comments. I'd make sure you wouldn't be studying ethics, and I don't mean that as an insult.

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Joshy said:

[I] would rather see the deaf community (and humanity in general) naturally thrive.

You're not making the reasoning behind your views particularly clear.

Do you wear a hearing aid? If yes, then science was behind that. Nature* had nothing to do with it, and it's not going to be able to repair an irreversibly damaged eardrum by itself any time soon (or whatever misfortune was behind your "disability"). While it's wonderful that something so obviously detrimental to life as deafness doesn't appear to have affected you too negatively, I could see how it's easy for people to get the impression that you're being anti-science when you pontificate the superiority of pure resolve and nature's capabilities over science's helping hand.


*What constitutes something being natural is an interesting question. You could argue that everything in the world that's man-made is natural, whether it's good or bad for the environment around it, because purely biological forces were originally behind it. You can't have a watch, a car, a computer, an oil refinery, or indeed a hearing aid without someone's brain and hands organising its design and manufacture. What will become of this idea when we have man-made clones of ourselves making things, I don't know ;)

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Joshy said:

Oh yeah, GMO rocks cos genetically modified crops are doing sooooo well for us *cough*dyingbees?*cough*.

Dying bees aren't because of genetically modified crops. But predominantly because of the pesticides that has been used around the world.

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DoomUK said:

You're not making the reasoning behind your views particularly clear.

Do you wear a hearing aid? If yes, then science was behind that. Nature* had nothing to do with it, and it's not going to be able to repair an irreversibly damaged eardrum by itself any time soon (or whatever misfortune was behind your "disability"). While it's wonderful that something so obviously detrimental to life as deafness doesn't appear to have affected you too negatively, I could see how it's easy for people to get the impression that you're being anti-science when you pontificate the benefits of pure resolve and nature's capabilities over science's helping hand.

I didn't say anywhere that I refute science wholly, just to be clear in general. I dislike Plato but I like philosophy. If it's reasonable and the motivations are within ethical considerations, I don't see why not.

I can understand why people would be baffled when I advocate for the deaf community. I do wear hearing aids, but my reason for wanting to see the Deaf community flourish is not motivated by anti-science, but a way of accepting difference. Science can be used rather inhumanely especially when there is no consideration of the implications, such as possible diseases, pollution, etc, etc. For the Deaf, it's basically ethnicide, when people cannot see the upside in sign language and a healthy minority community that is naturally occurring, and rather them to speak and hear. Why mess with it? To satisfy the need to cure everyone, for everyone to become superbabies? It's no different to assimilating Australian Aborigines into a Western society that is completely incompatible with their beliefs. At the moment, their community is just shattered and confused.

Say hypothetically, the Deaf community doesn't exist. There would be no domain for natural language embodiment for deaf babies. No fucking way I'm learning philosophy by lip-reading, let alone babies attempting to learn through forced cultural/scientific values. To be quite frank, I wouldn't care less if my hearing aids broke. I'd still turn out the same provided I can embody a rich language naturally, and learn English alongside. When science (and/or ignorant idiots) threatens that naturally occurring cultural phenomenon, it really grates my backside. Obviously I plan on writing more about this topic as it is very relevant to a lot of issues currently around the world, but I don't think a gaming forum would be a good place for it. :P

To clarify my thoughts: GMO is definitely something quite farfetched, and we haven't exactly seen the benefits of genetically modified crops nor long term consequences (so far, it isn't sounding too good); I can't see how genetically modified babies are going to be any better. Indeed you could propose a teleological argument that we are meant to develop technology/science to bypass our disadvantage of not having teeth and claws to survive. But we've progressed far enough to be able to know when to draw the line, to start questioning what may happen in terms of ethics, to consider all variables (especially the environment) and if it is worth the investment in the long run. Who knows, GMO babies and clones could turn into zombies and threaten the existence of the human race before any meteors could have to chance to do so. :P

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kristus said:

Dying bees aren't because of genetically modified crops. But predominantly because of the pesticides that has been used around the world.

Don't mean to be argumentative, but from what I've read around the place, it has also been said GMO is affecting bees as well, although I'm not sure if that has been properly refuted. It's hard to tell, it's all correlations from what I see.

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Joshy said:

For the Deaf, it's basically ethnicide, when people cannot see the upside in sign language and a healthy minority community that is naturally occurring, and rather them to speak and hear. Why mess with it? To satisfy the need to cure everyone, for everyone to become superbabies?

You make a reasonable case with the language argument, but the usefulness of being able to hear isn't limited to conversation, is it? There's sensible reasons why nature at least intends us to be able to hear what's going on around us, even if it screws up on occasion. I don't recommend you take your hearing aids off and walk into a hazardous environment as an experiment, even if you can use your eyes to see what dangers are directly in front of you.

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Joshy said:

Don't mean to be argumentative, but from what I've read around the place, it has also been said GMO is affecting bees as well, although I'm not sure if that has been properly refuted. It's hard to tell, it's all correlations from what I see.

Would be nice if you could be more specific of what you are talking about there as EVERYTHING we grow and eat has been genetically modified. It's really easy to do, you don't need a lab to do it. You just perform directed evolution where you choose the strands you prefer to propagate. Humans has been doing this ever since they first started farming. Even if it was unwittingly at the time they directed the evolution of their livestock and grain by picking the ones more suited for their needs.

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DoomUK said:

You make a reasonable case with the language argument, but the usefulness of being able to hear isn't limited to conversation, is it? There's sensible reasons why nature at least intends us to be able to hear what's going on around us. I don't recommend you take your hearing aids off and walk into a hazardous environment as an experiment, even if you can use your eyes to see what dangers are directly in front of you.

I understand why you query this. Indeed, it's not just limited to conversations, although it is the main problem in our society for the time being.

I can list a few non-language things though. It's been known that deaf people are actually better drivers. We're much more visually in tune to our surroundings and notice a lot of things people seem to miss. Better yet, not everyone is deaf, so we can always take note in how people around us respond, which we can respond to easily. I could go on, these are known traits proudly embraced by the community, but I can't say it's easy to prove it scientifically! Simply put, we don't have our hearing to take for granted, so we make up for it with extra alertness and precise perceptions. It's not like we would just wander into a factory and put ourselves into grinding machineries :P. Our behaviour and survival comes with practice, proper guidance/parenting, and unrestricted usage of our bodies, to practice orientating ourselves to the world. It's like girls throwing like girls. They do that due to lack of practice; it's not a biological phenomenon. And we can't really know what nature 'intended' for us to do, guess that's why we're discussing GMO babies then. :)

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kristus said:

Would be nice if you could be more specific of what you are talking about there as EVERYTHING we grow and eat has been genetically modified. It's really easy to do, you don't need a lab to do it. You just perform directed evolution where you choose the strands you prefer to propagate. Humans has been doing this ever since they first started farming. Even if it was unwittingly at the time they directed the evolution of their livestock and grain by picking the ones more suited for their needs.

True that, a lot of food are already GM, totally slipped my mind! I am thinking particularly the soyabeans that have been heavily modified, not the kind that involves picking out a particular strand and planting it. I think this this documentary (hoping it's the right one) that would better pinpoint my concerns.

Maybe a better example I am more familiar with would be hybrid seeds compared to organic seeds. You cannot regrow using hybrid seeds while an organic seed can continuously regrow. A seed that is modified to be infertile after one use... We don't know what happens if we keep creating hybrid seeds, nor what it does to our bodies. Not a comforting thought.

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